B12 Expansion - Carpe Diem for MWC?

[masterfrog]

Just now, SleepingGiantsFan said:

You're talking in absolutes and one can't do that when it comes to conference realignment. As an example, if you are correct, for SJSU to jump to the AAC would be a plus for the AAC and a minus for the MW. Clearly, that would not be the case.

I agree and it doesn't work for the Big 12 either.  The Big 12 lost Nebraska, Missouri, Texas A&M and Colorado and replaced them with TCU and West Virginia and they are getting significantly higher payments than what they used to get.  The Big 12 is richer than ever, even in comparison with other conferences.

[GoCoAztec]

1 minute ago, SleepingGiantsFan said:

You're talking in absolutes and one can't do that when it comes to conference realignment. As an example, if you are correct, for SJSU to jump to the AAC would be a plus for the AAC and a minus for the MW. Clearly, that would not be the case.

You are talking in extremes, because no one views either SMU or Tulsa in the same light as SJSU.

But, to play your game, who would the MWC backfill with if we lost SJSU?

[SparkysDad]

13 minutes ago, Billings said:

The best of the rest national conference idea, I am sure, has been looked at and found to have no more TV money then the MWC or AAC has now, thus it has been discarded.  There can be no other reason it has not happened yet.

Maybe.  It makes sense to me (I've been around the media business my entire life) that a conference that literally would cover 4 time zones would provide a larger inventory of games that don't overlap.  The more games you can air, the more live sports inventory you would have.  That alone should take the TV value of the BOTR Conference above that of either the AAC or the MWC.

When you add what would be the best programs from each of those conferences, I believe it provides another uptick in value due to quality.  

I agree that it might not be a tremendous value for a network like ESPN, but if someone wanted to compete with ESPN, a multi-time zone conference provides far more air-able inventory for far less cost than a traditional, one- or two-time zone bound conference.  

Think of it from this perspective.  If you are a Pacific Time Zone viewer, you can watch Eastern Time Zone games that kick off locally in the early afternoon (1pm) at 10am Pacific.  Then at 2pm Pacific, you can catch the Central or Moutain Time Zone games that kick off at 3pm or 4pm local time.  Then at 6pm, you can pick up a late starting Pacific Time Zone game.  10am to 10pm of watching your conference's games exclusively.  Lots of value to the teams that get good start times locally and to the network that can fill an entire day with just one conference.  JMHO.

[SleepingGiantFan]

23 minutes ago, SparkysDad said:

I love revisionist history...the AAC teams refused Boise's 2nd deal.  Boise and SDSU were all set for the former Big East, then Tulane happened, removing any hope of a true western division.  When the MWC put together the "special" TV deal for Boise, Boise presented the same concept to the former Big East and was turned down.

Personally, I would have loved the nBE/AAC with a true western division, because it would have morphed into a multi-time zone Best of the Rest Conference, once the Big 12 started picking off teams.  The MWC and the AAC arguing which would be the best conference after a Big 12 raid is splitting hairs.  Both would be not particularly good, both would have terrible TV deals and both would continue to get further behind the P5.  

The Best of the Rest Conference with the top members from both the MWC and the AAC is the only savior for remaining good G5 programs if the B12 takes teams!

Absolutely correct. For example, I heard from a source inside the SDSU athletic department that when the school heard that Tulane had been added, they were irate. One, because even though SDSU and Boise hadn't joined yet so had no vote each nevertheless thought common courtesy would have dictated that they be contacted before the fact to allow the rest of the schools who could vote to know their opinion. And two, because just like 3/4 of the known world, they were aghast at the concept of adding such a dead weight to the conference. Further, the way it was handled is reputed to have been the straw which broke the camel's back as far as the C7 were concerned and the nBE/AAC has lost a lot of TV and NCAA tourney revenue with their departure.

But does that mean the AAC is no better than the MW? Not in the slightest. What it DOES mean is that rather than being a vastly superior conference, it is simply a little better than the MW. And Cincinnati and Houston or Memphis leaving isn't going to make the MW better either. At the most, it will bring the MW to the same level as the AAC. Either way, the MW as presently constituted isn't going to survive. Even if what's left of the AAC doesn't poach some MW schools, either a best of the rest conference will be formed out of the two or the MW's front rangers will start insisting on dumbass additions akin to the BE's adding Tulane and the western schools will hold an airport meeting.

[GoCoAztec]

2 minutes ago, masterfrog said:

I agree and it doesn't work for the Big 12 either.  The Big 12 lost Nebraska, Missouri, Texas A&M and Colorado and replaced them with TCU and West Virginia and they are getting significantly higher payments than what they used to get.  The Big 12 is richer than ever, even in comparison with other conferences.

First, the B12 would much rather have Nebraska, Missouri and even Colorado over any of the additions.  Good God, that's why those teams were able to move to a BETTER conference.  Second, your talking (with the exception of TCU) P5 to P5.  So here's your challenge:  What teams will the AAC add when they lose Cincinnati and Memphis that will result in a net addition to the AAC?

[SleepingGiantFan]

15 minutes ago, GoCoAztec said:

You are talking in extremes, because no one views either SMU or Tulsa in the same light as SJSU.

But, to play your game, who would the MWC backfill with if we lost SJSU?

Preferably, nobody. The MW doesn't earn enough from its football championship game to justify holding one. IIRC, the conference gets $1M from ESPN for holding the thing. Therefore, if SJSU were to leave and Hawaii were to go independent, the regular season TV revenue would be split just 10 ways and the 10 schools who remained would basically get just about exactly what they earn now.

But that's all academic. THIS MW can't survive whether it adds UTEP and Rice to go to 14, whether it remains at the current 12 or whether it goes down to 10.

[GoCoAztec]

1 minute ago, SleepingGiantsFan said:

Preferably, nobody. The MW doesn't earn enough from its football championship game to justify holding one. IIRC, the conference gets $1M from ESPN for holding the thing. Therefore, if SJSU were to leave and Hawaii were to go independent, the regular season TV revenue would be split just 10 ways and the 10 schools who remained would basically get just about exactly what they earn now.

But that's all academic. THIS MW can't survive whether it adds UTEP and Rice to go to 14, whether it remains at the current 12 or whether it goes down to 10.

Kinda proves my point.  I'm also against adding UTEP or Rice, but the MWC would probably have to add one of them if we lost SJSU.  You made the assumption that Hawaii is going independent, but there is no actual evidence that they want to be independent -- if I'm wrong please provide a link to a reputable source at the school.  So we'd end up adding a team that's even less desirable than SJSU.

The AAC will have to do the same when they lose Cinci + 1, and their adds will be SIGNIFICANTLY less valuable than either of those teams.

The AAC had the opportunity to permanently relegate the MWC to a lower level if they could have retained BSU and SDSU, but they didn't.  The MWC may have their chance to relegate the AAC when the B12 expands -- the question is will the MWC be able to accomplish what the AAC couldn't.   

[UNLV2001]

25 minutes ago, SleepingGiantsFan said:

Absolutely correct. For example, I heard from a source inside the SDSU athletic department that when the school heard that Tulane had been added, they were irate. One, because even though SDSU and Boise hadn't joined yet so had no vote each nevertheless thought common courtesy would have dictated that they be contacted before the fact to allow the rest of the schools who could vote to know their opinion. And two, because just like 3/4 of the known world, they were aghast at the concept of adding such a dead weight to the conference. Further, the way it was handled is reputed to have been the straw which broke the camel's back as far as the C7 were concerned and the nBE/AAC has lost a lot of TV and NCAA tourney revenue with their departure.

But does that mean the AAC is no better than the MW? Not in the slightest. What it DOES mean is that rather than being a vastly superior conference, it is simply a little better than the MW. And Cincinnati and Houston or Memphis leaving isn't going to make the MW better either. At the most, it will bring the MW to the same level as the AAC. Either way, the MW as presently constituted isn't going to survive. Even if what's left of the AAC doesn't poach some MW schools, either a best of the rest conference will be formed out of the two or the MW's front rangers will start insisting on dumbass additions akin to the BE's adding Tulane and the western schools will hold an airport meeting.

The BE adding Tulane was the point when we knew the BE was about to dissolve -

1) Tulane's addition meant that there was not going to be any BE western division - Fresno said no and there was no other MWC schools jumping ship

2) Tulane added nothing to the basketball which was really the BE strength and was the catalyst for the BE BB only schools to break away

3) When the remaining BE FB powers saw or even voted for Tulane, they immediately turned on Aresco & looked for immediate outs and some were given life lines which imploded the BE as we knew it

When Tulane was made public, it was obvious the BE was on life support

[Billings]

40 minutes ago, SparkysDad said:

Maybe.  It makes sense to me (I've been around the media business my entire life) that a conference that literally would cover 4 time zones would provide a larger inventory of games that don't overlap.  The more games you can air, the more live sports inventory you would have.  That alone should take the TV value of the BOTR Conference above that of either the AAC or the MWC.

When you add what would be the best programs from each of those conferences, I believe it provides another uptick in value due to quality.  

I agree that it might not be a tremendous value for a network like ESPN, but if someone wanted to compete with ESPN, a multi-time zone conference provides far more air-able inventory for far less cost than a traditional, one- or two-time zone bound conference.  

Think of it from this perspective.  If you are a Pacific Time Zone viewer, you can watch Eastern Time Zone games that kick off locally in the early afternoon (1pm) at 10am Pacific.  Then at 2pm Pacific, you can catch the Central or Moutain Time Zone games that kick off at 3pm or 4pm local time.  Then at 6pm, you can pick up a late starting Pacific Time Zone game.  10am to 10pm of watching your conference's games exclusively.  Lots of value to the teams that get good start times locally and to the network that can fill an entire day with just one conference.  JMHO.

Yea but TV can have a part of both conferences now.  Thus there is no new inventory.  Just repackaged in a new box but the same stuff inside.  ESPN sells off AAC inventory all the time and others also and have picked up part of the MWC inventory.  Thus they can already have those games.  When Boise and SDSU were looking you really think this was not looked at and discarded?

 

Besides a new conference will get no money from the current Playoff system for about 10 years, as per the contract,  and the MWC and AAC would not go away and would keep that playoff money they currently get via contract.  Only way to pull it off would be to disband either or both the MWC or AAC and I don't see that happening in any way shape or form.

[Billings]

16 minutes ago, GoCoAztec said:

Kinda proves my point.  I'm also against adding UTEP or Rice, but the MWC would probably have to add one of them if we lost SJSU.  You made the assumption that Hawaii is going independent, but there is no actual evidence that they want to be independent -- if I'm wrong please provide a link to a reputable source at the school.  So we'd end up adding a team that's even less desirable than SJSU.

The AAC will have to do the same when they lose Cinci + 1, and their adds will be SIGNIFICANTLY less valuable than either of those teams.

The AAC had the opportunity to permanently relegate the MWC to a lower level if they could have retained BSU and SDSU, but they didn't.  The MWC may have their chance to relegate the AAC when the B12 expands -- the question is will the MWC be able to accomplish what the AAC couldn't.   

Because the TV money is not there for this national conference idea of G5 schools

[roughrider]

20 minutes ago, Billings said:

Because the TV money is not there for this national conference idea of G5 schools

Exactly.  Espin is starving out CUSA, never gave anything to the MAC and is telling both of those conferences that relevance is not determined by population around the school.  Will they tell Aresco the same thing when his 2 best programs are snatched?   The MWC isn't going to have fun in 19 or whenever the current deal is over, either.    Maybe a best 12 of the best could swing a decent deal.  Maybe.

[RAMification]

11 hours ago, Nevada Convert said:

The AAC isn't backfilling shit from the MW. 1st the AAC wouldn't ever invite 2 western schools as full members and the AAC money isn't much different. In fact with major increased travel costs, they'd lose money and have all other sports in an FCS conference. Great deal Yay!!!

Don't confuse this discussion w/ cold hard facts... which could also include the Exit fess from either Conference & the Entrance fees when joining either Conference (which can be waived).  These can add $3M to $6M (what is the MWC Exit Fee these days?)... additional major expenses along w/ HUGE travel costs.   All of which make MWC teams poor candidates for the AAC... and visa-versa. 

Maybe they could snooker Mormon U into traveling East &/or paying their Entrance Fees??? 

[edluvar]

16 hours ago, Fowl said:

1) Houston is in

2) Why in hell would any AAC school want to come to the MW when we have unequal revenue sharing and the AAC doesn't???  No AAC school will EVER come to the MW with Boise taking most of the tv revenue.  The well is poisoned.  The AAC will backfill with two schools (perhaps two from the MW who are sick of unequal revenue sharing) and still get the same tv revenue because their tv contracts stipulate that there is no diminution in payouts unless more than four schools leave.

http://mweb.cbssports.com/ncaaf/writer/dennis-dodd/21913073/navy-to-retain-rights-to-home-games-through-17-in-new-big-east

 

navy has a special deal though. They keep the home rights to their football games til 2017

[RAMification]

6 hours ago, pokerider said:

Regardless if Houston were to get in the B12 or not, their not coming to MWC.  They've made it very clear they want to stay east.  The AAC would likely look at CUSA and SB schools.
There just isn't enough $ for the AAC to take MW schools or vice- versa and the geography makes it impossible for all sports anyway.  I just don't think there's enough $ and benefit for schools want to have some bastardized conference of football only and all sports schools, 

Also, I think if AAC lost 2 schools, a MW champ would be ranked higher than the AAC champ most years.  Boise got in Fiesta last year with 2 losses.
And besides Boise is not going to leave the deal they got going right now.

Good logic.  I agree, especially when u add in the extras expenses of Exit & Entrance fees.  Only BYU could make any sense for AAC to go after.  I'd love to see them try to deal w/ the Borg!!

[1066]

I found this interesting article on another blog.

      6 minutes ago, FauxPH90702 said:

BYU and BOISE STATE to the Sun Belt.

Story from the Logan Plain Dealer and Advertiser 12/11/2015

Walter M. Warbow sports reporter and editor

There are rumors from the MWC meetings that BYU and Boise State are looking for a new home. Several conferences were mentioned such as the Big12, AAC, CUSA and Big Sky. Both universities stated that they are running deficits in their sports programs and need to find a better and more stable source of funding. This would only be possible by finding a conference which distributes larger amounts to certain of it's members based on name recognition and their location in out of the way and sparsely populated areas.

The commissioner of the MWC Mr. C. Hair Thompson has stated that he will endeavor to find additional funding by redirecting funds from other universities in the conference and by bringing two well funded schools from Texas into the conference. Funding from all of these schools would be transferred to Boise State. In addition travel subsidies currently paid by the University of Hawaii would be redirected to Boise State.

My question to our members is would the Sun Belt be able to vie for the membership of Boise and BYU?

Comments please

[Guest #1Stunner]

3 hours ago, SleepingGiantsFan said:

Well, as I mentioned once before on this or the best SDSU board, I literally sat across the aisle from the bands at Viejas Arena a couple years ago in the NCAAs in which Tulsa played. There were several really impressive bands there those two days in terms of number of members, playing quality and most of all attire and inventiveness and Tulsa's band was completely minor league in comparison to the rest. So much so that I was embarrassed for them. If their facilities are of the same quality, they aren't even in the same stratosphere as "good."

That does reflect their athletic program, I agree.  Upon looking closer, their basketball facility is pretty good, but their football is pretty small.  

Here are what Tulsa's facilities look like:

Football (seats 30,000):

Basketball - (seats 8,350)

[jackmormon]

7 minutes ago, 1066 Devils Bridge said:

I found this interesting article on another blog.

      6 minutes ago, FauxPH90702 said:

BYU and BOISE STATE to the Sun Belt.

Story from the Logan Plain Dealer and Advertiser 12/11/2015

Walter M. Warbow sports reporter and editor

There are rumors from the MWC meetings that BYU and Boise State are looking for a new home. Several conferences were mentioned such as the Big12, AAC, CUSA and Big Sky. Both universities stated that they are running deficits in their sports programs and need to find a better and more stable source of funding. This would only be possible by finding a conference which distributes larger amounts to certain of it's members based on name recognition and their location in out of the way and sparsely populated areas.

The commissioner of the MWC Mr. C. Hair Thompson has stated that he will endeavor to find additional funding by redirecting funds from other universities in the conference and by bringing two well funded schools from Texas into the conference. Funding from all of these schools would be transferred to Boise State. In addition travel subsidies currently paid by the University of Hawaii would be redirected to Boise State.

My question to our members is would the Sun Belt be able to vie for the membership of Boise and BYU?

Comments please

[Guest #1Stunner]

2 hours ago, UNLV2001 said:

The BE adding Tulane was the point when we knew the BE was about to dissolve -

1) Tulane's addition meant that there was not going to be any BE western division - Fresno said no and there was no other MWC schools jumping ship

2) Tulane added nothing to the basketball which was really the BE strength and was the catalyst for the BE BB only schools to break away

3) When the remaining BE FB powers saw or even voted for Tulane, they immediately turned on Aresco & looked for immediate outs and some were given life lines which imploded the BE as we knew it

When Tulane was made public, it was obvious the BE was on life support

I think they added Tulane on the promise that Tulane would be doing some major upgrades---basically on the hope that Tulane would improve its athletics.

They did the same with Temple (hoping they'd improve after adding them), and Temple actually followed through.  Temple is pretty good in football and basketball now.  Tulane sucks and just fired their football coach this season.

Here are Tulane's facilities:

(30,000)

(4,100)

[Guest #1Stunner]

1 hour ago, RAMification said:

Good logic.  I agree, especially when u add in the extras expenses of Exit & Entrance fees.  Only BYU could make any sense for AAC to go after.  I'd love to see them try to deal w/ the Borg!!

What would there be for the AAC to deal with?

BYU would join as a football only if it joined the AAC (and probably get a few annual AAC basketball games as part of the deal).

That would be extremely easy for the AAC to deal with.

That said, I expect BYU to remain an Indy, and just continue to schedule the AAC and MWC in mid-October and November.  

No reason to join right now. Just keep a good thing going with ESPN.

[Nevada Convert]

2 hours ago, RAMification said:

Good logic.  I agree, especially when u add in the extras expenses of Exit & Entrance fees.  Only BYU could make any sense for AAC to go after.  I'd love to see them try to deal w/ the Borg!!

LOL, especially with no experience dealing with the Borg. The Borgonian management is a special breed, no doubt.