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Jwherb

First Senate Plan to Replace ACA - the 2017 Patient Freedom Act!

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3 hours ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

I would be all for a baby ban.  The world is over populated as it is.  Selective breeding would be great.

If only we could go back in time and prevent Drumpf's parents from breeding 

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I can't sing and I can't dance but I can make romance - Macho Man Randy Savage

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18 hours ago, SJSUMFA2013 said:

But I don't agree with repealing it unless it's replaced with single-payer. 

I also would have voted for it because the only other option was nothing. 

I'm gonna be fine. It's the poor who will suffer.

Can you explain what a single payer system looks like? Considering that outside the VA and IHS, the government has no hospitals, employs no physicians, nurses or techs. They have no pharmacies, no infrastructure to provide utilization management or administer benefits. You do realize that Medicare and Medicaid uses outside vendors, insurance companies and hospitals to provide every service that a modern healthcare delivery system needs.

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13 hours ago, jackmormon said:

So someone can walk into the ER and get ongoing cancer treatment? Ongoing physical therapy or long term mental health counseling?

I did it twice yesterday, the cancer thing. Also set up someone for methadone maintenance. All through the ER, because in reality, Medicaid expansion through the ACA doesn't increase their access to care. Not enough doctors to go around much less willing to take more patients that might break even. 

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10 hours ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

Hardy har har, do you have a better way to do it genius?

Easy there, big guy.  Just being silly.

But since you asked...

Maybe we could cultivate a society and economic system based on our best qualities of compassion, understanding and love instead of shareholder value and greed?

It's clear that the quest for increasing profits produced tremendous advancements but what is not clear is how much those things have actually held us back. 

 

 

 

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I'm curious to hear what profit margins that people think should OK with insurance companies? I'm not defending them as I generally hate dealing with them. The average health insurer has about a 3-4 % margin and big pharma makes about 18% and generic companies at 5%.Most investors I know wouldn't bother with anything that doesn't pay them at least a 20+% ROI. 

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1 hour ago, toonkee said:

Easy there, big guy.  Just being silly.

But since you asked...

Maybe we could cultivate a society and economic system based on our best qualities of compassion, understanding and love instead of shareholder value and greed?

It's clear that the quest for increasing profits produced tremendous advancements but what is not clear is how much those things have actually held us back. 

 

 

 

You're still being silly with me, right?

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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39 minutes ago, NMpackalum said:

I'm curious to hear what profit margins that people think should OK with insurance companies? I'm not defending them as I generally hate dealing with them. The average health insurer has about a 3-4 % margin and big pharma makes about 18% and generic companies at 5%.Most investors I know wouldn't bother with anything that doesn't pay them at least a 20+% ROI. 

Good point but we have to say that those are company profits so your ROI stuff doesn't really equate. In addition to likely holding stock in their companies, the CEO's and upper management types could be making tens of millions of dollars.

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2 hours ago, NMpackalum said:

Can you explain what a single payer system looks like? Considering that outside the VA and IHS, the government has no hospitals, employs no physicians, nurses or techs. They have no pharmacies, no infrastructure to provide utilization management or administer benefits. You do realize that Medicare and Medicaid uses outside vendors, insurance companies and hospitals to provide every service that a modern healthcare delivery system needs.

France or Germany, most likely. Both systems are hybrid models where the government acts as an insurer, but most health care providers remain private. That differs from the UK or Canada, where the government runs the entire system.

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Guest RoscoesDad

Can someone point out the passage in the Hippocratic Oath that medicine and healthcare is a for profit venture and treatment of people in need of care is based on whether or not the person in need of medical care can afford to pay for the treatment?  Been looking for this, can't seem to find it. 

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3 minutes ago, RoscoesDad said:

Can someone point out the passage in the Hippocratic Oath that medicine and healthcare is a for profit venture and treatment of people in need of care is based on whether or not the person in need of medical care can afford to pay for the treatment?  Been looking for this, can't seem to find it. 

Yeah....it's immediately following the section in the constitution that says free healthcare is a right. 

CSU AD Jack Graham - “If you get outside our borders, no one knows who we are. I was in Phoenix (last week) for the Mountain West meetings and there was a reception with all of the athletic directors. The bartender said to me, ‘Colorado State, where are you guys, Boulder?’ I’ve gotten that all my career. No one knows us outside our own boundaries."

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1 hour ago, NMpackalum said:

Can you explain what a single payer system looks like? Considering that outside the VA and IHS, the government has no hospitals, employs no physicians, nurses or techs. They have no pharmacies, no infrastructure to provide utilization management or administer benefits. You do realize that Medicare and Medicaid uses outside vendors, insurance companies and hospitals to provide every service that a modern healthcare delivery system needs.

I'm no expert, but I like what they have in Germany. Everyone is covered but no one is prevented from seeking care outside the system. We can argue about the details all day, but if you need medical care, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to walk into a hospital and get it without worrying about a bill later.

I liken it to the public education system. As a whole, public schools aren't great, but they're better than not sending your kids to school at all. If you don't like the public schools in your area, and you can afford to, there are plenty of private schools nearby that will happily take your money. Public hospitals would likely not be on the cutting edge of medical care, but going to one would be better than ignoring that lump on your testicle. If you don't like the public hospitals in your area, there will be plenty of private hospitals nearby that will gladly take your money.

Again, I am not qualified in any way to write any of that into law nor do I know the ins and outs of healthcare well enough to say whether such a plan is feasible, but I do know that other countries have a similar system and I see no reason, other than money, that we can't do the same thing. And if money is preventing us from providing people with healthcare regardless of their ability to pay, I think that says something pretty dark and ugly about America. 

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2 minutes ago, SJSUMFA2013 said:

 but if you need medical care, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to walk into a hospital and get it without worrying about a bill later.

So if you need food, should there be any reason you can't just walk into a steakhouse and order a filet mignon, not pay for it and not have to worry about the bill later?

CSU AD Jack Graham - “If you get outside our borders, no one knows who we are. I was in Phoenix (last week) for the Mountain West meetings and there was a reception with all of the athletic directors. The bartender said to me, ‘Colorado State, where are you guys, Boulder?’ I’ve gotten that all my career. No one knows us outside our own boundaries."

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4 minutes ago, SJSUMFA2013 said:

I liken it to the public education system. As a whole, public schools aren't great, but they're better than not sending your kids to school at all. If you don't like the public schools in your area, and you can afford to, there are plenty of private schools nearby that will happily take your money. Public hospitals would likely not be on the cutting edge of medical care, but going to one would be better than ignoring that lump on your testicle. If you don't like the public hospitals in your area, there will be plenty of private hospitals nearby that will gladly take your money.

Sounds like you are pretty clearly stating that private entities are always better than the public option.....interesting. 

CSU AD Jack Graham - “If you get outside our borders, no one knows who we are. I was in Phoenix (last week) for the Mountain West meetings and there was a reception with all of the athletic directors. The bartender said to me, ‘Colorado State, where are you guys, Boulder?’ I’ve gotten that all my career. No one knows us outside our own boundaries."

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1 hour ago, NMpackalum said:

I'm curious to hear what profit margins that people think should OK with insurance companies? I'm not defending them as I generally hate dealing with them. The average health insurer has about a 3-4 % margin and big pharma makes about 18% and generic companies at 5%.Most investors I know wouldn't bother with anything that doesn't pay them at least a 20+% ROI. 

It depends on how the profit margins are manipulated or distorted. 

The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears; it was their final, most essential command.

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, RoscoesDad said:

Can someone point out the passage in the Hippocratic Oath that medicine and healthcare is a for profit venture and treatment of people in need of care is based on whether or not the person in need of medical care can afford to pay for the treatment?  Been looking for this, can't seem to find it. 

Come on, that's just being silly and it delegitimizes your "side." 

 

The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears; it was their final, most essential command.

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, WyomingCoog said:

Sounds like you are pretty clearly stating that private entities are always better than the public option.....interesting. 

If your brain can't understand the nuance in what he said, sure. 

Why not try again?

The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears; it was their final, most essential command.

 

 

 

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Guest RoscoesDad
3 minutes ago, Jwherb said:

Come on, that's just being silly and it delegitimizes your "side." 

 

I don't understand. If it's silly and useless, why do doctors still take this oath then? 

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Just now, WyomingCoog said:

So if you need food, should there be any reason you can't just walk into a steakhouse and order a filet mignon, not pay for it and not have to worry about the bill later?

Yeah man. A yearly checkup and a filet mignon are the same thing. 

Just now, WyomingCoog said:

Sounds like you are pretty clearly stating that private entities are always better than the public option.....interesting. 

They often are. The point is not that the public option is better but that it exists for those who need it. 

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4 minutes ago, SJSUMFA2013 said:

Yeah man. A yearly checkup and a filet mignon are the same thing.  

Oh you're using sarcasm...I get it....Your point is that the filet is much cheaper, so it's a bad comparison. You're right. 

CSU AD Jack Graham - “If you get outside our borders, no one knows who we are. I was in Phoenix (last week) for the Mountain West meetings and there was a reception with all of the athletic directors. The bartender said to me, ‘Colorado State, where are you guys, Boulder?’ I’ve gotten that all my career. No one knows us outside our own boundaries."

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