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dshawfan

Question for Utah/TCU fans

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As both schools, in the not too distant past, were one of us, I was just wondering your thoughts on the G5.

Do you want us to go away and form our own "division" and just leave you guys alone?

Do you think any of us ever get an invite to the big boys table, or is the club full?

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In general, I don't dislike the G5.  I didn't really like having TCU in the MWC because I thought a lot of the MWC programs were noncompetitive.  There was never a time where TCU could have been in jeopardy of missing a bowl game.  I do know that TCU had to really get better in recruiting to get enough depth to compete in the Big 12.  I don't think that the G5 needs to go form their own division, but it has always been my belief that everybody should be competing for conference titles because that is something you can control.  When TCU won their first Big 12 title, I didn't care that they didn't make the playoff.  We pounded Ole Miss in the Peach Bowl and still ended up with a high ranking.  This year, I didn't care that if we beat Oklahoma in the Big 12 title game that we wouldn't be going to the playoffs.  It seems to me like the G5 schools just put too much emphasis on making the Access Bowl.  It sure seems to diminish your conference championship if you don't get it.  It should really be all about beating your conference mates for a title.  The rest of the games are just exhibitions.

As far as an invite goes, I don't think they will be adding any conferences any time soon.  I don't know if the club is full, but I do know that there just aren't too many teams willing to compete at that level anyway.  Even when TCU was in the MWC, our athletic budget was bigger than Baylor, Texas Tech and many others.  I don't see many G5 schools willing to make that kind of commitment.  TCU did because their alumni were willing to fund it.  I don't see the same type of alumni support at other G5 programs.  I have always believed that people that really like athletics tend to gravitate towards the power conference schools for college.  They want to go to a college where football on Saturdays is a really big deal.  I had two friends in high school that went to the University of Alabama for college and neither of them had ever been on campus before they moved in for classes Freshman year.  That was the type of experience they were looking for in their college. It just doesn't seem to be too important to most G5 students.

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22 minutes ago, masterfrog said:

That was the type of experience they were looking for in their college. It just doesn't seem to be too important to most G5 students.

?? G5 Students ??  oh man that is rich. 

The friends I have that went to Pitt just couldn't wait for football on Saturdays ?

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4 hours ago, dshawfan said:

As both schools, in the not too distant past, were one of us, I was just wondering your thoughts on the G5.

Do you want us to go away and form our own "division" and just leave you guys alone?

Do you think any of us ever get an invite to the big boys table, or is the club full?

I love western football.. With most of the power and population in the east, it's critical that we have as many teams in the national spotlight and performing as possible.  The P12 falling on their face this year is a perfect example of needing to do better.. Teams like UCF this year prove why there needs to be inclusion. Not to mention, Boise, Utah and TCU in the past on the big stage..

I do think programs in the MWC need to step up their game. SJSU for example has no excuse to fail.. In an area with billions of dollars, the fact that they run their program like a 3rd world country is pathetic.

As far as invites to the P5, I don't think the door is closed.. If there is another power shift or yard sale, it will move fast..  I'm 100% confident that the P12 won't be doing anything until their next TV contract or if the P5 world gets shaken up... Facilities, attendance, coaching, boosters, leadership and commitment should be at the top of all program's list.

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3 hours ago, dshawfan said:

As both schools, in the not too distant past, were one of us, I was just wondering your thoughts on the G5.

Do you want us to go away and form our own "division" and just leave you guys alone?

Do you think any of us ever get an invite to the big boys table, or is the club full?

No

Yes

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3 hours ago, dshawfan said:

As both schools, in the not too distant past, were one of us, I was just wondering your thoughts on the G5.

Do you want us to go away and form our own "division" and just leave you guys alone?

Do you think any of us ever get an invite to the big boys table, or is the club full?

I don't think G5 should go away, but there are some G5 programs that should probably be relegated to FCS.

If G5 teams want to play and compete at D1 level, there needs to be a minimum standard for investment in the programs in terms of coaching, facilities and fan support, all which take a sizable  financial investment. For schools unwilling or unable to make that type of investment, going down to FCS or quitting football altogether is probably best for all involved.

For the G5 teams that are willing and able to make the investment, the football can be a good product and the better teams can be competitive in limited play vs. P5 teams. The G5 teams don't have the depth to go through a P5 schedule ( I know Utah didn't when they first entered the Pac ), but should be able to compete in the one or two OOC and bowl games they play vs. the P5 schools.

I'm a desperate man
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The shit has hit the fan

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18 minutes ago, Bob said:

Maybe some of the TV dollars should be shared? It's pretty easy to invest millions when you're given millions to work with

Maybe.. But we all know the P5 isn't going to slice the cake any thinner.. The fact that G5's have a guaranteed NY6 bowl is about as good as it is going to get..  G5 programs must invest from within.. Utah for example wasn't getting millions from TV money when they started overhauling their facilities back in 2003.. Boosters like Spence Eccles stepped in and saw the future..

Each conference dictates their own value and market share of their TV contact anyways.. If ESPN or Fox sees value in something, they won't hesitate to pull the trigger.

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7 minutes ago, utenation said:

 Boosters like Spence Eccles stepped in and saw the future..

Don't know if Spence "Nostradamus'd" the invite, but Utah was definitely prepared when opportunity luckily knocked.  I think other programs have done or are doing the same, but that Golden Ticket may never appear!

I actually think the P5 will eventually contract.  Let's face it, there are probably only a couple of handfuls of true "Power" programs...Ohio State, Texas, Notre Dame, USC, 'Bama and the next level of the Washington's, Oklahoma's, Wisconsin's, etc. down the line.

At some point, the truly big program's insatiable greed will make them take a look at the Oregon State's, Kansas', Duke's and Maryland's of the football world and want to get "paid for what they bring to the table/deserve".  And it wouldn't shock me to see them eat their own at some point, especially as the broadcast rights money machine continues to go in the wrong direction.

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5 minutes ago, SparkysDad said:

Don't know if Spence "Nostradamus'd" the invite, but Utah was definitely prepared when opportunity luckily knocked.  I think other programs have done or are doing the same, but that Golden Ticket may never appear!

I actually think the P5 will eventually contract.  Let's face it, there are probably only a couple of handfuls of true "Power" programs...Ohio State, Texas, Notre Dame, USC, 'Bama and the next level of the Washington's, Oklahoma's, Wisconsin's, etc. down the line.

At some point, the truly big program's insatiable greed will make them take a look at the Oregon State's, Kansas', Duke's and Maryland's of the football world and want to get "paid for what they bring to the table/deserve".  And it wouldn't shock me to see them eat their own at some point, especially as the broadcast rights money machine continues to go in the wrong direction.

That's why you should be growing your budget each year and paying coaches... Utah spends about $25 million on football per year... Top half of our conference and top 40 nationwide... Which is amazing considering our entire budget was around $36 million about 7 years ago..

I don't think bluebloods will cannibalize the other P5's.. Just demand more of the pie..

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1 minute ago, Bob said:

The Olympics played a big role in this, no?

Absolutely not.. The Olympic committee gave about $11 million dollars to help expand RES which was a $50 million dollar project at the time..  That was in 1997. Most of the project was bonds and donations. They also didn't do anything with our other facilities..

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1 minute ago, utenation said:

That's why you should be growing your budget each year and paying coaches... Utah spends about $25 million on football per year... Top half of our conference and top 40 nationwide... Which is amazing considering our entire budget was around $36 million about 7 years ago..

I don't think bluebloods will cannibalize the other P5's.. Just demand more of the pie..

That's great if you get the ultimate Return on Investment, but IIRC, Houston spent a boatload of money the past 3-4 years and are still in the AAC and still losing coaches.  Same for Boise State (but with expenditures at a much lower level than Houston).

Risky business!

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19 minutes ago, SparkysDad said:

Don't know if Spence "Nostradamus'd" the invite, but Utah was definitely prepared when opportunity luckily knocked.  I think other programs have done or are doing the same, but that Golden Ticket may never appear!

I actually think the P5 will eventually contract.  Let's face it, there are probably only a couple of handfuls of true "Power" programs...Ohio State, Texas, Notre Dame, USC, 'Bama and the next level of the Washington's, Oklahoma's, Wisconsin's, etc. down the line.

At some point, the truly big program's insatiable greed will make them take a look at the Oregon State's, Kansas', Duke's and Maryland's of the football world and want to get "paid for what they bring to the table/deserve".  And it wouldn't shock me to see them eat their own at some point, especially as the broadcast rights money machine continues to go in the wrong direction.

Disagree.  Not every school thinks like Texas or Notre Dame.  Big Ten culture is pretty stable.  Michigan or Ohio State could have very easily broken off from the BTN and did a Wolverine or Buckeye channel with Fox or ESPN.  The fact that they didn't and went all-in on the concept of the BTN and fully equal shares of media and bowl money says that there is something fundamentally different in how they view their conference than how Texas does its.  Not to mention the Big Ten academic consortium and the amount of research dollars they are pulling in utterly dwarfs the foosball money.

SteelCityBlue

November 24th, 2018 at 9:10 PM ^

I'm looking forward to a new head coach who isn't a cud-chewing autistic retard.

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8 minutes ago, SparkysDad said:

That's great if you get the ultimate Return on Investment, but IIRC, Houston spent a boatload of money the past 3-4 years and are still in the AAC and still losing coaches.  Same for Boise State (but with expenditures at a much lower level than Houston).

Risky business!

Cincinnati is a poster child for wasting tens of millions they didn't have chasing a P5 spot that never came.

SteelCityBlue

November 24th, 2018 at 9:10 PM ^

I'm looking forward to a new head coach who isn't a cud-chewing autistic retard.

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38 minutes ago, SparkysDad said:

That's great if you get the ultimate Return on Investment, but IIRC, Houston spent a boatload of money the past 3-4 years and are still in the AAC and still losing coaches.  Same for Boise State (but with expenditures at a much lower level than Houston).

Risky business!

Granted, some of it is luck and timing.. But I think every program should have a pretty clean and efficient athletic department. Grow smartly essentially. If the time comes for the phone call, you don't want to be caught napping in a dirty house..

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There's only one Power conference in college football, and that's the SEC. The rest are pretender Power conferences with schools like Oregon St, Utah, Iowa St, Minnesota and Kansas which will pull down their credibility for years to come.

Disclaimer: Any views or opinions presented by this poster (Warbow) are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Univesity of Hawaii or it's loyal fans. All quotes and opinions from Warbow are valid for 30 days following the date of post transmission and are subject to change at any time. All information published herein by Warbow is gathered from his own opinions or sources which are thought to be reliable, but the reader should not assume that the information is official or fact.

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Just now, Warbow said:

There's only one Power conference in college football, and that's the SEC. The rest are pretender Power conferences with schools like Oregon St, Utah, Iowa St, Minnesota and Kansas which will pull down their credibility for years to come.

SEC East has been garbage for years.  UGA broke through this year, but the rest of that division is still bad. A&M, Arkie and at least one of the Mississippi schools are usually mediocre at best.  The SEC is built upon the machine Saban has built at Bama. The rest is ESPN hype and spin. 

SteelCityBlue

November 24th, 2018 at 9:10 PM ^

I'm looking forward to a new head coach who isn't a cud-chewing autistic retard.

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19 minutes ago, Warbow said:

There's only one Power conference in college football, and that's the SEC. The rest are pretender Power conferences with schools like Oregon St, Utah, Iowa St, Minnesota and Kansas which will pull down their credibility for years to come.

That's cute coming from a Hawaii fan, but Utah has lost exactly one OOC game since joining the Pac, so they are not dragging anything down for the conference. 

I'm a desperate man
Send lawyers, guns, and money
The shit has hit the fan

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Very few G5 programs have a sugar daddy that can throw millions towards upgrading facilities and other football expenses.  Memphis, Houston, UCF, and Cincy are schools that have and spent a lot of sugar daddy money but are still in a G5 conference. 

Being in a p5 doesn't automatically elevate your program either, I think Utah was tougher when then were in the MWC than they are now. TCU has improved but they're located in the middle of greatest HS recruiting area in the nation. The question for TCU is will they ever take that next step to win a natty?

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6 minutes ago, Lobo Amor said:

Very few G5 programs have a sugar daddy that can throw millions towards upgrading facilities and other football expenses.  Memphis, Houston, UCF, and Cincy are schools that have and spent a lot of sugar daddy money but are still in a G5 conference. 

Being in a p5 doesn't automatically elevate your program either, I think Utah was tougher when then were in the MWC than they are now. TCU has improved but they're located in the middle of greatest HS recruiting area in the nation. The question for TCU is will they ever take that next step to win a natty?

I agree, a school like Utah actually hurt their on field performance by joining a so called power conference. It doesn't help recruiting like most people may think. It actually hurt Utah's recruiting now that they are going up against the bigger and better schools like USC and Washington going for the elite recruits when they use to win battles against G-5 schools for the mid level recruits.

Disclaimer: Any views or opinions presented by this poster (Warbow) are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Univesity of Hawaii or it's loyal fans. All quotes and opinions from Warbow are valid for 30 days following the date of post transmission and are subject to change at any time. All information published herein by Warbow is gathered from his own opinions or sources which are thought to be reliable, but the reader should not assume that the information is official or fact.

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