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9 hours ago, Rosegreen said:

 

He either starts winning or he’s toast. 

He's coming off 20 wins. That's winning.

The team will probably get 20 wins again this season. 

Back to back 20 win seasons and an NIT will get him extended.

Anything past that and UNLV will probably have to extend and give a sizable raise.

 

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3 minutes ago, qwelish said:

He's coming off 20 wins. That's winning.

The team will probably get 20 wins again this season. 

Back to back 20 win seasons and an NIT will get him extended.

Anything past that and UNLV will probably have to extend and give a sizable raise.

 

Funny how our standards have seemingly fallen. People wanted Rice out before he started losing, myself included, even though he was winning 20 games a season. And now 20 wins will be peachy enough to get an extension. Go figure. 

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Rice took over a tournament team all the way to only winning18 games the year before he was asked to leave.

He was also on pace to win about 18 or less his last season.

I didnt want him termed. Not at that time for sure. I wanted that recruiting class.

Menzies took over a dumpster fire when no one wanted the job.

This year might be 'meh', but 2019 recruiting class could potentially change the landscape of the program in a big way.

And it will be added to a solid foundation of 4 year guys.

Its completely different.

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14 hours ago, qwelish said:

He's coming off 20 wins. That's winning.

The team will probably get 20 wins again this season. 

Back to back 20 win seasons and an NIT will get him extended.

Anything past that and UNLV will probably have to extend and give a sizable raise.

 

That’s not winning, at least by UNLV standards. Shit, I could win 20 games with a charmin soft schedule. 

 

We barely got 20 wins and we should have won 23-24 with a postseason appearance with the class he brought in, in addition to the soft schedule. 

It does not take five years to rebuild at UNLV.  It’s pretty cut and dry for Menzies and what the goals are. If he wants to do a long term rebuild, he won’t last much longer.  The natives will get very restless if Reno continues dominating the MWC and making tournament runs. 

 

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27 minutes ago, Rosegreen said:

That’s not winning, at least by UNLV standards. Shit, I could win 20 games with a charmin soft schedule. 

 

We barely got 20 wins and we should have won 23-24 with a postseason appearance with the class he brought in, in addition to the soft schedule. 

It does not take five years to rebuild at UNLV.  It’s pretty cut and dry for Menzies and what the goals are. If he wants to do a long term rebuild, he won’t last much longer.  The natives will get very restless if Reno continues dominating the MWC and making tournament runs. 

 

I have to disagree. Bringing highly rated recruiting class does not immediately turn around a program. Especially with freshman. If that was the case why did Rice with two better recruiting classes his last two years still wind up with the same 8-10 MWC record as Menzies last year? They key is getting the core group to return and become juniors and seniors. UNLV needs more Anthony Marshall's and not Anthony Bennett's! IMO that's why Rice ultimately failed and that was constant turnover. UNLV lost McCoy and return Juiston, Mbacke, Beck and Hardy and all played meaningful minutes last year. They will be better because of that.    

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33 minutes ago, PrimeReb said:

I have to disagree. Bringing highly rated recruiting class does not immediately turn around a program. Especially with freshman. If that was the case why did Rice with two better recruiting classes his last two years still wind up with the same 8-10 MWC record as Menzies last year? 

Coaching. Good coaching can cover up a lot of flaws on a team. Talent can’t cover up bad coaching. 

Rice was an ace recruiter and once (Schroyer) his X and O’s guy left it was apparent that development and in game adjustments were not there anymore despite the talent. 

Menzies is in the same boat except he doesn’t have an x and o’s guy. The defense was actually pathetic and there was a moment in the MWCT where Menzies should have called timeout but didn’t. He said he looked at the wrong scoreboard and thought he had none. That’s ok at the junior college level, but not at this level.

Stuff like that in addition to the major slide last season concern me and wiped out any good feelings I had about the Reno win.

The other issue, and it’s the elephant in the room. Nobody at UNLV athletics wants to talk about it but the emergence of pro sports in Las Vegas is gonna put pressure on basketball. Nobody is gonna want to watch a middling CBK team against Utah Valley State. 20 wins on a cupcake schedule isn’t gonna draw flies to a unlv basketball game.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Rosegreen said:

Coaching. Good coaching can cover up a lot of flaws on a team. Talent can’t cover up bad coaching. 

Rice was an ace recruiter and once (Schroyer) his X and O’s guy left it was apparent that development and in game adjustments were not there anymore despite the talent. 

Menzies is in the same boat except he doesn’t have an x and o’s guy. The defense was actually pathetic and there was a moment in the MWCT where Menzies should have called timeout but didn’t. He said he looked at the wrong scoreboard and thought he had none. That’s ok at the junior college level, but not at this level.

Stuff like that in addition to the major slide last season concern me and wiped out any good feelings I had about the Reno win.

The other issue, and it’s the elephant in the room. Nobody at UNLV athletics wants to talk about it but the emergence of pro sports in Las Vegas is gonna put pressure on basketball. Nobody is gonna want to watch a middling CBK team against Utah Valley State. 20 wins on a cupcake schedule isn’t gonna draw flies to a unlv basketball game.

 

 

Actually, I wasn't impressed with Schoyer at all. IMO the best coach on Rice's staff was Hutson and the program unraveled after he left. In addition, if Rice would have listen to Hutson who had Ty Wallace wrapped up and ready to commit to UNLV and instead following Schoyers advice and bringing in Cook and Morgan (both never panned out) the point guard problem would have been solved for 4 years. I guess we will see if I am right in my assessment with Hutson taking over the Fresno program.     

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57 minutes ago, PrimeReb said:

Actually, I wasn't impressed with Schoyer at all. IMO the best coach on Rice's staff was Hutson and the program unraveled after he left. In addition, if Rice would have listen to Hutson who had Ty Wallace wrapped up and ready to commit to UNLV and instead following Schoyers advice and bringing in Cook and Morgan (both never panned out) the point guard problem would have been solved for 4 years. I guess we will see if I am right in my assessment with Hutson taking over the Fresno program.     

Hutson brought in Reinhardt, who was a total cancer/primadonna. 

Schroyer is good at x’s and o’s, Hutson never was. Recruiting wasn’t an issue under Rice, it was the in game adjustments and development. Hutson never helped in either area. It’s why he never was promoted to HC at SDSU. 

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2 hours ago, Rosegreen said:

Hutson brought in Reinhardt, who was a total cancer/primadonna. 

Schroyer is good at x’s and o’s, Hutson never was. Recruiting wasn’t an issue under Rice, it was the in game adjustments and development. Hutson never helped in either area. It’s why he never was promoted to HC at SDSU. 

Sorry. I was never impressed with Schroyer. Even at Wyoming. He wasn't very good. Also, are you saying that Brian Dutcher wasn't the hand picked successor to Steve Fisher and that wasn't the reason Hutson wasn't considered for the SDSU job? Ok. Also, Katin Reinhardt wasn't the reason Rice was fired. But the failure to pull the trigger on top notch 4 star pg in Ty Wallace, who ended up a 4 year starter at Cal, 1st team All-Pac 12, and who ran pg on a 12th seed Cal team that defeated a favored 5th seed UNLV team in the ncaa tourney was a tremendous recruiting failure! Clearly, the failure to land a 4 year starter pg contributed in a big way to Rice's firing at UNLV. Hutson will be a better head coach than both Rice and Schroyer.        

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3 hours ago, PrimeReb said:

Sorry. I was never impressed with Schroyer. Even at Wyoming. He wasn't very good. Also, are you saying that Brian Dutcher wasn't the hand picked successor to Steve Fisher and that wasn't the reason Hutson wasn't considered for the SDSU job? Ok. Also, Katin Reinhardt wasn't the reason Rice was fired. But the failure to pull the trigger on top notch 4 star pg in Ty Wallace, who ended up a 4 year starter at Cal, 1st team All-Pac 12, and who ran pg on a 12th seed Cal team that defeated a favored 5th seed UNLV team in the ncaa tourney was a tremendous recruiting failure! Clearly, the failure to land a 4 year starter pg contributed in a big way to Rice's firing at UNLV. Hutson will be a better head coach than both Rice and Schroyer.        

Hutson will be back in an assistants chair in 3 years. 

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On 5/23/2018 at 7:19 PM, Jersey Rebels said:

Funny how our standards have seemingly fallen. People wanted Rice out before he started losing, myself included, even though he was winning 20 games a season. And now 20 wins will be peachy enough to get an extension. Go figure. 

Funny if you can't see how vastly different the state of the programs were when both coaches took over.

Rice. The absolute best position the program has ever been in when a coach has left.

Menzies. Literal rock bottom.

20 wins year 2 with half the roster with emergency recruits. Yeah, not bad.

 

Shit, sure we had a dominant front court, but we also had a small ass back court who couldn't shoot very well and was more inconsistent than I've ever seen anyone before.

Menzies got the most out of what he had. They beat Reno in Reno. It was a one possession game in the MWCT when they lost by 5 to Reno and our personnel as a whole just wasn't very good defensively.

 

No reason to go Rebel Robert over the future, but no reason to go full retard either.

 

On 5/24/2018 at 9:49 AM, Rosegreen said:

That’s not winning, at least by UNLV standards. Shit, I could win 20 games with a charmin soft schedule. 

 

We barely got 20 wins and we should have won 23-24 with a postseason appearance with the class he brought in, in addition to the soft schedule. 

It does not take five years to rebuild at UNLV.  It’s pretty cut and dry for Menzies and what the goals are. If he wants to do a long term rebuild, he won’t last much longer.  The natives will get very restless if Reno continues dominating the MWC and making tournament runs. 

 

 

Menzies is getting to year 5 no matter what cry baby natives want.

Year 3 will still have its up and downs.

Year 4 will be his upperclassman. No more emergency scrubs. No need for projects getting solid minutes.

Year 5 will be the start of the train. The balance of talent, experience and recruiting. No need for constant rebuilding in this stage.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, BestintheWest said:

Funny if you can't see how vastly different the state of the programs were when both coaches took over.

Rice. The absolute best position the program has ever been in when a coach has left.

Menzies. Literal rock bottom.

20 wins year 2 with half the roster with emergency recruits. Yeah, not bad.

 

Shit, sure we had a dominant front court, but we also had a small ass back court who couldn't shoot very well and was more inconsistent than I've ever seen anyone before.

Menzies got the most out of what he had. They beat Reno in Reno. It was a one possession game in the MWCT when they lost by 5 to Reno and our personnel as a whole just wasn't very good defensively.

 

No reason to go Rebel Robert over the future, but no reason to go full retard either.

 

 

Menzies is getting to year 5 no matter what cry baby natives want.

Year 3 will still have its up and downs.

Year 4 will be his upperclassman. No more emergency scrubs. No need for projects getting solid minutes.

Year 5 will be the start of the train. The balance of talent, experience and recruiting. No need for constant rebuilding in this stage.

 

 

The only way you get rid of Menzies at this stage is if he was Kevin Stallings bad.

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42 minutes ago, BestintheWest said:

Funny if you can't see how vastly different the state of the programs were when both coaches took over.

Rice. The absolute best position the program has ever been in when a coach has left.

Menzies. Literal rock bottom.

20 wins year 2 with half the roster with emergency recruits. Yeah, not bad.

 

Shit, sure we had a dominant front court, but we also had a small ass back court who couldn't shoot very well and was more inconsistent than I've ever seen anyone before.

Menzies got the most out of what he had. They beat Reno in Reno. It was a one possession game in the MWCT when they lost by 5 to Reno and our personnel as a whole just wasn't very good defensively.

 

No reason to go Rebel Robert over the future, but no reason to go full retard either.

I was responding to the absurd idea that he deserves an extension for winning 20 games. He hasn't shown shit to deserve an extension except have the same problems that Rice did. Prove something, then talk about an extension. If he doesn't get 20 wins this year, what then, it's another learning year? But 2019's the year! Oh, we didn't win then either. 2020! 2021! 2022! Prove something, then get an extension. If you think he has proven something, that is fine, but I do not. And others do not, as well. 

 

No reason to insult people and call them retards for disagreeing with what you think. Understand what people are actually saying. I am not saying to fire him. He has five years to prove himself, that's fair. He's on year three. 

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2 hours ago, Jersey Rebels said:

I was responding to the absurd idea that he deserves an extension for winning 20 games. He hasn't shown shit to deserve an extension except have the same problems that Rice did. Prove something, then talk about an extension. If he doesn't get 20 wins this year, what then, it's another learning year? But 2019's the year! Oh, we didn't win then either. 2020! 2021! 2022! Prove something, then get an extension. If you think he has proven something, that is fine, but I do not. And others do not, as well. 

 

No reason to insult people and call them retards for disagreeing with what you think. Understand what people are actually saying. I am not saying to fire him. He has five years to prove himself, that's fair. He's on year three. 

I agree with you.  He has yet to prove anything.  But, don't sweat about guys like Bestofthewest because he really has no credibility with me.  He couldn't see the shit show in his Davy boy's year 2.  Hell he was full retard over Davy through year 4.  He talks a lot of shit like he knows what is going to happen but, he is blind as phuck.

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I just want to see what all the new players look like. In particular the back court.

Menzies teams have stuck together. There have been no internal issues. There have been no discipline issues. 

All but like four guys are four year players at UNLV. And two of them are two or three year players. 

Theres no comparison between the two programs at all. So far the trajectory for MM is up.

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I think its a little misleading when people act like an empty Mack equals the program leaking money. It may not be as lucrative as it should or could be, but most of those seats are corporate owners who cant give tix away to see Mississippi Valley State or Suffolk state or whoever. 

They need to lower prices on tix and do more giveaways for tix to drum up support again. Remember when John Robinson used to bring the entire football team in to multiple games each year? Has Sanchez done that at all? It was pretty consistent with JRob.

Even still, Menzies will probably be up for extension this season. Doesnt it hurt recruiting if your coach only has a year or two on his contract? I thought so.

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I'm going to chime in here on the Menzies debate. Of course the first year was a complete throwaway, with a desperation roster. Last year there were still several of those players on the team, including the entire backcourt (D2 JUCO :blink:) and a wing that played huge roles for this season. There was a 5* 7 footer who although was good offensively, didn't play a lick of defense. However, there were some bright spots, some of which came because of McCoy's commitment. With Juiston, Hardy, Beck and Diong to build on, and with a new backcourt that could be better even as freshmen than those who have moved on (although Johnson's sr leadership showed up at times), then I will wait to see what Marvin does with a team that doesn't have to rely on those desperation pickups. If he can grab a couple of the highly talented local kids for the next year that would be a huge upgrade in talent from what he's had, and he'll need to put up or shut up and walk away.

I've made no secret that Menzies was not my first choice, but given what he came in to, I'm holding my judgement until after this year. But I want to see him light a fire defensively, maybe the players coming in will be more willing to play defense, but it not, I will be done with him. If they don't want to make the effort (win or lose), then I don't want to make the effort to drive in there to go to the games.

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