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sdsuphilip4

MWC Basketball Recruiting 2015-2016

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I said the same thing about the depth, and I got labeled a troll.

And as I said before, before Shrigs' injury, depth wasn't an issue.

However, his importance to the squad is such that without him, depth is somewhat of an issue now.

And FWIW, IMO you're a troll not for starting that thread, but rather for prematurely starting it for the reason as stated above. And yes, you have been trolling your own fan base for some time now.

In other words, if the bridge fits...

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And were you referring to MGC, or to recruiting in general? Because either way, you are/were empirically wrong.

But I'm guessing you're used to that by now.

UNLV is recruiting better than any team in the Mountain West.  That's not even debatable.

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And as I said before, before Shrigs' injury, depth wasn't an issue.

However, his importance to the squad is such that without him, depth is somewhat of an issue now.

And FWIW, IMO you're a troll not for starting that thread, but rather for prematurely starting it for the reason as stated above. And yes, you have been trolling your own fan base for some time now.

In other words, if the bridge fits...

They will be down to seven or eight players by the end of the season.

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UNLV is recruiting better than any team in the Mountain West.  That's not even debatable.

Yeah no.

According to Verbal Commits, our recruits have an average ranking of 3.744 stars, while the average ranking of UNLV recruits is 3.487 stars.

But you're right in that it's not debatable.

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the devil is in the details; yes you are right, SDSU has the highest star rating on players over UNLV but UNLV gets hammered by Ike Nwamu and Tyrell Greene with each only entering college with a 2 star rating.  Also unlv's incoming class of Poyser, Jones, and Zimm is better (on the star level) than Hemsley.

UNLV
seagers - 3.7
cook - 2.7
ike - 2
Obekpa - 4
Tyrell Green - 2
Ben Carter - 3
Goodluck - 4.3
Morgan - 4.7
Cornish - 3
McCaw - 3
Poyser - 4
DJ - 4
Zimm - 5

SDSU
shep - 4.3
Chol - 4
Spencer - 3
D. Williams - 3
Shrigley - 3.3
D allen - 4
MGC - 4.3
Kell - 3
Pope - 4.3
Hoetzel - 2.7
Hemsley - 4
Z - 4
Narain - 4

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I think it's silly to say SDSU is recruiting like UNLV. 4 star derrick Jones ranked around 30 different than a guy ranked in the 80s or 100s just for an example. I'm certain most everyone understands that.

Exactly.  The average UNLV recruit is ranked higher than the average San Diego State recruit.

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Exactly.  The average UNLV recruit is ranked higher than the average San Diego State recruit.

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the devil is in the details; yes you are right, SDSU has the highest star rating on players over UNLV but UNLV gets hammered by Ike Nwamu and Tyrell Greene with each only entering college with a 2 star rating.  Also unlv's incoming class of Poyser, Jones, and Zimm is better (on the star level) than Hemsley.

UNLV
seagers - 3.7
cook - 2.7
ike - 2
Obekpa - 4
Tyrell Green - 2
Ben Carter - 3
Goodluck - 4.3
Morgan - 4.7
Cornish - 3
McCaw - 3
Poyser - 4
DJ - 4
Zimm - 5

SDSU
shep - 4.3
Chol - 4
Spencer - 3
D. Williams - 3
Shrigley - 3.3
D allen - 4
MGC - 4.3
Kell - 3
Pope - 4.3
Hoetzel - 2.7
Hemsley - 4
Z - 4
Narain - 4

I emphasized the important part in really big, bold letters for the thinking impaired.

 

 

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Okay. As we seem to have a couple Rebs here with some rather basic glaring mathematical deficiencies, I think it's time to bring our slower participants in this discussion up to speed.

You see, phnumbers (and Wild), there is an arithmetic function called a "mean average." By calculating the "mean average" of a set of numbers, we can compare what might appear to some Rebs as confusing sets of data by reducing them to single numbers. To calculate the "mean average," we will sum (add) a set of numbers, and then divide that sum by how many numbers we added together.

I know - it sounds really confusing. So let's apply this principle in an application relevant to this thread.

In this instance, the set of numbers we are going to compare are the ratings of the rosters of SDSU and UNLV. Sig has already provided us with the respective ratings for each team. Now, as there are multiple rating services (Scout, Rivals, ESPN), get this - these numbers are themselves "mean averages." I know...

UmpOi.gif

Now to calculate the mean average of UNLV's roster, we first add the numbers together: 3.7+2.7+2+4+2+3+4.3+4.7+3+3+4+4+5=45.4

We then divide that total (45.4) by the number of scholarship players (13): 45.4 / 13 = 3.49 average stars per scholarship player

Similarly, to calculate the mean average of SDSU's roster, we also add their player's ratings together: 4.3+4+3+3+3.3+4.3+4+3+4.3+2.7+4+4+4=47.9

We now divide SDSU's total (47.9) by the number of scholarship players (13):  47.9 / 13 = 3.68 average stars per scholarship player.

Now, I'm kind of going out on a limb here by hoping that since you actually have numbers in your name, you'll understand that

3.68 > 3.49

 

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Okay. As we seem to have a couple Rebs here with some rather basic glaring mathematical deficiencies, I think it's time to bring our slower participants in this discussion up to speed.

You see, phnumbers (and Wild), there is an arithmetic function called a "mean average." By calculating the "mean average" of a set of numbers, we can compare what might appear to some Rebs as confusing sets of data by reducing them to single numbers. To calculate the "mean average," we will sum (add) a set of numbers, and then divide that sum by how many numbers we added together.

I know - it sounds really confusing. So let's apply this principle in an application relevant to this thread.

In this instance, the set of numbers we are going to compare are the ratings of the rosters of SDSU and UNLV. Sig has already provided us with the respective ratings for each team. Now, as there are multiple rating services (Scout, Rivals, ESPN), get this - these numbers are themselves "mean averages." I know...

UmpOi.gif

Now to calculate the mean average of UNLV's roster, we first add the numbers together: 3.7+2.7+2+4+2+3+4.3+4.7+3+3+4+4+5=45.4

We then divide that total (45.4) by the number of scholarship players (13): 45.4 / 13 = 3.49 average stars per scholarship player

Similarly, to calculate the mean average of SDSU's roster, we also add their player's ratings together: 4.3+4+3+3+3.3+4.3+4+3+4.3+2.7+4+4+4=47.9

We now divide SDSU's total (47.9) by the number of scholarship players (13):  47.9 / 13 = 3.68 average stars per scholarship player.

Now, I'm kind of going out on a limb here by hoping that since you actually have numbers in your name, you'll understand that

3.68 > 3.49

 

I tend to be loathe to defend any of the drivel that escapes ph's fingers and makes it way onto the board, but in this case he is correct. Even from a purely superficial standpoint, Ike Nwamu is only a Rebel because Vaughn left. If Vaughn stayed Ike's two-star rating would be replaced with Vaughn's five-star rating, creating a net gain of three stars. That, in and of itself, would bump UNLV's aggregate star rating from 45.4 to 48.4, which is slightly better than SDSU's 47.9. Something similar could be done with Chris Wood and Tyrell Bellot-Green. I'll concede that the connection between Wood and Bellot-Green is somewhat tenuous, but Nwamu was brought in as a direct result of Vaughn's departure. If Vaughn stays, Nwamu is not a Rebel.

On a related note, the two-star rating for Nwamu and Bellott-Green is crushing. To put that in perspective, the only other players on either roster who have two-star ratings are the walk-ons. I don't have any idea what to expect from Bellott-Green, but I am confident he will be better than the walk-ons, and I am certain Nwamu will be better. You don't average 15 ppg, even at a smaller school like Mercer, by chance. I mention this because I think UNLV's numbers are skewed by these, dare I say, anomalous ratings. If they are both given three-star ratings, a fairly modest rating, it changes the averages to UNLV: 3.65, SDSU: 3.68.

UNLV has also been far better at grabbing top-tier talent than SDSU. UNLV has had five McDAAs (Bennett, Kendrick, Birch, Vaughn and Zimm) to SDSU's one (Sheppard). UNLV has also grabbed other players who were boarderline McDAA players, but that ended up being Jordan Brand or Under Armour All-Americans (Roscoe Smith, Wood, Reinhardt, Morgan, Okonobo, and Derrick Jones). I don't follow SDSU recruiting close enough to know if any of your other players played in similar games, maybe Hemsley and Chol, but that is little more than a partially-educated guess. The problem, at least for purposes of this discussion, is that UNLV's most talented players are only around for a year or two before moving on to the NBA, whereas SDSU does a very good job of holding onto players for 3-4 years.

On a related note, UNLV has produced two first-round draft picks under Rice and SDSU has zero. I think this has little to do with the relative quality of coaching at SDSU and UNLV, and merely use it as a proxy for measuring the talent level recruited to the two programs. 

Also, as someone mentioned in an earlier post, all four-stars and three-stars are not created equal. I'll borrow from verbalcommits.com again for my data. SDSU has the following four- and five-star recruits (along with their composite over-all ranking):

Sheppard 4.3/32; Chol 4/59; Allen 4/82; MGC 4.3/34; Pope 4.3/77; Hemsley 4/59; Cheatham 4/70; Narain 4/123

UNLV has the following:

Obekpa 4/67; Morgan 4.7/27; Okonobo 4.3/33; Poyser 4/94; Jones 4/37; Zimm 5/11

If you average the rankings, instead of the stars, SDSU averages a rank of 67 and UNLV averages a rank of 45. This would appear to indicate that UNLV, on average, lands more talented recruits.

Two side notes. First Seagers had a higher overall ranking than Narain, but was not considered a four-star recruit. If you take Narain out, SDSU's average ranking improves to 59, which is still well below UNLV's. Second, I would have looked at three-star recruits as well, but many of them do not have an overall ranking. Although, just for kicks and giggles, UNLV and SDSU both have two three-star players that did have rankings. UNLV: Seagers (107) and Carter (132). SDSU: Spencer (129) and (92). Slight edge to SDSU with the average of 110.5 to 119.5.

All in all, UNLV grabs more top-tier talent than SDSU and does a better job grabbing mid-tier talent. IMO, SDSU is in a much better position overall because they have a great coach and their recruiting is definitely on the rise. In a few years SDSU may very well be recruiting better than UNLV, but for right now UNLV is the class of the conference.

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All in all, UNLV grabs more top-tier talent than SDSU

and

does a better job grabbing mid-tier talent

. IMO, SDSU is in a much better position overall because they have a great coach and their recruiting is definitely on the rise. In a few years SDSU may very well be recruiting better than UNLV, but for right now UNLV is the class of the conference.

The clause in bold is absolutely correct; I have not nor would I dispute it. However, the underlined clause is at best highly debatable.

Now let's refer to the succinct post by the fastest-rising troll talent to ever associate itself with UNLV, which was posted with clarity and specificity:

Exactly.  The average UNLV recruit is ranked higher than the average San Diego State recruit.

You may feel free to defend his point 'till your scarlet and gray fingers are black and blue, but it does dick to change the fact that phnumbers is demonstrably and objectively incorrect as evidenced by the empirical data.

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@TheSanDiegan. While the post you quoted appears to be true for this year according to this data set, I was referring to this post: 

UNLV is recruiting better than any team in the Mountain West.  That's not even debatable.

If we went back and looked at all the recruits UNLV and SDSU have brought in over the last 4 years, I am confident UNLV would comfortably exceed SDSU.

 

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@TheSanDiegan. While the post you quoted appears to be true for this year according to this data set, I was referring to this post: 

 

If we went back and looked at all the recruits UNLV and SDSU have brought in over the last 4 years, I am confident UNLV would comfortably exceed SDSU.

I agree with the bolded statement completely, HR.

However, I just as strongly disagree with the phnumbers post you reference for two reasons.

First, it is presented in the present tense - as in at present - which I would think most certainly implies this year's data set, and second, if we're going to discuss our respective rosters - again, at present - then one sure as shit can't say it's "not even debatable."

Since the hiring of CDR, UNLV has been winning the recruiting battles, but as we continue to build upon a foundation of success while conversely CDR keeps shitting the bed, it could be we are witnessing the scales beginning to tip.

 

Side note: Personally, I think that so long as CDR is running the show, you guys will always get the potential 1-and-dones looking to log a year in college on the strip before declaring, and thus will likely always get the higher-ranked top-tier recruit. But IMO that's as much a product of different recruiting philosophies than anything else, as Fish Dutch Hut & Co place about as much an emphasis on character as they do athletic ability - so while our top-tier guy may be ranked in the 30's as opposed to the 10's, what we give up in marginal athletic ability we gain in on-court presence, continuity, and leadership.

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Recruiting talent is one thing.  Keeping talent and developing it is another.  San Diego State has been a top recruiting destination for awhile in the MWC plus Fisher has been able to retain that talent for multiple years and win championships.  Interesting stat would be the number of years that top level talent played for each school.  I think San Diego state wins that hands down.   

i.e.  You take a 3 star recruit in his 3rd and 4th year  he may be more valuable to the team than a one and done 5 star.  

Take the last 5 years MVP of the MWC

2015 Derrick Marks 2 Star

2014 Xavier Thamas 3/4 star

2013 Kendel Williams 3 Star

2012 Jamaal Franklin 3 Star

2011 Jimmer Fredette 2 Star

2010 Darington Hobson NR

Granted, highly rated recruits make a difference.  But keeping talent around mixed with individual development of role players wins championships.  

 

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There is no question that UNLV has been and is recruiting better than SDSU. Aztecs recruiting is improving, but looking at only the current roster doesn't rate recruiting but merely the current roster. 

SDSU has had 5 upper half NCAA berths in a row.

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