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sebasour

White Nationalist Rally in Virginia

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58 minutes ago, roswellcoug said:

The real question is what would Jefferson have done had he lived during the Recent Unpleasantness instead of dying in 1826? No one knows. 

But he was a slave owner. So being a traitor like Lee was more odious than being a slave owner like Jefferson. 

When looked through a lens of moral relativity, all of our leaders have faults that can be explained away.

No, the real question is what they actually did in their lives.

We choose to memorialize those who helped create our country and not those who fought to secede from it. I don't know why this is so difficult for some to grasp.

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This is really hitting close to home now, literally. 

There's a group of armed White Supremacists marching in downtown Durham right now, about six miles away from my house. Companies and local government have sent their employees home. I have a number of friends that work within a few blocks of this shit, and even more that work within a two mile radius. 

I'm going to be sick. 

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49 minutes ago, retrofade said:

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While Jefferson certainly wasn't perfect, he actually believed in Emancipation, albeit gradual. He did believe that blacks were inferior, which isn't acceptable in today's society, and as such he believed in a full-scale deportation of all former slaves to Africa if he had been able to succeed in his stated goal of complete emancipation. He was also able to ban the slave trade to Virginia, and he later signed legislation making the slave trade illegal in the United States. So while you can excoriate Jefferson for owning slaves, you can't argue that he wasn't doing everything in his power to work towards ending slavery in the United States. 

 

2 minutes ago, Mano said:

No, the real question is what they actually did in their lives.

We choose to memorialize those who helped create our country and not those who fought to secede from it. I don't know why this is so difficult for some to grasp.

Maybe Jefferson wasn't the benevolent person everyone idolizes...

But in the 1790s, Davis continues, “the most remarkable thing about Jefferson’s stand on slavery is his immense silence.” And later, Davis finds, Jefferson’s emancipation efforts “virtually ceased.”

The Virginia abolitionist Moncure Conway, noting Jefferson’s enduring reputation as a would-be emancipator, remarked scornfully, “Never did a man achieve more fame for what he did not do.”

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-dark-side-of-thomas-jefferson-35976004/?no-ist=&=&=&preview=_page%3D2_no-ist&page=1

 

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2 minutes ago, roswellcoug said:

 

Maybe Jefferson wasn't the benevolent person everyone idolizes...

But in the 1790s, Davis continues, “the most remarkable thing about Jefferson’s stand on slavery is his immense silence.” And later, Davis finds, Jefferson’s emancipation efforts “virtually ceased.”

The Virginia abolitionist Moncure Conway, noting Jefferson’s enduring reputation as a would-be emancipator, remarked scornfully, “Never did a man achieve more fame for what he did not do.”

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-dark-side-of-thomas-jefferson-35976004/?no-ist=&=&=&preview=_page%3D2_no-ist&page=1

 

Except that none of that is true. Go do some research on Jefferson, and then get back to me. 

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14 minutes ago, retrofade said:

This is really hitting close to home now, literally. 

There's a group of armed White Supremacists marching in downtown Durham right now, about six miles away from my house. Companies and local government have sent their employees home. I have a number of friends that work within a few blocks of this shit, and even more that work within a two mile radius. 

I'm going to be sick. 

So sad to hear that... Wishing you and yours the best, hope everyone stays safe.

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Just now, SFtoVA said:

So sad to hear that... Wishing you and yours the best, hope everyone stays safe.

A shitton of counter-protesters showed up and shut them down. There's rumor that the KKK/Nazis are going to start up again at 5 though. 

I just got confirmation that all of my friends in the immediate area have gotten home safely. The other friends all work at Duke, so they're probably pretty safe. 

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This is what I posted to a friend on Facebook who posted a video of someone trying to justify the actions of the Nazi/KKK/White Supremacists in Charlottesville. 

 

The Nazis at the Charlottesville white pride rally said the "exact opposite" of what BLM says? No, not quite.

Here's some quotes from that rally...

"You will not replace us"
"Jews will not replace us"
"+++++ you Faggots"

Now lets think about the imagery there. There's a bunch of white people, carrying torches (well, tiki torches, lol) and Nazi flags, chanting "Jews will not replace us". Didn't my grandfather fight in a war almost 80 years ago against those views? 

Now, on to his comments about a god given right (but somehow not Constitutionally given, which seems an odd thing to claim), for free assembly. He's absolutely right, they did have a right to free assembly.

He then goes on to complain that they had the fear of being attacked by exercising their First Amendment freedoms... he's right, they did get attacked. However, and this isn't a justification, earlier on in the day, a black man was brutally assaulted by a group of Vanguard America thugs while they screamed, "die n*gger" at him. That sure sounds like the "peaceful group" that the guy in the video is claiming that they were. 

Now, on to the State Police declaring the event to be an unlawful assembly. Guess what, the State Police of the Commonwealth of Virginia, much like in most of the rest of the country, supersedes the authority of local law enforcement. They also didn't remove their right to speak, they simply requested that they move to the alternate location that was given to them earlier in the week, and was part of their permit. 

Then he goes on to claim that it was just a couple of people with Nazi flags and it was just 20-30 year olds throwing up roman salutes. Those claims are categorically false, as a very quick Google search shows. There were a number of people with Nazi flags, performing NAZI salutes, and hell, carrying Nazi flags and Confederate flags and performing NAZI salutes. Didn't we fight and win a war against the Confederacy as well? But I digress...

Antifa is disgusting here in the United States, and they are every bit as bad as the groups that joined in Charlottesville. He can claim all he wants that the rally wasn't Nazi or White supremacist, but here's another chant from that event... or from the events over the weekend...

"Blood and Soil"

The last time I checked, "Blood and Soil" was a Nazi slogan that claimed that White ethnicity was superior to that of others, and that land ownership granted them that right. Now, there's another subcontext to that chant, and it has to do with land ownership. Jews had their land and property stripped of them by the Nazi party, so they were now of an "inferior" race, and they didn't own property, and henceforth weren't worth anything in the view of the Nazi party. 

Then he goes on to preach a bunch of hyperbole that no violence would have happened had the police been involved earlier. So wait. He didn't want the State Police involved, but then he goes on to while that they didn't get involved soon enough. Oh wait, his complaint was that the Charlottesville police didn't do anything, which is actually inaccurate, but hey. Not only that, but the State Police were out there trying to break those things up, and the Charlottesville police came out to stop the torch wielding rally the night before... convenient how he forgets that part. 

If you watch videos of what happened, there were both Charlottesville and Virginia State police involved trying to protect the alt-right from the counter-protests, even as alt-right members clubbed the counter-protesters with their Nazi and Confederate flags, sticks, and bats.

His free speech whining is hilarious when he mentions the chants made by Antifa and others, while conveniently ignoring "Blood and Soil", "Jews will not Replace Us, "You will not Replace Us", and so on and so forth. His rant about free speech being protected is absolutely correct, but it doesn't mean that the free speech cannot be opposed by others. Free Speech isn't unlimited, that is to say that those that exercise it are not free from consequences from exercising that speech. I might add that his claims about the counter-protesters not having a permit is categorically false, because they did. 

Then he COMPLETELY IGNORED the member of Vanguard America who drove his damned car into a group of counter protesters, injuring 19 and killing one. I guess they deserved that because they were supposedly members of Antifa or something, who knows. 

Was the left blameless in all of this? Absolutely not, but this guy claiming complete innocence by the alt-right is completely laughable. They started by marching and shouting racist and Nazi chants, and they finished by running people over. 

I'll end by pointing out additional chants by the TOTALLY NOT NAZIS OR WHITE SUPREMACISTS that were simply peacefully exercising their right to free speech and weren't expressing racist views at all. Oh, and they totally didn't come for a fight either, open carrying, wearing riot gear, body armor, shields, and all sorts of other equipment. But hey, they were simply there to be peaceful, but anyway... back to the chants. 

Oh, and here's some of the stuff that Cantwell and a few others had to say to a VICE reporter...

"We're not nonviolent, we'll f*cking kill these people if we have to"
"This city is run by Jewish communists and criminal n*ggers"
"At some point we will have enough power to clear them from the streets forever, that which is degenerate in white countries will be removed"

"You will not replace us"
"Jews will not replace us"
"+++++ you Faggots"
"Blood and Soil"

Not racist.

"Jews will not replace us"
"You will not replace us"
"Blood and Soil"

Not Nazi

"Jews will not replace us"
"Blood and Soil"

Not filled with hate 

"+++++ you Faggots"

Again, not Nazi...

"Jews will not replace us"
"Blood and Soil"

Simply disgusting.

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and an ethnically Italian friend of mine just had his life threatened by a neo-Nazi skinhead at a gas station about ten miles from me. He's Italian, but the guy started yelling at him for being a Jew and said he should die... dude was wearing a Nazi armband and had a Confederate flag mounted in his truck. 

Fortunately, he has a CCW, drew down on the guy, and told him, "the last time anyone in my family fought Nazis, it was in an American uniform, and they killed a whole bunch of you. I'd be more than happy to continue a family tradition." 

I know I'm a Libertarian and all, and believe in the NAP, but +++++ these mother+++++ers. 

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12 minutes ago, retrofade said:

and an ethnically Italian friend of mine just had his life threatened by a neo-Nazi skinhead at a gas station about ten miles from me. He's Italian, but the guy started yelling at him for being a Jew and said he should die... dude was wearing a Nazi armband and had a Confederate flag mounted in his truck. 

Fortunately, he has a CCW, drew down on the guy, and told him, "the last time anyone in my family fought Nazis, it was in an American uniform, and they killed a whole bunch of you. I'd be more than happy to continue a family tradition." 

I know I'm a Libertarian and all, and believe in the NAP, but +++++ these mother+++++ers. 

Your friend drew a weapon on an unarmed person?

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Jefferson has been memorialized for his role as a founding father of this country, not because of any stance on slaves.

Lee has been memorialized for leading a group trying to secede from this country, largely over the slavery issue.

 

Can you see the difference?

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4 minutes ago, roswellcoug said:

Your friend drew a weapon on an unarmed person?

A person that threatened his life and was approaching him in a threatening manner. The local police came, the Nazi flipped the +++++ out, and he's been arrested. My friend was just let go by the police. 

That being said, it's +++++ing reprehensible that you focused in on that and not the actions of the Nazi that was threatening him. You're a disgusting person. 

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2 minutes ago, Mano said:

Jefferson has been memorialized for his role as a founding father of this country, not because of any stance on slaves.

Lee has been memorialized for leading a group trying to secede from this country, largely over the slavery issue.

 

Can you see the difference?

I'm not for tearing anything down. Your side is the one wanting to tear down all monuments, even those of Washington and Jefferson. Talk to them, not me, with your moral rationalizations.

 

 

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Just now, roswellcoug said:

I'm not for tearing anything down. Your side is the one wanting to tear down all monuments, even those of Washington and Jefferson. Talk to them, not me, with your moral rationalizations.

 

 

You're a dumb+++++.

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6 minutes ago, retrofade said:

A person that threatened his life and was approaching him in a threatening manner. The local police came, the Nazi flipped the +++++ out, and he's been arrested. My friend was just let go by the police. 

That being said, it's +++++ing reprehensible that you focused in on that and not the actions of the Nazi that was threatening him. You're a disgusting person. 

He is a tool.

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4 minutes ago, roswellcoug said:

I'm not for tearing anything down. Your side is the one wanting to tear down all monuments, even those of Washington and Jefferson. Talk to them, not me, with your moral rationalizations.

Moral rationalizations. LOL. You're hysterical. 

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5 minutes ago, roswellcoug said:

I'm not for tearing anything down. Your side is the one wanting to tear down all monuments, even those of Washington and Jefferson. Talk to them, not me, with your moral rationalizations.

So, you can't tell the difference?  

We already know you like the confederate memorials, and we know why.

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2 minutes ago, retrofade said:

Roswell just needs to come out and admit what we already know about him.

Just to be clear, he's probably not a racist. He is blinded by his hatred of the left, which is really the only principle he holds. And that puts him on the side of racists.

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1 minute ago, NVGiant said:

Just to be clear, he's probably not a racist. He is blinded by his hatred of the left, which is really the only principle he holds. 

He's a racist too. And a homophobe, which I suspect is deep down self-hatred. 

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