Jump to content
FormerFrog

Former Frog's thoughts on the MWC - 2017 edition

Recommended Posts

I don't see how adding BYU to the MW would mean a better tv deal.  ESPN is shedding costs..Houston is way way way far away.  Do they want to ship their non revenue sports to Fresno or Boise..

I guess BYU could be the anchor of a football only consortium of sorts but the notion of a 14 member MW with BYU,Houston and SMU added on is pretty far fetched..

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, hawkeyelobo said:

MWC schools get more than 1.2 million per team liar. BYU doesn't get 4 million a year liar. BYU gets around 800k per home game from espn for those espn2/Friday night games and usually plays 3-5 home games per year on espn networks. With bonus money last year, New Mexico and BYU were close in tv money.  It wasn't 4 million to 1.2 you +++++ing liar. Get the +++++ out of here asshole. You are a piece of śhit, and I no longer want BYU back. Go join the AAC. If they'll take you intolerant +++++ing cult +++++s

Quit being a whiny little dipshit if you want to have a conversation.  BYU makes more than all the teams here except for Boise, where the numbers are pretty similar.  But sure, keep up the internet tough guy act.  BYU makes 800k-1.2 million per home game x 5 games, with one on BYUtv.  That alone adds up to 4 million at the low end without any other revenue.

Probably time to choose a team too.  WTF is a hawkeyelobo?

Image result for jim mcmahon with lavell edwardsImage result for byu logoImage result for byu boise state end zone hail maryc07489bb8bb7f5bad3672877f8b04f34.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/4/2017 at 6:15 PM, Jack Bauer said:

Well, you're wrong.  There's a reason the conference network folded when Utah, BYU and TCU all left.  

FIFY....At the time The Mtn announced it was shutting down (April 2012), both Utah schools were already gone, and TCU had announced its departure 17 months previous and was 3 months from being gone.

In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are reports that the AAC is looking to add Wichita St., along with VCU and/or Dayton to strengthen men's basketball. The national perception is that the AAC could possibly poach Air Force and perhaps SDSU and other MWC schools.

Why not flip the perception? 

MWC adds Gonzaga, St. Mary's, Wichita St., and BYU for Olympic sports. THAT could be the catalyst to actually attract Houston, SMU, and Tulsa to the MWC for football - and all sports. The MWC would even have a shot at an affiliation with Navy football, with the Texas schools and Air Force in the division. Affiliate with BYU for OOC football games (half of which are in MWC stadiums) and for the bowl lineup.

The MWC would have a contiguous footprint, which is important for rivalries, which the far-flung AAC does not.

For men's basketball, with Gonzaga, SDSU, UNLV, St. Mary's, BYU, Nevada on one side of the conference and Wichita St., SMU, Tulsa, Houston, and New Mexico on the other, you will consistently get 3 or 4 bids to the NCAA tournament, while knocking the WCC back down to 1-bid status. The upside could be 7 or 8 bids for expanded MWC men's basketball. MWC basketball becomes a *power* basketball conference and a definitely tweener for football.

The conference would likely land an NY6 bid at least every other year.

The $$$ is there because you add quality football (Houston, Navy, formal BYU affiliation) and get into the Central and even Eastern time zones. This gives the conference flexibility for 12pm ET to 10pm ET kickoff times for conference games. You are also gaining value that is currently in the AAC's and WCC's TV deals. And, Gonzaga, Wichita St., St. Mary's, BYU, SMU, Tulsa, etc. have basketball value. The Big East gets like $40M per year for just men's basketball.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

WEST: Hawaii, SDSU, SJSU, Fresno, Nevada, UNLV, Boise St., Utah St.

EAST: Air Force, CSU, Wyoming, New Mexico, Tulsa, SMU, Houston, Navy (Memphis, UTEP or UTSA as a replacement?)

The expanded MWC would have a good shot to land 4 or 5 bowl games against P5 opponents (in order of likelihood):

- Las Vegas (v. PAC)

- Armed Forces (v. B12)

- Heart of Dallas (v. B1G or SEC?)

- Holiday (v. PAC/B1G)

- Cactus (v. B12/PAC)- LIberty (v. B12/SEC)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Basketball wouldn't have strict divisions, but would follow regionality and rivalries for large portions of the conference schedule. For instance, SDSU might only play 2 or 3 of the more eastern teams every other year, but play UNLV, Fresno, and SJSU home and away every year. Likewise, the Front Range schools would play each other home and away each year, and rotate through the rest of the conference. SMU would play Houston, Tulsa, and Wichita St. home and away, but the some of the western schools only every other year.

The MWC tournament could remain in Vegas, but would see massive turnout with 18 schools involved and large fan bases like Gonzaga, BYU, SDSU, UNLV, New Mexico, Wichita St., etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, YNot said:

There are reports that the AAC is looking to add Wichita St., along with VCU and/or Dayton to strengthen men's basketball. The national perception is that the AAC could possibly poach Air Force and perhaps SDSU and other MWC schools.

Why not flip the perception? 

 

Because Craig Thompson is our commissioner.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is not a national perception that Air Force is going anywhere because every time they've been courted their answer to press inquires is about about the value of loyalty in service.  Air Force has a high profile football team but is overall not as competitive as athletic department.  The American has zero interest in Air Force basketball.

It's preposterous to react to what the American is doing.  The American is falling out of favor with ESPN and expansion rumors, etc. are being floated to see if they can offer something to their tv partners which is better than what they currently have.

It is a logical fallacy to think the MW is in the same place as the American. The Mountain West is the only alternative to the Pac 12 for a 10 PM EST game.   ESPN ought to recognize how the MW compliments the SEC and ACC (and the shared rights with pac 12, B1G and Big 12) while Fox Sports and NBC Sports should see the same opportunity CBS sports sees but just doesn't seem to have the distribution or something to really take advantage of the MW.

The big question is whether ESPN exclusivity is still important.  It might be possible that ESPN's declining fortunes affect their interest in Boise State and if Boise is open to alternatives, there could be very different a structure of the next tv contract.

Rice football only to balance Hawaii makes sense with UTEP as a full member.  There are nearly two million people in the metro area of El Paso while Albuquereu + Sante Fe is like 800,000 and the university owns the Sun Bowl stadium (but the bowl game is a separate non profit).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Bruininthebay said:

There is not a national perception that Air Force is going anywhere because every time they've been courted their answer to press inquires is about about the value of loyalty in service.  Air Force has a high profile football team but is overall not as competitive as athletic department.  The American has zero interest in Air Force basketball.

It's preposterous to react to what the American is doing.  The American is falling out of favor with ESPN and expansion rumors, etc. are being floated to see if they can offer something to their tv partners which is better than what they currently have.

It is a logical fallacy to think the MW is in the same place as the American. The Mountain West is the only alternative to the Pac 12 for a 10 PM EST game.   ESPN ought to recognize how the MW compliments the SEC and ACC (and the shared rights with pac 12, B1G and Big 12) while Fox Sports and NBC Sports should see the same opportunity CBS sports sees but just doesn't seem to have the distribution or something to really take advantage of the MW.

The big question is whether ESPN exclusivity is still important.  It might be possible that ESPN's declining fortunes affect their interest in Boise State and if Boise is open to alternatives, there could be very different a structure of the next tv contract.

Rice football only to balance Hawaii makes sense with UTEP as a full member.  There are nearly two million people in the metro area of El Paso while Albuquereu + Sante Fe is like 800,000 and the university owns the Sun Bowl stadium (but the bowl game is a separate non profit).

This doesn't make sense to me...it's about who delivers the biggest average audience, last time I checked that was the American. So from that perspective it makes more sense to cull the MW and provide the American with an additional 4 western teams to augment the late night scheduling while perhaps dropping the MW entirely so FS1/NBC or someone else can pick them up. ESPN still controls the narrative surrounding CFB, so if they decide it's in their best interest to pimp the American as quasi power conference, while they get to pay it much less than the actual power conferences, they will. 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Bruininthebay said:

There is not a national perception that Air Force is going anywhere because every time they've been courted their answer to press inquires is about about the value of loyalty in service.  Air Force has a high profile football team but is overall not as competitive as athletic department.  The American has zero interest in Air Force basketball.

It's preposterous to react to what the American is doing.  The American is falling out of favor with ESPN and expansion rumors, etc. are being floated to see if they can offer something to their tv partners which is better than what they currently have.

It is a logical fallacy to think the MW is in the same place as the American. The Mountain West is the only alternative to the Pac 12 for a 10 PM EST game.   ESPN ought to recognize how the MW compliments the SEC and ACC (and the shared rights with pac 12, B1G and Big 12) while Fox Sports and NBC Sports should see the same opportunity CBS sports sees but just doesn't seem to have the distribution or something to really take advantage of the MW.

The big question is whether ESPN exclusivity is still important.  It might be possible that ESPN's declining fortunes affect their interest in Boise State and if Boise is open to alternatives, there could be very different a structure of the next tv contract.

Rice football only to balance Hawaii makes sense with UTEP as a full member.  There are nearly two million people in the metro area of El Paso while Albuquereu + Sante Fe is like 800,000 and the university owns the Sun Bowl stadium (but the bowl game is a separate non profit).

But the 10 pm Eastern game is not a valuable asset. The 11am, 230pm and 5-7 pm (central time zone) are the valuable times. 2/3s of the US population is getting ready for bed or in bed by halftime of a 10 start. 

In the end it just doesn't matter because my university will get whatever it wants and be on the inside on any incarnation of whatever conference it chooses and whatever incarnation of the NCAA or BCS that arises. Our ego only got bigger with the Pac-10, SEC and Big 10 trying to get us to join their conference.

Look, why don't you just be quiet before my university buys yours and closes it just for spite?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/6/2017 at 7:10 AM, Fido said:

Because SpartaRick brought in BYU in post #2 on page 1 of this thread.  :blink:

Gee SpartaRick, thanks for nothin'. :rolleyes:

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But the 10 pm Eastern game is not a valuable asset. The 11am, 230pm and 5-7 pm (central time zone) are the valuable times. 2/3s of the US population is getting ready for bed or in bed by halftime of a 10 start.There is not a national perception that Air Force is going anywhere because every time they've been courted their answer to press inquires is about about the value of loyalty in service.  Air Force has a high profile football team but is overall not as competitive as athletic department.  The American has zero interest in Air Force basketball.

I'm a Pac 12 guy but I'll admit that a midweek Pac 12 game hasn't generated ratings like a mid week SEC or Big Ten game does because even a 6 PM start time is too early for a crowd except on Friday.  Both ESPN and Fox Sports are probably paying more to the Pac 12 than they could to the MWC or American because the west coast isn't as fervent about sports as the east coast.  Isn't BYU about even with the MWC in matchups since independence?

There is money in the 10 PM eastern start time because bars are liable to the copy right holder if:

  • You don’t charge an admission or cover fee,
  • The bar or restaurant in question has less than 3750 square feet of space,
  • No more than four screens are showing the broadcast, and
  • None of the televisions are larger than 55 inches. 

Apparently this was laid out in the late 90s in federal copyright law to distinguish between bars and "sports bars" in case you ever wondered if there is actually a difference.  Football crazy east coast bar patrons watch west coast football at bars from 10 PM to 2 AM eastern standard time and the sports networks charge those bars special copyright fees for the right to show the games.

The 10 Pm Eastern game is a valuable asset but not as much as home viewership which determines advertising revenue.  BYU and Boise State both do well in the east coast bar time slot, and the spectrum between what the Pac 12 is paid and what the MWC is paid is much wider than the spectrum between ratings for Pac 12 games and MW games in the 7pm pacific/10 pm est time slot on cable sports network's last season.  http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college-football-tv-ratings/  The MWC is offering something that ESPN and Fox Sports need to please the sports bars who are an important part of revenue for college football media rights distributors.

I'd like the Pac 12 to get the national distribution that means this kind of revenue comes in without ESPN or fox taking a cut.  Eventually we get more of our money (highly paid network execs aside) by not making Pac 12 available on cable except direct from the conference owned network precisely because we can get full market value without a middle man.  I'd also like a contract where all games are on Saturday and each major network gets to broadcast one game a week, so we get the biggest audience.  Who know if NBC would really add to the Notre Dame game, but I bet CBS will with the SEC cozying up to ESPN.

If the Pac 12 maximizes our revenue, the MWC is still in a good position because ESPN has to have live college football for those sports bar license fees it needs for Disney shareholders dividend payments and only the MWC/BYU are alternatives to the pac 12 if we go our own way.  Cable sports network execs have to be aware of this possibility and the MWC could be what is broadcast every Friday and Saturday at 10 PM eastern by both ESPN and Fox Sports.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With the awful shape the basketball conference is in, I was thinking how much UTEP and RICE would help the situation. Mike Rhoades is making Rice basketball relevant. They are 22-11 this year. Tim Floyd always has UTEP competitive. They tied for 3rd in their conference this year.

I can't help but think how much it will help the membership to play games in both California and Texas. Those 2 states are mammoths in the recruiting game.

The MWC has to do something!

9886480.jpg

A school like UTEP is instantly better in the MWC, playing amongst its historical rivals. They have tended to recruit California as much as Texas. The Miners offer National Champion pedigree and would help the MWC's "powers" New Mexico and UNLV regain their footing.

THE MWC IS A ONE BID CONFERENCE!!! THINK ABOUT THAT!

If the MWC is going to go "all-in" on streaming games, then UTEP and Rice wont be cutting into anyone's pie. If anything they'll be expanding the pie, with viewership in a much more populous region than the MWC currently inhabits.

  • Like 2

hTKgPYW.jpgt8rHyxq.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, FormerFrog said:

With the awful shape the basketball conference is in, I was thinking how much UTEP and RICE would help the situation. Mike Rhoades is making Rice basketball relevant. They are 22-11 this year. Tim Floyd always has UTEP competitive. They tied for 3rd in their conference this year.

I can't help but think how much it will help the membership to play games in both California and Texas. Those 2 states are mammoths in the recruiting game.

The MWC has to do something!

9886480.jpg

A school like UTEP is instantly better in the MWC, playing amongst its historical rivals. They have tended to recruit California as much as Texas. The Miners offer National Champion pedigree and would help the MWC's "powers" New Mexico and UNLV regain their footing.

THE MWC IS A ONE BID CONFERENCE!!! THINK ABOUT THAT!

If the MWC is going to go "all-in" on streaming games, then UTEP and Rice wont be cutting into anyone's pie. If anything they'll be expanding the pie, with viewership in a much more populous region than the MWC currently inhabits.

No way, they are in the 23rd ranked conference. Based on RPI they would both finish in the bottom half of the league.

UTEP has the fan base and facilities, but nothing to show for it. Of they could get their basketball program back to consistently making the tournament they'd be a good add, but as of now they bring nothing. Rice even less so. I'd rather add Texas State.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, FormerFrog said:

With the awful shape the basketball conference is in, I was thinking how much UTEP and RICE would help the situation. Mike Rhoades is making Rice basketball relevant. They are 22-11 this year. Tim Floyd always has UTEP competitive. They tied for 3rd in their conference this year.

I can't help but think how much it will help the membership to play games in both California and Texas. Those 2 states are mammoths in the recruiting game.

The MWC has to do something!

9886480.jpg

A school like UTEP is instantly better in the MWC, playing amongst its historical rivals. They have tended to recruit California as much as Texas. The Miners offer National Champion pedigree and would help the MWC's "powers" New Mexico and UNLV regain their footing.

THE MWC IS A ONE BID CONFERENCE!!! THINK ABOUT THAT!

If the MWC is going to go "all-in" on streaming games, then UTEP and Rice wont be cutting into anyone's pie. If anything they'll be expanding the pie, with viewership in a much more populous region than the MWC currently inhabits.

I think that is a good point that going digital changes the dynamic of expansions.  If you aren't relying on TV Markets to hope that will get more money, if you have a more engaged online fan base then the smaller town schools like Texas State would be a better option than Rice.  Tex St with over 32k in students would make the MW more $$ from the digital platform that Rice would.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, MWC Tex said:

I think that is a good point that going digital changes the dynamic of expansions.  If you aren't relying on TV Markets to hope that will get more money, if you have a more engaged online fan base then the smaller town schools like Texas State would be a better option than Rice.  Tex St with over 32k in students would make the MW more $$ from the digital platform that Rice would.

Except those Texas State fans are more engaged with Longhorns, Aggies, Red Raiders sports....

In the end it just doesn't matter because my university will get whatever it wants and be on the inside on any incarnation of whatever conference it chooses and whatever incarnation of the NCAA or BCS that arises. Our ego only got bigger with the Pac-10, SEC and Big 10 trying to get us to join their conference.

Look, why don't you just be quiet before my university buys yours and closes it just for spite?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, UTAlrightGuy said:

Except those Texas State fans are more engaged with Longhorns, Aggies, Red Raiders sports....

Actually, not as much as before since they have move to FBS and the Sunbelt.  Put them in the MW and they'll be even more engaged being in a much higher ranked conference.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...