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FormerFrog

Former Frog's thoughts on the MWC - 2017 edition

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49 minutes ago, MWC Tex said:

Actually, not as much as before since they have move to FBS and the Sunbelt.  Put them in the MW and they'll be even more engaged being in a much higher ranked conference.

I do agree the tide is turning somewhat, but I don't think a move to the MWC is as big a boost as you may think. Texas (the state) just identifies more easternly sports-wise. Utah State, Fresno State and Nevada are all great schools, but just aren't huge draws here unless you're from the west. Time and conference affiliation could change that over time, but there's a reason Houston went East when the SWC disbanded. 

 

Texas State has made a lot of poor decisions, some forced and some not. Rebranding from Southwest Texas State is great future-wise, but it seriously pissed off some of their old fan base that don't identify as Texas State. Silly I know, but true. Texas State should have pushed for FBS a long time ago but sat on their hands until UTSA started sniffing around and especially when they started talking about football. Texas State should have pushed to claim San Antonio as their own but played around too much until UTSA started becoming serious in sports and a threat. UTSA doesn't own San Antonio but Texas State doesn't either and UTSA has a leg on them now being in San Antonio and has the city pushing and supporting them. Plus they have UT system to help. State should have put UTSA down before they ever started. 

In the end it just doesn't matter because my university will get whatever it wants and be on the inside on any incarnation of whatever conference it chooses and whatever incarnation of the NCAA or BCS that arises. Our ego only got bigger with the Pac-10, SEC and Big 10 trying to get us to join their conference.

Look, why don't you just be quiet before my university buys yours and closes it just for spite?

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On 3/9/2017 at 9:29 AM, Jack Bauer said:

Quit being a whiny little dipshit if you want to have a conversation.  BYU makes more than all the teams here except for Boise, where the numbers are pretty similar.  But sure, keep up the internet tough guy act.  BYU makes 800k-1.2 million per home game x 5 games, with one on BYUtv.  That alone adds up to 4 million at the low end without any other revenue.

Probably time to choose a team too.  WTF is a hawkeyelobo?

 

FWIW, Jay Drew preached for years that BYU was getting 800k-1.2 million per home game and the $4 million a year.  Until 2015 when his tune changed; http://www.sltrib.com/sports/2438654-155/byu-football-for-cougars-football-independence

Quote

 

Mendenhall said revenue from television contracts will bring each Power 5 school between $20 million and $27 million per year. Most experts put the number around $25 million.

"That's a whole lot more than we get from our deal with ESPN," said Mendenhall, referring to a contract that pays BYU an estimated $10 million per year, give or take a million, through 2018.

 

 

 

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51 minutes ago, WestByGodVirginiaNate said:

How bout Marshall???? We can convince James Madison to be our travel partner. We are located "West" Virginia an the whole state is a mountain.

@FresnoFanatic - can you plot out a scenario where this would work? Thanks! 

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3 hours ago, BSUTOP25 said:

@FresnoFanatic - can you plot out a scenario where this would work? Thanks! 

"Works"?  Welllllllll, not sure it will work.  But if we do expand, I'd think it has to do with the other topic I've seen lately about Hair (from members' presidents' gripes) knocking tv schedules and throwing out the threat of going all digital next tv contract.  If that's the case, and we don't want defections (to AAC) or another airport meeting, I'd try for the biggest guns....

 

Wichita State (if they do resurrect their football program)

UTEP and UTSA (larger fan bases.  I think UTSA in the city of San Antonio would be a great football add since no NFL in that city)

Rice  (Houston market (for recruiting, not eyeballs), great academics, and bigger name than Dallas market's North Texas - we like city-state schools, not directional schools, here UNT.....sorry)

There isn't any great football adds as far as football strength out there, so these 4 will fit in fine, especially since they aren't any worse or better than the 12 football teams we have currently ("on average", that is).

 

West:  Hawaii (football only) / SJSJ / Fresno / SUDS / UNLV / Nevada / Boise / USU

Mtn:  Wyo / CSU-FC / AFA / New Mexico / UTEP / UTSA / Rice / Wichita

This MW-16 is geographically balanced, unlike the old WAC-16, and keeps traditional rivalries in tact.

~ FF

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43 minutes ago, FresnoFanatic said:

"Works"?  Welllllllll, not sure it will work.  But if we do expand, I'd think it has to do with the other topic I've seen lately about Hair (from members' presidents' gripes) knocking tv schedules and throwing out the threat of going all digital next tv contract.  If that's the case, and we don't want defections (to AAC) or another airport meeting, I'd try for the biggest guns....

 

Wichita State (if they do resurrect their football program)

UTEP and UTSA (larger fan bases.  I think UTSA in the city of San Antonio would be a great football add since no NFL in that city)

Rice  (Houston market (for recruiting, not eyeballs), great academics, and bigger name than Dallas market's North Texas - we like city-state schools, not directional schools, here UNT.....sorry)

There isn't any great football adds as far as football strength out there, so these 4 will fit in fine, especially since they aren't any worse or better than the 12 football teams we have currently ("on average", that is).

 

West:  Hawaii (football only) / SJSJ / Fresno / SUDS / UNLV / Nevada / Boise / USU

Mtn:  Wyo / CSU-FC / AFA / New Mexico / UTEP / UTSA / Rice / Wichita

This MW-16 is geographically balanced, unlike the old WAC-16, and keeps traditional rivalries in tact.

Good post IMHO.  

WSU SHockers -- Their Oly's make perfect sense as MWC needs some post-season grit & toughness added to our MBB, which the Shocks have.   As a former Shocker Fball player, I believe they'd have to start Fball as a D1AA program, and prove its ability to gain Attendance, Win & become self-funding.... before becoming a MWC Fball team.  Which is fine because the Shocker MBB/Oly sports would serve as a great balance to UHa's absence.

UTEP -- I actually believe that adding them to the I-25 corridor of teams... it might help UTEP improve Attendance & Wins for MBB and Fball.  UTEP facing off vs. UNM, AFA, CSU, Wyo ... it does make alot of sense.  Not to mention the past history of these teams.  I think it could & would make UTEP a far better program (more MWC worthy) within 2-3 years.  And El Paso does have a large population, and if the MWC could "OWN" that TV DMA (51%), it'd be a wonder feather in our cap.  But it doesn't really get the MWC into the heart of Texas in order to build awareness & recruiting & etc.  

UTSA or TSU -- I love them both, each has huge upside potential... and I have attended games at their stadiums.  The remodeled TSU Stadium vs. ULL (its still pretty hokey, kinda like lipstick on a Pig) & the Alamo Dome vs. CSU (it has its flaws, but it is a substantial, beautiful, large, & most importantly INDOOR stadium... no bad weather games).  I'd have to go with UTSA due to the 2M population and the pride they seem to be taking in their UTSA RoadRunners Fball.  San Antone has a very large Military & Retired Military population, and they know how to organize & get behind a startup to make it a success.  

TSU is mostly a bunch of nutty college kids who just wanna party and try to be like TA&M  or UT... which they'll never be.  I'd stake my wagon w/ UTSA.

Rice -- your guess is as good as mine on this one.  I think they have to continue to look East for many of their Students... as does Tulsa & even Houston.  Bailiff has done a fine job build up that Fball program, and the Baseball is excellent (good match for the Shockers).  I'm not sure the geography works real well, being that they're a small school, located in Houston.  But they sure add to the MWC academics...

UNT -- has wonderful potential, but as the #3 Fball program in the DFW area... it's had to compare it to UTSA and get excited.  

As I stated in another post, the 1st thrust I beleive the MWC should make is a Mereger/Acquistion road map of :

#1 --  WSU SHockers as Oly SPorts only... let them build their D1AA Fball as fast as they can, but no guarantee of membership.  Great MBB, Baseball, WBB, VB and a great base of fans who actually support & attend their games.

#2 --  BYU for Fball only w/ a committment of 5-6 years minimum to the MWC (call it a trial period)... let'em enjoy the WCC for Oly sports... let WSU settle into the MWC and see how they compliment the rest of the MWC & make it stronger... before going further w/ BYU.  

IMHO, UHo & SMU are tied to the East for a bunch of their Students & now via exit fees to the AAC.  There's little justification for them to jump to the MWC.

#3 -- I'd make a bold move on UTSA in an attempt to Package a deal w/ the Alamo Bowl (I know they're entirely separate entities).  The Package would provide Alamo Bowl gets the 1st choice for any MWC team it wants over the next 5-6 years (same period as the BYU committment), vs. the B12's  #3 or #4 TEAM, normally getting teams like Okie St, K State, Baylor, TTech.   This 5 year committment is basically in order to help BOOST the MWC's profile in the San Antone, TX area, for that period of time.  

How'd the area fans & ESPN like matchups like AFA vs. Baylor (SA is a huge Airforce & Military city),  Boise vs. Okie State,  CSU vs. K-State,  BYU vs. TTech, SDSU vs. TCU, etc.   Damn compelling matchups, especially when those MWC teams are ranked in the top 10 to 20.  It could be a slot the MWC is guaranteed annually for next 5 years, or every other year for next 6 yrs, or the MWC becomes 1 Option for the Alamo Bowl chose from on an annual basis (weak position, but better than nothing).  Whatever we can get, the point is for the MWC to gain as large of a committment as possible from the City of San Antonio & it's Alamo Bowl non-profit, to help make the MWC well known in those parts.

#4 -- Should UTSA & Alamo Bowl fail, offer the same thing to UTEP & Sun Bowl.  

#5 -- Should that fail, invite UTSA & UTEP after they've proven their programs to be "strong enough" for the MWC.   I think UTSA is almost there... and I sure hate that name ... How about Alamo University?

Just some wild-ass thinking out loud.

 

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In a bizarre twist adding EST and CST teams to the MW might be just what the doctor ordered to spur east coast interest in our far west conference. So...Marshall(Good fan following), Appy St, Louisiana(between Houston and NO), and Georgia St(Atlanta)...

Ok ok, dumb, but it's basically the off season so yeah...

 

 

 

 

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44 minutes ago, AztecSU said:

In a bizarre twist adding EST and CST teams to the MW might be just what the doctor ordered to spur east coast interest in our far west conference. So...Marshall(Good fan following), Appy St, Louisiana(between Houston and NO), and Georgia St(Atlanta)...

Ok ok, dumb, but it's basically the off season so yeah...

You forgot ECU... large fan attendance of approx. 50k/game.

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Just now, RAMification said:

You forgot ECU... large fan attendance of approx. 50k/game.

I purposely avoided AAC teams as they are unlikely to seriously consider the change...sunbelt/cusa schools on the other hand might be more willing. 

 

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, AztecSU said:

I purposely avoided AAC teams as they are unlikely to seriously consider the change...sunbelt/cusa schools on the other hand might be more willing. 

Shows my ignorance... I thought they were still CUSA.  Gracias...

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1 hour ago, RAMification said:

You forgot ECU... large fan attendance of approx. 50k/game.

As if ECU would leave the AAC to join the Molehill Worst. (Edit: Just saw you didn't know ECU was in the AAC. Sorry but if knowledge is power, lack thereof is weakness which kinda diminishes your credibility.)

 

As to schools mentioned elsewhere who probably would join, this thread should be re-titled MWC Now Obviously In Desperation Mode.

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Boom goes the dynamite.

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The AAC is a geographic frankenstein.   The two divisions of the American are distinct; the West is a significantly better division than the East on the gridiron with 4 bowl eligible teams to two.

The MW is the opposite.  SDSU looks to be in a dominant position of the weaker West division for the foreseeable future because they are now the top team in San Diego market.  While  Hawaii was also bowl eligible, the Mountain had 5 bowl eligible teams, and that trend could continue as Utah State is just as likely as any other team to become competitive in the near future.  The competitive imbalance in the MW's divisions could be a long term problem for 

Most of the divisions in FBS conferences have a roughly equal number of bowl eligible and non bowl eligible teams.  Aside from the SEC (6-4),  the American and the MW are distinct from other FBS conferences by having one division that is clearly better than the other.  The Big 12 is very likely to expand with BYU and schools from the American West and MW Mountain because those schools play in a very difficult division and so they are more likely to be ready to make the transition to a higher level of conference competition.

Expansion would distribute the competition more evenly if Boise was part of the West rather than the Mountain .  Any Texas expansion probably makes a lot of sense because it pushes Boise west.  Neither Rice or UTEP would be immediate Mountain division contenders but that is probably okay because that division is a bit stacked.

The eventual loss a school to the Big 12 would allow the conference to return to 12 because Rice would probably be invited by the American.  If Houston were invited to the Big 12 Rice is a perfect replacement for the American in one of their largest markets.   Houston joining the Big 12 if Texas and Oklahoma leave the Big 12 is reasonably likely to occur, so it would be likely Rice would only be a member of the MW for four or five years.  I suspect Rice's administration would know this and so they would pursue a football only membership.  

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MWC should consider a strategy to get Gonzaga, BYU, and Wichita St. into the conference for Olympic sports. That would instantly give the MWC a renewed credibility. The MWC would become a 3-5 bid league, with the upside for true POWER conference numbers when Gonzaga, WSU, SDSU, UNLV, New Mexico, Nevada, BYU, Utah St., Boise St., etc. have things humming. All three new programs have substantial fan bases and would help the home team sell tickets when visiting MWC venues.

A 14-team Olympic sports conference is very manageable, especially with a nice, contiguous footprint. Formal divisions wouldn't be necessary for Olympic sports, but you could stack schedules to maintain regional matchups and rivalries. 

And, I think the time could be near at hand. The MWC contract is up for renegotiation within the couple of years. Mark Few has recently protested the WCC programs' lack of investment in basketball. The small WCC gyms are a common gripe among BYU fans. We would love to renew rivalries with SDSU, UNLV, New Mexico, and Wyoming and forge a basketball rivalry with Boise St....and bring the Utah St.-BYU series in-conference.

Allow BYU football to remain independent, but have a quasi-affiliation with significant OOC games (aren't there like 6 BYU-MWC games in each of the next couple of years?) and for bowls (help the MWC/BYU affiliation get the Las Vegas, Holiday, Cactus and Armed Forces bowls annually against P5 opponents?).

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Just now, YNot said:

MWC should consider a strategy to get Gonzaga, BYU, and Wichita St. into the conference for Olympic sports. That would instantly give the MWC a renewed credibility. The MWC would become a 3-5 bid league, with the upside for true POWER conference numbers when Gonzaga, WSU, SDSU, UNLV, New Mexico, Nevada, BYU, Utah St., Boise St., etc. have things humming. All three new programs have substantial fan bases and would help the home team sell tickets when visiting MWC venues.

A 14-team Olympic sports conference is very manageable, especially with a nice, contiguous footprint. Formal divisions wouldn't be necessary for Olympic sports, but you could stack schedules to maintain regional matchups and rivalries. 

And, I think the time could be near at hand. The MWC contract is up for renegotiation within the couple of years. Mark Few has recently protested the WCC programs' lack of investment in basketball. The small WCC gyms are a common gripe among BYU fans. We would love to renew rivalries with SDSU, UNLV, New Mexico, and Wyoming and forge a basketball rivalry with Boise St....and bring the Utah St.-BYU series in-conference.

Allow BYU football to remain independent, but have a quasi-affiliation with significant OOC games (aren't there like 6 BYU-MWC games in each of the next couple of years?) and for bowls (help the MWC/BYU affiliation get the Las Vegas, Holiday, Cactus and Armed Forces bowls annually against P5 opponents?).

If MWC football expansion into Texas is a goal, then Wichita St., Gonzaga, and BYU could help to entice Houston, SMU, and Tulsa into the conference. May be UTEP as the 16th football team...or Navy for football only - in an Eastern/Mountain division that doesn't look much different than the AAC West, plus Air Force...

Football:

MOUNTAIN: Wyoming, CSU, Air Force, New Mexico, Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Navy (or UTEP)

WEST: Hawaii, SDSU, SJSU, Fresno, UNLV, Nevada, Boise St., Utah St.

Basketball: (rough schedule groupings)

- Wichita St., Tulsa, SMU, Houston

- Wyoming, CSU, Air Force, New Mexico (UTEP)

- Gonzaga, Boise St., Utah St., BYU

- SDSU, SJSU, Fresno, UNLV, Nevada

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The MWC brand is killing this conference. BYU/Utah/TCU once made the MWC hot, but the loss of those three programs created a "death perception" that intensified when Thompson emptied out the WAC.

The MWC brand has been soiled to the point that the conference would do better to rebrand.

IMO, this would take an airport meeting. What people don't seem to grasp is the 'airport meeting' actually propped up the new MWC brand at the expense of the WAC (which was relegated to the jilted spouse)

And now, without the bellcows, the geographic oddity of being aligned with 'Mountain West Time Zone' really makes the conference appear BUSH. Let's be honest here, the Mountain West Time Zone is equated with the deadlands. Everyone has heard of the Mountain West Time Zone but its like Hogwarts - Normal people don't know where the F it is!!

The MWC is out of the game by the sheer fact that it is the MWC. Instead of using a ball, the teams should use some tumbleweed.

Can I be blunt? The whole start times dust-up that is leading to the MWC going off television is directly related to the perception that MWC teams play in a cruddy part of the country that is out of whack with our mediated universe.

Long story short, that MWC brand is 3 Scarlet Letters on the foreheads of all your Presidents. It makes them look like bumpkins.

What I suggest is CUTTING THE FAT (drop down to 10 FB teams, by cutting Utah State and SJSU,

THEN, ADD Gonzaga Olympics to offset Hawaii.

That would give the conference a more ELITE feel, while dumping some of the dregs.

This looks more impressive in FB: Boise State, SDSU, Fresno State, UNLV, Nevada, Hawaii, Air Force, New Mexico, Colorado State, Wyoming

In Hoop you'd have, Gonzaga, SDSU, UNLV, New Mexico, Fresno State, Nevada, Air Force, Colorado State, Wyoming, Boise State.

If you want to cut the fat even more, YOU TELL AIR FORCE TO GET THEIR SORRY OLYMPICS OUT!! No other good conference has Service Academy Olympics.

In Hoop, the MWC ideal would be a 10 team Round Robin of: GONZAGA, BYU, SAN DIEGO STATE, UNLV, NEVADA, NEW MEXICO, BOISE STATE, WYOMING, COLORADO STATE, FRESNO STATE.

Finally, to make the conference appealing for much better TV spots, you REBRAND as the PACIFIC COAST CONFERENCE. (the Pac 12 isn't using it anymore). You focus on building up the RPIs of THAT GROUP in a Conference that now has a brand reflecting a more sophisticated Coastal mentality. You lose the stigma of being a bunch of programs in the sparse Mountain West, where people need to engineer their home made Satellite dishes to watch the games.

Trust me guys, the MWC brand is ruined. On the same junk pile as the WAC and the CUSA,.You WILL NEVER compete with the image of who was there after Utah et al abandoned the WAC... just like the WAC never recovered from the stigma of being "Less Than"... and CUSA never recovered from losing Louiville, Cincinnati, TCU, and USF.

If you're serious about sports, you need to downsize and get rid of that awful moniker.

 

pcc_logo_current.png

 

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I wouldn't say that the SEC or Big 12 fit the image of a "sophisticated coastal mentality", yet they do okay. Obviously we all want the MW to be better, but your suggestion is both unrealistic and pointless.

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I like your idea but kick out Wyoming instead and keep Utah St.

I don't know about you but as long as Wyoming is in the MWC, the image of this conference will never change. I think of Wyoming as a welfare team. Most people think of the Big Sky conference when they think of Wyoming. As should be.

No travel subs or we are out.

Disclaimer: Any views or opinions presented by this poster (Warbow) are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Univesity of Hawaii or it's loyal fans. All quotes and opinions from Warbow are valid for 30 days following the date of post transmission and are subject to change at any time. All information published herein by Warbow is gathered from his own opinions or sources which are thought to be reliable, but the reader should not assume that the information is official or fact.

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