B12 Expansion - Carpe Diem for MWC?

[GoCoAztec]

1 hour ago, Jack Bauer said:

Why would you want any of these?  Houston makes sense.  The rest of those, not so much.

Cuz BYU will need a partner when they rejoin?

[pesik]

1) the AAC teams expect to lose 2, the aac commish has said so himself and says there is already a plan in place. why would something happening that everyone expects to happen suddenly cause anyone to jump

2) houston and smu almost certainly wont join the mwc. smu particularly hated playing in a only west conference and have made statements saying they wont do it again

3) the AAC isnt top heavy, MWC and C-usa teams always make comments like "when they lose teams why would anyone jump" .."if they lose teams theyll be worse than us"..the AAC isn't reliant on any 2 teams. think, it was just last year cincy and ucf were the hot teams, if cincy and ucf had been in the big 12 this year the AAC would have still been viewed as still the by far best G5...there is no combination of 2 that will deplete the AAC. 

4) SDSU never wanted to leave the aac, they were pushed into a corner. numerous MWC teams have publicly complained about the tv deal, not even including the bowl situation. the AAC contract are dramatically better in the sense of exposure (which the people in power care about) and the AAC is currently riding a perception high. the byu to big 12 dreams dies if two aac teams are added. important byu people have said they will never rejoin the MWC. the AAC teams refused boise's deal (boise tried pin the leagues against each other), not sure why they would go to situation where that deal is implanted 

if the big 12 took 2 eastern teams, the chances of the AAC making a true western division with byu/mwc teams  is dramatically higher the reverse

5) texas is huge, could fit 6-9 eastern states in it, the houston metro alone is as populated as maryland and west virginia put together. and houston has political pull in texas, i wouldnt rule out Houston to big 12 with no big 12 that close to the city just because "in texas"

[SleepingGiantFan]

8 hours ago, Nevada Convert said:

The AAC isn't backfilling shit from the MW.

Exactly.

The AAC will take only the best of the MW schools. The shit will remain behind.

[HighNTight_SD]

The AAC is looking for larger media markets and name brands when it comes to new members ... it will also be important for whatever teams added to not bring the conference down in basketball.

if they have to replace 2 members, their first target will be Army. That is not to say that Army will accept a football-only invite, but they are a target that brings a national brand as well as a team in the tri-state area market (New York/New Jersey/Pennsylvania) to compliment Temple. Having 2 (or more) football-only members (Navy & Army) would allow the AAC to play a full-conference home & home basketball schedule.

Another Eastern target could be UMass, who as a full-member could bring high-level basketball, and a 2nd team in the Boston/New England market to compliment UConn in the New York/New England market. A 3rd target talked about in the East is Old Dominion in the Virginia market. This would allow the AAC to give ECU a school in closer proximity. Adding either of these schools in the East and AFA in the West as football-only would also allow the AAC to play a full round-robin conference H&H schedule.

Western targets for the AAC would have to include AFA, CSU & BYU. I am also sure that they would be looking at Rice & UTSA as well. Any of these schools would fit in with their current West Div members of Navy, SMU, Tulsa, Tulane & Houston/Memphis.

If the AAC has to replace 2 of Cincy, Houston or Memphis ... their targets may not make sense to us in terms of football -- but knowing that media markets and national/regional branding play a huge part in their calculations may put it in perspective.

 

[SleepingGiantFan]

1 hour ago, Jack Bauer said:

Why would you want any of these?  Houston makes sense.  The rest of those, not so much.

Because some folks still think the more the merrier. Tulsa and SMU are just a half step above Rice and UTEP. All would give the MW additional anchors.

[Jack Bauer]

17 minutes ago, SleepingGiantsFan said:

Because some folks still think the more the merrier. Tulsa and SMU are just a half step above Rice and UTEP. All would give the MW additional anchors.

I always think it's funny when people here want to add <insert random suckwad Texas school besides Houston here> so the MWC can "get in to Texas".

Non P5 schools besides Houston don't get you in to Texas.  I would argue Houston gets you something, but nothing amazing, as far as "getting in to Texas". 

[klaw]

15 hours ago, renoskier said:

I think you guys are smoking crack; if anyone is invited,  Houston will be the first. Would love to somehow have them in the MWC but it ain't never gonna happen. 

 Houston  has no chance of getting into the Big 12 due to Texas politics and their location. Houston is already covered by the existing Texas universities.

Any new candidate must bring a new market and have more athletic success (Byu, Cincinnati and Boise).

One year does not equate to long term success. Houston needs to show consecutive and multiple years of success like TCU and Utah

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest #1Stunner]

26 minutes ago, SleepingGiantsFan said:

Because some folks still think the more the merrier. Tulsa and SMU are just a half step above Rice and UTEP. All would give the MW additional anchors.

SMU and Tulsa at least spend money to try and have good Athletics.   Both have good facilities.   And both have good basketball programs that have been bring NCAA tourney credits (SMU recent punishment not withstanding). 

[GoCoAztec]

28 minutes ago, pesik said:

1) the AAC teams expect to lose 2, the aac commish has said so himself and says there is already a plan in place. why would something happening that everyone expects to happen suddenly cause anyone to jump

2) houston and smu almost certainly wont join the mwc. smu particularly hated playing in a only west conference and have made statements saying they wont do it again

3) the AAC isnt top heavy, MWC and C-usa teams always make comments like "when they lose teams why would anyone jump" .."if they lose teams theyll be worse than us"..the AAC isn't reliant on any 2 teams. think, it was just last year cincy and ucf were the hot teams, if cincy and ucf had been in the big 12 this year the AAC would have still been viewed as still the by far best G5...there is no combination of 2 that will deplete the AAC. 

4) SDSU never wanted to leave, they were pushed into a corner. numerous MWC teams have publicly complained about the tv deal, not even including the bowl situation. the AAC contract are dramatically better in the sense of exposure (which the people in power care about) and the AAC is currently riding a perception high. the byu to big 12 dreams dies if two aac teams are added. important byu people have said they will never rejoin the MWC. the AAC teams refused boise's deal (boise tried pin the leagues against each other), not sure why they would go to situation where that deal is implanted 

if the big 12 took 2 eastern teams, the chances of the AAC making a true western division with byu/mwc teams  is dramatically higher the reverse

5) texas is huge, could fit 6-9 eastern states in it, the houston metro alone is as populated as maryland and west virginia put together. and houston has political pull in texas, i wouldnt rule out Houston to big 12 with no big 12 that close to the city just because "in texas"

1.  Agree, but as they say, everyone has a plan until they are punched in the face.  The MWC has to be ready to deliver said punch. 

2.  The MWC can offer Houston the same deal we offered Boise.  The AAC can't or won't make the same offer.  The next AAC TV deal without Cinci, Memphis and Houston won't be worth dog poop.  No one cares about SMU, but they and Tulsa would have to decide whether they want to stay in a weaker east coast conference or move to better, closer conference.  My guess is that both would try to position themselves as Houston's partner.

3.  The AAC has two teams that has shown excellence in FB for the last 15 years: Cincinnati and Houston.  The Tigers are up now, but In the last 15 years Memphis has more losing seasons than winning seasons.  After those 3 it's a drop off to the next tier.  Temple and Navy are having their once in a while (lifetime for Temple) great years, but neither will be nearly as good next year.  UCF and USF go up and down like a yo-yo.  ECU is usually solid, but not top tier.  The AAC is just as top heavy as the rest of the G5.

4.  BSU and SDSU left the MWC for the Big East, but the current AAC couldn't hold on to either of them.  SDSU was offered to stay without Boise, but didn't.  The reason that Houston might move to the MWC from a weakened AAC is BECAUSE they would receive a deal like Boise's.  The backfills from CUSA or MAC won't be able to replace Cinci or Memphis in appeal and TV $ -- the AAC will be down and could be out if Houston jumps.

5.  Agree that Houston might go with Cinci instead of Memphis.  This is not as good for the MWC raid, but is even worse for the AAC as they would lose their best 2 schools.  MWC still comes out on top, and has 2 good partners (SMU and Tulsa, and possibly Memphis) for BYU if they decide to rejoin. 

[Jack Bauer]

Just now, klaw said:

 Houston  has no chance due to Texas politics and their location. Houston is already covered by the existing Texas universities.

Any new candidate must bring a new market and have more athletic success (Byu, Cincinnati and Boise).

One year does not equate to long term success.

 

 

 

 

 

That's why I laugh when Memphis is mentioned.  If Memphis is the choice, then they are idiots.  So, since we already know they're idiots, that means Memphis is the choice.

[Guest #1Stunner]

11 minutes ago, Jack Bauer said:

I always think it's funny when people here want to add <insert random suckwad Texas school besides Houston here> so the MWC can "get in to Texas".

Non P5 schools besides Houston don't get you in to Texas.  I would argue Houston gets you something, but nothing amazing, as far as "getting in to Texas". 

Disagree.   When TCU was in the MWC, they were a great conference member.   It was great playing regular games in Texas and helped recruiting. 

[Guest #1Stunner]

14 minutes ago, Jack Bauer said:

That's why I laugh when Memphis is mentioned.  If Memphis is the choice, then they are idiots.  So, since we already know they're idiots, that means Memphis is the choice.

Memphis has a great basketball program.  Their basketball would improve the Big12.

Their football sucks and can't sustain success.   Terrible fan support.   

Memphis = UNLV. 

[GoCoAztec]

Regarding the possible MWC addition of Memphis/SMU/Tulsa.  In CFB there is a small, finite number of schools.  Whenever one of these schools moves from one conference to another, their market share moves with them.  This becomes a plus for the gaining conference and a minus for the losing conference.  Therefore, the MWC has to look at both how much these schools would bring to the MWC AND how much their departure would hurt our competition -- the AAC.  Yes, the AAC would get backfills, but they would be less desirable schools.

IF (big if) Cincinnati and Memphis go to the B12 and the MWC is able to poach Houston and SMU or Tulsa, the MWC would clearly be the best G5.  Add BYU and it would be the defacto "best of the rest".

 

[Cougar King]

Playing in Pacific and Mountain Time Zones in front of very few fans since most MWC schools can't draw more than 25k would practically kill our football and traveling like that doesn't do any favors for our Olympic sports. The academics in the MWC are also dismal.

Everybody knows that playing east is by far superior to playing out west with the Pac 12 being the exception. There's a reason why the MWC is going after Rice and UTEP.

[SparkysDad]

1 hour ago, pesik said:

 

4) ... the AAC teams refused boise's deal (boise tried pin the leagues against each other), not sure why they would go to situation where that deal is implanted 

 

I love revisionist history...the AAC teams refused Boise's 2nd deal.  Boise and SDSU were all set for the former Big East, then Tulane happened, removing any hope of a true western division.  When the MWC put together the "special" TV deal for Boise, Boise presented the same concept to the former Big East and was turned down.

Personally, I would have loved the nBE/AAC with a true western division, because it would have morphed into a multi-time zone Best of the Rest Conference, once the Big 12 started picking off teams.  The MWC and the AAC arguing which would be the best conference after a Big 12 raid is splitting hairs.  Both would be not particularly good, both would have terrible TV deals and both would continue to get further behind the P5.  

The Best of the Rest Conference with the top members from both the MWC and the AAC is the only savior for remaining good G5 programs if the B12 takes teams!

[Billings]

5 minutes ago, Cougar King said:

Playing in Pacific and Mountain Time Zones in front of very few fans since most MWC schools can't draw more than 25k would practically kill our football and traveling like that doesn't do any favors for our Olympic sports. The academics in the MWC are also dismal.

Everybody knows that playing east is by far superior to playing out west with the Pac 12 being the exception. There's a reason why the MWC is going after Rice and UTEP.

Yep.  Just killed TCU

[I am Ram]

6 minutes ago, Cougar King said:

The academics in the MWC are also dismal.

Houston would fit right in with the lower half of the Mountain West, so don't worry about that.

[Billings]

8 minutes ago, SparkysDad said:

I love revisionist history...the AAC teams refused Boise's 2nd deal.  Boise and SDSU were all set for the former Big East, then Tulane happened, removing any hope of a true western division.  When the MWC put together the "special" TV deal for Boise, Boise presented the same concept to the former Big East and was turned down.

Personally, I would have loved the nBE/AAC with a true western division, because it would have morphed into a multi-time zone Best of the Rest Conference, once the Big 12 started picking off teams.  The MWC and the AAC arguing which would be the best conference after a Big 12 raid is splitting hairs.  Both would be not particularly good, both would have terrible TV deals and both would continue to get further behind the P5.  

The Best of the Rest Conference with the top members from both the MWC and the AAC is the only savior for remaining good G5 programs if the B12 takes teams!

Funny.  The AAC TV deal failed to deliver what was promised by their commish and then they lost BCS status.  That is why Boise started to look back.

 

The best of the rest national conference idea, I am sure, has been looked at and found to have no more TV money then the MWC or AAC has now, thus it has been discarded.  There can be no other reason it has not happened yet.  No g5 conference will ever have a great TV deal no matter what mix of teams left are in it.  That ship has sailed

[SleepingGiantFan]

33 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

SMU and Tulsa at least spend money to try and have good Athletics.   Both have good facilities.   And both have good basketball programs that have been bring NCAA tourney credits (SMU recent punishment not withstanding). 

Well, as I mentioned once before on this or the best SDSU board, I literally sat across the aisle from the bands at Viejas Arena a couple years ago in the NCAAs in which Tulsa played. There were several really impressive bands there those two days in terms of number of members, playing quality and most of all attire and inventiveness and Tulsa's band was completely minor league in comparison to the rest. So much so that I was embarrassed for them. If their facilities are of the same quality, they aren't even in the same stratosphere as "good."

[SleepingGiantFan]

12 minutes ago, GoCoAztec said:

Regarding the possible MWC addition of Memphis/SMU/Tulsa.  In CFB there is a small, finite number of schools.  Whenever one of these schools moves from one conference to another, their market share moves with them.  This becomes a plus for the gaining conference and a minus for the losing conference.  Therefore, the MWC has to look at both how much these schools would bring to the MWC AND how much their departure would hurt our competition -- the AAC.  Yes, the AAC would get backfills, but they would be less desirable schools.

IF (big if) Cincinnati and Memphis go to the B12 and the MWC is able to poach Houston and SMU or Tulsa, the MWC would clearly be the best G5.  Add BYU and it would be the defacto "best of the rest".

You're talking in absolutes and one can't do that when it comes to conference realignment. As an example, if you are correct, for SJSU to jump to the AAC would be a plus for the AAC and a minus for the MW. Clearly, that would not be the case.