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NDSU to MWC....wheres the Invite?

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The way Hawaii is looking financially I really dont think its a long shot that Idaho could replace them once they either have to go Independent or drop Football entirely. NMSU is already looking at Conference USA apparently as with UAB bringing back football they need another Western team to balance out the divisions.

And in regards to a few FCS schools making the jump the teams ive mentioned (Montana, Montana State, NDSU and SDSU) have all invested heavily in their programs and facilities and all have been upgraded to easily meet FBS standards and would be much nicer then current existing MWC ones. Also unlike several MWC programs they have no issues bringing fans to games, cant tell how many times ive watched a MWC game with a good chunk of empty seats visible, it wouldnt be a problem for these teams.

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55 minutes ago, utgrizfan said:

The way Hawaii is looking financially I really dont think its a long shot that Idaho could replace them once they either have to go Independent or drop Football entirely.

UH's athletic budget is $43 million, with 44% subsidized by the university and student fees.  Idaho's athletic budget is $19 million, with 50% subsidized by the university and student fees.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

And that's with UH's football ticket revenue having plunged thanks to foolishly retaining coaching disaster Norm Chow for four horrific seasons.  If Nick Rolovich can get the Warriors back to winning games, at least at Aloha Stadium, ticket sales will recover and UH's finances will be fine.

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You guys need to get more fiber in your diet and learn to take a joke.  The comment was meant to illustrate how a non-entity like BSU made a major unexpected turnaround.  The comments about the fans were a little jab because you must admit, some of the less civilized BSU fans are complete pricks.  They claimed, for ages, that they were tired of getting the high and mighty treatment from other programs, only to entirely embrace the high and mighty treatment themselves.  The previous iteration of the MWC had BSU begging to get in for what seems like years, now certain BSU fans spend their time shouting down programs that merely aspire to membership someday in the future, if the circumstances justify it.

As I have said numerous times, if we build up some steam and win some good games, the facility upgrades will be easy to justify.  I have not once said that our slump deserves reward.

Also, this talk of Hawaii being broke and about to get the boot is complete and unmitigated bullshizz.  They've had a few rough seasons, but they'll bounce back.  Plus, as noted before, they are a draw for most FBS teams to visit.

Finally, IFH, your position is hopelessly and completely skewed.  Recall. you incorrectly postulate that dropping down to FCS would make Idaho an automatic contender.  Now you say that even if we put $100 million into facilities, it wouldn't be enough.  False.  We could easily build the arena and increase the dome to MWC standards with much less.  Your statement is preposterous.

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7 hours ago, utgrizfan said:

The way Hawaii is looking financially I really dont think its a long shot that Idaho could replace them once they either have to go Independent or drop Football entirely. NMSU is already looking at Conference USA apparently as with UAB bringing back football they need another Western team to balance out the divisions.

And in regards to a few FCS schools making the jump the teams ive mentioned (Montana, Montana State, NDSU and SDSU) have all invested heavily in their programs and facilities and all have been upgraded to easily meet FBS standards and would be much nicer then current existing MWC ones. Also unlike several MWC programs they have no issues bringing fans to games, cant tell how many times ive watched a MWC game with a good chunk of empty seats visible, it wouldnt be a problem for these teams.

What facilities do those schools have that are nicer than existing MWC facilities?  Other than maybe SJSU's facilities every school in the MWC has those schools beat.

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3 hours ago, VandalPride97 said:

You guys need to get more fiber in your diet and learn to take a joke.  The comment was meant to illustrate how a non-entity like BSU made a major unexpected turnaround.  The comments about the fans were a little jab because you must admit, some of the less civilized BSU fans are complete pricks.  They claimed, for ages, that they were tired of getting the high and mighty treatment from other programs, only to entirely embrace the high and mighty treatment themselves.  The previous iteration of the MWC had BSU begging to get in for what seems like years, now certain BSU fans spend their time shouting down programs that merely aspire to membership someday in the future, if the circumstances justify it.

As I have said numerous times, if we build up some steam and win some good games, the facility upgrades will be easy to justify.  I have not once said that our slump deserves reward.

Also, this talk of Hawaii being broke and about to get the boot is complete and unmitigated bullshizz.  They've had a few rough seasons, but they'll bounce back.  Plus, as noted before, they are a draw for most FBS teams to visit.

Finally, IFH, your position is hopelessly and completely skewed.  Recall. you incorrectly postulate that dropping down to FCS would make Idaho an automatic contender.  Now you say that even if we put $100 million into facilities, it wouldn't be enough.  False.  We could easily build the arena and increase the dome to MWC standards with much less.  Your statement is preposterous.

I'm saying if Idaho had $100 million approved for facilities upgrades, I still don't think they'd be a top 5 MWC prospect. I could be totally wrong on that, jmo. 

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7 minutes ago, IanforHeisman said:

I'm saying if Idaho had $100 million approved for facilities upgrades, I still don't think they'd be a top 5 MWC prospect. I could be totally wrong on that, jmo. 

Please IFH, you guys are facilities whores.  Especially BSU fans because whether you recognize it or not, many of them simply have an axe to grind with a rival.  We could have PAC12 facilities and BSU would still refuse an in-state trip out of spite. For the same reason, BSU would still oppose Idaho moving into its conference.  Spite.  That's all it is.

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4 hours ago, VandalPride97 said:

Please IFH, you guys are facilities whores.  Especially BSU fans because whether you recognize it or not, many of them simply have an axe to grind with a rival.  We could have PAC12 facilities and BSU would still refuse an in-state trip out of spite. For the same reason, BSU would still oppose Idaho moving into its conference.  Spite.  That's all it is.

I think that every college that plays  FBS football is a bit of a "facility whore" because that is the arms race of D1A football. Here is one good example, the Fresno Bee was lamenting how far FSU had fallen behind in their facilities.   I understand not liking it, but what can you do?  

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1 minute ago, MAD MACGYVER said:

I think that every college that plays  FBS football is a bit of a "facility whore" because that is the arms race of D1A football. Here is one good example, the Fresno Bee was lamenting how far FSU had fallen behind in their facilities.   I understand not liking it, but what can you do?  

Take 3 fingers of scotch and ask yourself "why are we playing someone else's game?"

 

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Just now, VandalPride97 said:

Take 3 fingers of scotch and ask yourself "why are we playing someone else's game?"

 

We all know why institutions play this game; for a chance to get hold of the golden goose. That is not why players play per se, but good facilities are necessary to get the best players, everyone knows that, otherwise it wouldn't happen.  The choice to enter the fray, ultimately, is up to donors, the state, and its tax payers to decide if this game is worth subsidizing.  

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16 hours ago, utgrizfan said:

The way Hawaii is looking financially I really dont think its a long shot that Idaho could replace them once they either have to go Independent or drop Football entirely. NMSU is already looking at Conference USA apparently as with UAB bringing back football they need another Western team to balance out the divisions.

And in regards to a few FCS schools making the jump the teams ive mentioned (Montana, Montana State, NDSU and SDSU) have all invested heavily in their programs and facilities and all have been upgraded to easily meet FBS standards and would be much nicer then current existing MWC ones. Also unlike several MWC programs they have no issues bringing fans to games, cant tell how many times ive watched a MWC game with a good chunk of empty seats visible, it wouldnt be a problem for these teams.

The MWC would just move on without Hawaii football and stay at 11.  Idaho is that much of a drag.  Hawaii pays for themselves with their PPV TV deal.  Idaho doesn't pay for anything and just takes.  Just like SJSU.

Additionally, I think Montana has a nice little thing going, and their stadium is neat but it's not better than the ones here.

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1 hour ago, MAD MACGYVER said:

We all know why institutions play this game; for a chance to get hold of the golden goose. That is not why players play per se, but good facilities are necessary to get the best players, everyone knows that, otherwise it wouldn't happen.  The choice to enter the fray, ultimately, is up to donors, the state, and its tax payers to decide if this game is worth subsidizing.  

Sure, of course.  I'm just saying that the mid-major arms race meets critical mass at a certain level and that level is nowhere near what it takes to make it over the hump to P5 (with a few notable exceptions).  

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1 hour ago, Jack Bauer said:

The MWC would just move on without Hawaii football and stay at 11.  Idaho is that much of a drag.  Hawaii pays for themselves with their PPV TV deal.  Idaho doesn't pay for anything and just takes.  Just like SJSU.

Additionally, I think Montana has a nice little thing going, and their stadium is neat but it's not better than the ones here.

That's great man, thanks for weighing in.  I generally don't take advice from guys who are virgins at 18 and don't know what scotch tastes like, but I'll give your opinion the serious consideration it merits.

 

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I've got no beef with you.. I respect any poster that was around during the WAC board days. 

 

Ive accepted that Boise St won't be joining a P5 conference u less there is a bomb dropped, in which case they probably just turn into the P4 and add another best of the rest. I just don't see any room for Idaho at the MWC table. Just like Boise and the P5, just too much working against them and better options out there.

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16 minutes ago, VandalPride97 said:

Sure, of course.  I'm just saying that the mid-major arms race meets critical mass at a certain level and that level is nowhere near what it takes to make it over the hump to P5 (with a few notable exceptions).  

I am not so sure.  The history of realignment says otherwise.

2005: USF, Louisville, and Cincy were added to the Big East from CUSA.  And fairly, only Louisville of this group currently resides in a Power conference, but this is just to show precedent.

2010: Utah joins the PAC12 from MWC.

2012: TCU joins BIg12 from MWC/BE.  Of course TCU was previously part of a power conference in the SWC.  But again, they were a mid-major for 16 years before getting a bid.

2012: Louisville joins the ACC from the AAC.

 

These are just the modern examples of mid-majors joining Power conferences.  And with BYU, UCONN and Cincy in the mix, it will just catalyze more G5 teams to play the P5 game in hopes of an invite.  The MWC gets largely ignored because all P5 conferences, other than the PAC12, of course, are looking east, where the people are.

 

 

 

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38 minutes ago, MAD MACGYVER said:

I am not so sure.  The history of realignment says otherwise.

2005: USF, Louisville, and Cincy were added to the Big East from CUSA.  And fairly, only Louisville of this group currently resides in a Power conference, but this is just to show precedent.

2010: Utah joins the PAC12 from MWC.

2012: TCU joins BIg12 from MWC/BE.  Of course TCU was previously part of a power conference in the SWC.  But again, they were a mid-major for 16 years before getting a bid.

2012: Louisville joins the ACC from the AAC.

 

These are just the modern examples of mid-majors joining Power conferences.  And with BYU, UCONN and Cincy in the mix, it will just catalyze more G5 teams to play the P5 game in hopes of an invite.  The MWC gets largely ignored because all P5 conferences, other than the PAC12, of course, are looking east, where the people are.

 

Staying to the point, what were stadium size and academic standing?

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28 minutes ago, VandalPride97 said:

Staying to the point, what were stadium size and academic standing?

Here are the stadium capacities for all the relevant teams. I am not sure how to do an archival/historical search of academic levels for universities at the time of invite.  If anyone knows a credible source, I am open to enlightenment.

 

 

Staduim Capacities.PNG

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1 hour ago, MAD MACGYVER said:

Here are the stadium capacities for all the relevant teams. I am not sure how to do an archival/historical search of academic levels for universities at the time of invite.  If anyone knows a credible source, I am open to enlightenment.

 

 

Staduim Capacities.PNG

Interesting.  I think we have to rule out USF because they use an NFL stadium.  By that standard, Temple would have an incredible stadium.  Not sure if 2005 numbers are relevant because that was when stadiums were expanded because it was necessary, not so much for bragging rights.  I'm a bit surprised at Utah's venue.  TCU's stadium fits 50k.  

I guess the trend is that today, a program aspiring to P5 status needs, in order: (i) a strong TV market  (ii) a stadium holding more than 45k; (iii) wins; and (iv) enticing academics.

It certainly is an uphill climb, but not impossible.     Again, anything can happen when it comes to realignment.  Just look at the crazy ideas circulating now.

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3 hours ago, IanforHeisman said:

I've got no beef with you.. I respect any poster that was around during the WAC board days. 

 

Ive accepted that Boise St won't be joining a P5 conference u less there is a bomb dropped, in which case they probably just turn into the P4 and add another best of the rest. I just don't see any room for Idaho at the MWC table. Just like Boise and the P5, just too much working against them and better options out there.

I think BSU has a chance, but I think it lies in development within the BOR concept.  Multiple sources say the ACC is going to blow up.  That sets the stage for a P5 or BOR conference right there.  That could be ACC poaching everyone or it could be lots of schools moving toward the AAC or, less likely due to geography, the MWC.

Someone mentioned the loss of purity to the game occasioned by all this crap.  I think I agree with that sentiment.

 

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