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Nevada Convert

OT: Have you seen any coaches wearing WP buttons?

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2 hours ago, happycamper said:

Vanian, do you have any idea what "White Privilege" means?

Yes I do. And the whole "white guilt" thing is indoctrination bullsh-t that serves no real purpose than to continue to divide. It is not a bridge, but a barrier. I'm supposed to feel guilty because nature and life aren't "fair"? Seriously?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-exhaustion-of-american-liberalism-1488751826?mod=e2two

" White guilt is not angst over injustices suffered by others; it is the terror of being stigmatized with America’s old bigotries—racism, sexism, homophobia and xenophobia. To be stigmatized as a fellow traveler with any of these bigotries is to be utterly stripped of moral authority and made into a pariah. The terror of this, of having “no name in the street” as the Bible puts it, pressures whites to act guiltily even when they feel no actual guilt. White guilt is a mock guilt, a pretense of real guilt, a shallow etiquette of empathy, pity and regret.  "

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1 hour ago, happycamper said:

I don't think that acknowledging that white people don't have to deal with racism is "extreme and ridiculous"...

That is NOT the meaning behind "White Privilege". You are spinning so hard sh-ts about to fly out of your pockets...

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1 hour ago, Nevada Convert said:

Dude, you can spin it and frame it any way you want to make yourself feel better. In this case, the meaning of this particular button per the folks that are pushing it is what I just described as a public self shaming of yourself for having gotten where you are in life. It's like admitting you've been a cheater progressing in life and now you feel bad about it and want to make amends for it.  It doesn't surprise me at all that you dig this. It's right up your social left wing alley (right, you're a moderate, LOL ?). 

This is where it started:

http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/elizabethtown-college-students-wearing-white-pins-remind-them-white-privilege

 

This is actually quite funny.  Extreme left wing nuts who are so far left that they circle around into being extreme right.  Politics is so strange.  

After giving this more thought, I question the validity in this article and its true purpose.  A small private college in a very predominate white area, yet they supposedly were Democrats to give it a pass?  That doesn't pass the smell test.  

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2 hours ago, Nevada Convert said:

Now that would make a lot of sense. However, I thought it was white, but I could always find video of it. I clicked on a news story about it a month ago,  so it jumped out at me when I saw it. 

The way the button meaning was explained to me was that it was more of a kind of public self shaming of yourself and acknowledgement to having had benefits that blacks didn't have getting to where you are in life......and of course feeling bad/guilty about it. Yes, it's extreme and ridiculous. 

I wholeheartedly acknowledge that my Eurocentric racial identity largely lent itself to an easier path over the course my life than many (virtually all?) black men in this country.

To ignore this fact would be both ignorant of our history and disrespectful to those individuals and groups who have been historically persecuted or discriminated against over the course of our nation's history.

But do I feel "bad" or "guilty" about it? :blink:

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK no. That's just f*cktarded. I'm not responsible for it.

Nonetheless, I most certainly owe the respect and consideration, both to my fellow Americans and to anybody in this great country in pursuit of what our Founding Fathers described as our inalienable rights - as human beings - to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, to acknowledge the deltas in our respective paths that this country has provided.

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1 hour ago, Nevada Convert said:

Dude, you can spin it and frame it any way you want to make yourself feel better. In this case, the meaning of this particular button per the folks that are pushing it is what I just described as a public self shaming of yourself for having gotten where you are in life. It's like admitting you've been a cheater progressing in life and now you feel bad about it and want to make amends for it.  It doesn't surprise me at all that you dig this. It's right up your social left wing alley (right, you're a moderate, LOL ?). 

This is where it started:

http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/elizabethtown-college-students-wearing-white-pins-remind-them-white-privilege

 

It isn't "public shaming". It's a show of support... kind of like how, say, a straight person with a rainbow tinged avatar after Pulse isn't publically shaming their heterosexuality. 

1 hour ago, Monty93 said:

The fact that you are differentiating between groups based on their skin color seems racist unto itself. 

It isn't. 

1 hour ago, Monty93 said:

It seems contradictory to identify a group by its race and then claim that group isn't subject to stereotyping and different treatment based on that same variable.  

It isn't, again. 

White people were (and are) the vast majority and so had and have the vast majority of money, political votes, and institutional power. The fact that the definition of "white people" was created by white people to exclude all the not white people makes it kinda difficult to claim contradiction. 

1 hour ago, Monty93 said:

 

In the current political climate, people of all skin colors are subject to judgment based on appearance. 

Sure. Only white people have the historical precedent, the history of no state and majority sponsored persecution, the vast majority of the wealth, and the overwhelming numbers to mean that discrimination to white people is both minimal and less harmful than discrimination from white people. 

1 hour ago, Monty93 said:

White people may not experience the same consequences as other skin colors, but to say they are completely free of stereotyping based on their skin color is incorrect.  For example, look at the term "redneck" - is that not a pejorative term applied exclusively to a certain group based on their skin color/race?

I'm not saying that racism isn't a problem - I'm just saying that no one is free from having to deal with it.

See above. 

1 hour ago, Nevada Convert said:

There's no need to start this nonsense. 

Then why do you start this nonsense in about every thread you post in?

27 minutes ago, Wyovanian said:

That is NOT the meaning behind "White Privilege". You are spinning so hard sh-ts about to fly out of your pockets...

Yes, it is.

Vanian, you commented on it without actually knowing what white privilege is. Big surprise, considering you didn't actually know what social justice was either. 

Frankly when it comes to social issues that affect areas that aren't Laramie, Jackson, and Park City you tend to be uninformed and a bit tone deaf. 

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1 hour ago, LoboMan59 said:

It's in your post reply to happy camper!!!

LOL, nice try. If you're a left winger, fine. I bring it up because of an ongoing thing where HC has lots of way left social views, yet he tries to sell himself as a social moderate......as if the far left is the new moderate middle majority, now. That's his deal and it is what it is......and also funny as hell. 

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3 minutes ago, happycamper said:

It isn't "public shaming". It's a show of support... kind of like how, say, a straight person with a rainbow tinged avatar after Pulse isn't publically shaming their heterosexuality. 

It isn't. 

It isn't, again. 

White people were (and are) the vast majority and so had and have the vast majority of money, political votes, and institutional power. The fact that the definition of "white people" was created by white people to exclude all the not white people makes it kinda difficult to claim contradiction. 

Sure. Only white people have the historical precedent, the history of no state and majority sponsored persecution, the vast majority of the wealth, and the overwhelming numbers to mean that discrimination to white people is both minimal and less harmful than discrimination from white people. 

See above. 

Then why do you start this nonsense in about every thread you post in?

Yes, it is.

Vanian, you commented on it without actually knowing what white privilege is. Big surprise, considering you didn't actually know what social justice was either. 

Frankly when it comes to social issues that affect areas that aren't Laramie, Jackson, and Park City you tend to be uninformed and a bit tone deaf. 

? ? You're making my stomach hurt. 

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3 minutes ago, Nevada Convert said:

LOL, nice try. If you're a left winger, fine. I bring it up because of an ongoing thing where HC has lots of way left social views, yet he tries to sell himself as a social moderate......as if the far left is the new moderate middle majority, now. That's his deal and it is what it is......and also funny as hell. 

When have I ever sold myself as a social moderate?

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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Just now, Nevada Convert said:

WTF?, you've been pimping yourself as a moderate forever and we've been arguing about it forever. Did you hit your head on something? 

I am a moderate, convert. The thing is, most issues aren't social ones and, for that matter, in social issues you tend to not have moderates. Nobody is kinda for gay marriage or kinda against abortion. 

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1 minute ago, happycamper said:

I am a moderate, convert. The thing is, most issues aren't social ones and, for that matter, in social issues you tend to not have moderates. Nobody is kinda for gay marriage or kinda against abortion. 

There's my boy!!!  Thought I lost you for a minute.  ? ? 

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36 minutes ago, happycamper said:

It isn't "public shaming". It's a show of support... kind of like how, say, a straight person with a rainbow tinged avatar after Pulse isn't publically shaming their heterosexuality. 

It isn't. 

It isn't, again. 

White people were (and are) the vast majority and so had and have the vast majority of money, political votes, and institutional power. The fact that the definition of "white people" was created by white people to exclude all the not white people makes it kinda difficult to claim contradiction. 

Sure. Only white people have the historical precedent, the history of no state and majority sponsored persecution, the vast majority of the wealth, and the overwhelming numbers to mean that discrimination to white people is both minimal and less harmful than discrimination from white people. 

See above. 

Then why do you start this nonsense in about every thread you post in?

Yes, it is.

Vanian, you commented on it without actually knowing what white privilege is. Big surprise, considering you didn't actually know what social justice was either. 

Frankly when it comes to social issues that affect areas that aren't Laramie, Jackson, and Park City you tend to be uninformed and a bit tone deaf. 

I spent 25 years in LV and have spent plenty of time in cities from NYC to LA, Seattle to Birmingham. I've seen it. Hell, the one Super Bowl I've been to was in Detroit, so don't try to claim any moral high ground in this. It's about shaming and guilt, and is hardly analogous to the "Rainbow" brigades. It is empty, vapid symbolism donned by people who don't understand a world outside of the one conveniently defined by identity politics that conforms to how they think the world is rather than how the world actually is. It is a prop for a narrative with a genesis in a movement that was based on fiction, not facts ( "Hands up, don't shoot!" -it never happened).

You can claim it's analogous to people showing solidarity for LGBT all day long, but the one thing the LGBT community didn't do was call their movement "Straight Privilege". It is not and never was a movement of solidarity for a repressed class or strata, but one that anchors shame and guilt to something someone can't control nor has has no choice in. Quite honestly, if you have to explain the "message" it's SUPPOSED to send, the message has failed. But if you look at its nature, the nature and meaning of the words, "White Privilege", it's meaning is not transitive or terribly representative. Its meaning is going to be interpreted by the majority of intelligent people as exactly what it appears. Was the "movement" actually THAT myopic about its choice of words? I don't think so. So now it's time to issue talking points and send them out to "explain the REAL meaning" of "White Privilege". I call bullsh-t...

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13 minutes ago, Nevada Convert said:

WTF?, you've been pimping yourself as a moderate forever on social and some economic issues, and we've been arguing about it forever. Did you hit your head on something? 

Forget it. The majority of extremists either live in an echo chamber and have no real frame of reference, or they're just spouting talking points to paint themselves as such, attempting to bend the map on where their views really lie.

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6 minutes ago, Wyovanian said:

I spent 25 years in LV and have spent plenty of time in cities from NYC to LA, Seattle to Birmingham. I've seen it. Hell, the one Super Bowl I've been to was in Detroit, so don't try to claim any moral high ground in this. It's about shaming and guilt, and is hardly analogous to the "Rainbow" brigades. It is empty, vapid symbolism donned by people who don't understand a world outside of the one conveniently defined by identity politics that conforms to how they think the world is rather than how the world actually is. It is a prop for a narrative with a genesis in a movement that was based on fiction, not facts ( "Hands up, don't shoot!" -it never happened).

You can claim it's analogous to people showing solidarity for LGBT all day long, but the one thing the LGBT community didn't do was call their movement "Straight Privilege". It is not and never was a movement of solidarity for a repressed class or strata, but one that anchors shame and guilt to something someone can't control has has no choice in. Quite honestly, if you have to explain the "message" it's SUPPOSED to send, the message has failed. But if you look at its nature, the nature and meaning of the words, "White Privilege", it's meaning is not transitive or terribly representative. Its meaning is going to be interpreted by the majority of intelligent people as exactly what it appears. Was the "movement" actually THAT myopic about its choice of words? I don't think so. So now it's time to issue talking points and send them out to "explain the REAL meaning" of "White Privilege". I call bullsh-t...

...

White privilege isn't a movement. It wasn't invented by BLM. It's the concept that white people, generally, have less shit to deal with in the US than other races. That goes from "white people don't have to deal with racism" to "white people in general have institutional cultural knowledge of how to deal with people in positions of authority" to "white people's grandparents weren't denied access to lucrative careers or housing, meaning that white people who make the same amount as people of color tend to still be better off. "

4 minutes ago, Wyovanian said:

Forget it. The majority of extremists either live in an echo chamber and have no real frame of reference, or they're just spouting talking points to paint themselves as such, attempting to bend the map on where their views really lie.

You think I live in the extremist liberal echo chamber of Casper, Wyoming? Furthermore, you think the idea that "white people don't have to deal with racism" is extremist?

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2 hours ago, Nevada Convert said:

LOL, nice try. If you're a left winger, fine. I bring it up because of an ongoing thing where HC has lots of way left social views, yet he tries to sell himself as a social moderate......as if the far left is the new moderate middle majority, now. That's his deal and it is what it is......and also funny as hell. 

I am a moderate. Some views are to the left, some views are to the right, most views are meh... just thought it was odd you telling me there's no need to go there... when you, as a moderator, went there with HC. 

I personally dont care for the left wing/right wing, you have to be one or the other mentality. What does bother me is when one side claims to be more American or more Christian or more whatever, because of party affiliation or leanings... and seems to be

maimly the right claiming that... we are all Americans and entitled to our own opinions. That's what OUR forefathers, fought for.

"Make a mistake once and it becomes a lesson, make the same mistake twice and it becomes a choice."
 

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3 hours ago, Wyovanian said:

That is NOT the meaning behind "White Privilege". You are spinning so hard sh-ts about to fly out of your pockets...

Yeah, you don't know what white privilege is, and you seem to be conflating it with white guilt, which are very different ideological concepts.

On 12/1/2016 at 12:26 PM, WyomingCoog said:

I own a vehicle likely worth more than everything you own combined and just flew first class (including a ticket for a 2 1/2 year old), round trip to Las Vegas and I'm not 35 yet. When you accomplish something outside of finishing a book, let me know. When's the last time you saw a 2 year old fly first class in their own seat? Don't tell me about elite.  

28 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

I’d happily compare IQ’s with you any day of the week.

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1 minute ago, youngrebelfan40 said:

Yeah, you don't know what white privilege is, and you seem to be conflating it with white guilt, which are very different ideological concepts.

So you're trying to say that "White Privilege" doesn't leverage white guilt?

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4 hours ago, happycamper said:

I don't think that acknowledging that white people don't have to deal with racism is "extreme and ridiculous"...

There was a time when I would have been on the opposite side of the argument but after MWCboarding I completely agree.  I do not think people should be shamed into checking their privilege but should be educated as to what non white people experience in America.  Something about empathy for your fellow man.

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3 hours ago, Wyovanian said:

Yes I do. And the whole "white guilt" thing is indoctrination bullsh-t that serves no real purpose than to continue to divide. It is not a bridge, but a barrier. I'm supposed to feel guilty because nature and life aren't "fair"? Seriously?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-exhaustion-of-american-liberalism-1488751826?mod=e2two

" White guilt is not angst over injustices suffered by others; it is the terror of being stigmatized with America’s old bigotries—racism, sexism, homophobia and xenophobia. To be stigmatized as a fellow traveler with any of these bigotries is to be utterly stripped of moral authority and made into a pariah. The terror of this, of having “no name in the street” as the Bible puts it, pressures whites to act guiltily even when they feel no actual guilt. White guilt is a mock guilt, a pretense of real guilt, a shallow etiquette of empathy, pity and regret.  "

I think I hear you but I gotta admit that I don't see how you tie this back to the "black inferiority" comment. 

I'm open to debate/dialogue and learning new things.

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12 minutes ago, Wyovanian said:

So you're trying to say that "White Privilege" doesn't leverage white guilt?

It can, but there's not a direct correlation between the two, and they can easily exist separately and are not tied to each other definitionally. White privilege is an objective fact and exists independently of any emotion white people might have about it whether it be guilt, disbelief, incredulity, anger, etc. 

 

You can be aware of white privilege and/or seek to rectify it without being "guilty" about it. In fact, people of color who actually are dealing with the uneven consequences of white privilege rarely have patience for "white guilt" at all: it's a self-serving, frankly quite stupid emotion that doesn't help anybody. 

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On 12/1/2016 at 12:26 PM, WyomingCoog said:

I own a vehicle likely worth more than everything you own combined and just flew first class (including a ticket for a 2 1/2 year old), round trip to Las Vegas and I'm not 35 yet. When you accomplish something outside of finishing a book, let me know. When's the last time you saw a 2 year old fly first class in their own seat? Don't tell me about elite.  

28 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

I’d happily compare IQ’s with you any day of the week.

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