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Why Is Utah State So Hated On Here

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Not true at all.

None of the teams in this conference will be seriously looked at, be it in this conference or in the proposed split, so we might as well split.

You're under the delusion that this MWC is the same MWC of five years ago, and frankly, its not...

Even if it was no Cal State school will ever be invited to the Pac-12 and it is highly unlikely the Big 12 will come west given they have WVU. So might as well optimize our current situation and that is not what the Boise conference offers.

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Let me see if I have this "seeds of discontent" thread figured out.

1.  BSU leaves to the BE for greener pastures, more $ and BCS access.  SDS follows.  They hope that a western coalition for their oly sports pans out.  Nothing much does so it's Big West here we come.

2.  The MWC backfills the BSU and SDS spots with USU and SJS.  Hair gets a two-fer.  If the WAC was not already dead, it is now.

3.  The BE begins disintegrating.  BSU begins wondering if it is toxic because they've seen this scenario play out before.  With BCS-dom no longer in the cards for the BE, BSU questions the wisdom of this cross-country move as the new BE is no better than the MWC.

4.  Re-enter Hair.  He realizes that BSU is the lynchpin and offers the Broncos a sweetheart deal to return.  The Broncos take it.  They realize that the MWC may still be nothing more than a stop-over, but it's the best deal available at this time.

5.  SDS is now left blowing in the wind with very few options.  With its tail firmly planted between its legs, the Aztecs also return to the MWC  but without the sweetheart revenue deal the Broncos received.

6.  SDS is angry.  Its TV bonus is no better than that of USU, Wyoming and SJS -- clearly inferior products in the eyes of Aztec fans.

7.  The solution is to break away from the lowly front-range schools and form a second California bus league.  This will take the enticing of several FCS schools to do.  But it will finally allow SDS to be the big fish in the small pond and receive its just desserts.  The added benefit is that it no longer need to have association with the Western clod-busters. 

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Let me see if I have this "seeds of discontent" thread figured out.

1. BSU leaves to the BE for greener pastures, more $ and BCS access. SDS follows. They hope that a western coalition for their oly sports pans out. Nothing much does so it's Big West here we come.

2. The MWC backfills the BSU and SDS spots with USU and SJS. Hair gets a two-fer. If the WAC was not already dead, it is now.

3. The BE begins disintegrating. BSU begins wondering if it is toxic because they've seen this scenario play out before. With BCS-dom no longer in the cards for the BE, BSU questions the wisdom of this cross-country move as the new BE is no better than the MWC.

4. Re-enter Hair. He realizes that BSU is the lynchpin and offers the Broncos a sweetheart deal to return. The Broncos take it. They realize that the MWC may still be nothing more than a stop-over, but it's the best deal available at this time.

5. SDS is now left blowing in the wind with very few options. With its tail firmly planted between its legs, the Aztecs also return to the MWC but without the sweetheart revenue deal the Broncos received.

6. SDS is angry. Its TV bonus is no better than that of USU, Wyoming and SJS -- clearly inferior products in the eyes of Aztec fans.

7. The solution is to break away from the lowly front-range schools and form a second California bus league. This will take the enticing of several FCS schools to do. But it will finally allow SDS to be the big fish in the small pond and receive its just desserts. The added benefit is that it no longer need to have association with the Western clod-busters.

You're too ignorant to comprehend what is being discussed here. Rocks don't figure things out, rocks are just happy to be here.

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Let me see if I have this "seeds of discontent" thread figured out.

1. BSU leaves to the BE for greener pastures, more $ and BCS access. SDS follows. They hope that a western coalition for their oly sports pans out. Nothing much does so it's Big West here we come.

2. The MWC backfills the BSU and SDS spots with USU and SJS. Hair gets a two-fer. If the WAC was not already dead, it is now.

3. The BE begins disintegrating. BSU begins wondering if it is toxic because they've seen this scenario play out before. With BCS-dom no longer in the cards for the BE, BSU questions the wisdom of this cross-country move as the new BE is no better than the MWC.

4. Re-enter Hair. He realizes that BSU is the lynchpin and offers the Broncos a sweetheart deal to return. The Broncos take it. They realize that the MWC may still be nothing more than a stop-over, but it's the best deal available at this time.

5. SDS is now left blowing in the wind with very few options. With its tail firmly planted between its legs, the Aztecs also return to the MWC but without the sweetheart revenue deal the Broncos received.

6. SDS is angry. Its TV bonus is no better than that of USU, Wyoming and SJS -- clearly inferior products in the eyes of Aztec fans.

7. The solution is to break away from the lowly front-range schools and form a second California bus league. This will take the enticing of several FCS schools to do. But it will finally allow SDS to be the big fish in the small pond and receive its just desserts. The added benefit is that it no longer need to have association with the Western clod-busters.

It is not just SDSU fans that don't like this deal so don't make it about SDSU. Any of us who had a great year could be AFA who has 11 games on TV and only one bonus game of 300K. Every good game AFA had was picked by CBSSports and the games against UNLV and New Mexico were strong enough to make an ESPNU but not a bonus game. I am pretty sure AFA is worth more than 1.3M a year and it isn't even that because conferences expenses come out of the CBS TV deal.

Fresno got lucky because AFA and SDSU provided shield from CBSSports and ESPN traded for the Boise game. Most of us realize we won't be so lucky in the future. If you are very good your screwed and if you are bad you are screwed in terms of bonus dollars.

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Sactowndog,

Good points. I only make this a little about SDS because it seems like it is the SDS posters, both the reasonable ones and the few whose names will be unspoken, who seem to have their shorts twisted on this. I'm for letting things play out for a season or two before I start bithchin' about what a crappy deal it is. Aggie fans are not yet two weeks into celebrating our entrance into the MWC and are not quite ready to think about how we are getting screwed. SDS knew the deal when it elected to return to the MWC and could have made another choice. It didn't. It looks like its fans could at least take a wait-and-see stance for a while.

The bottom line is, just win. That's all any school has control over. That's what BSU did and it reaped what it sewed. Good for them. I'm not angry at the unfairness of the BSU deal. The Broncos earned what they got. The rest of us should try to do the same.

I personally see no benefit to splitting the confernence into two conferences and further diluting the MWC's strength. Adding the Montana schools and Idaho in the East and Cal Poly and UC Davis in the West is a dilution not a strengthening.

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Sactowndog,

Good points. I only make this a little about SDS because it seems like it is the SDS posters, both the reasonable ones and the few whose names will be unspoken, who seem to have their shorts twisted on this. I'm for letting things play out for a season or two before I start bithchin' about what a crappy deal it is. Aggie fans are not yet two weeks into celebrating our entrance into the MWC and are not quite ready to think about how we are getting screwed. SDS knew the deal when it elected to return to the MWC and could have made another choice. It didn't. It looks like its fans could at least take a wait-and-see stance for a while.

Like I said, rocks are just happy to be here.

The bottom line is, just win. That's all any school has control over. That's what BSU did and it reaped what it sewed. Good for them. I'm not angry at the unfairness of the BSU deal. The Broncos earned what they got. The rest of us should try to do the same.

That's what you can't seem to comprehend. In this TV contract, the more you win, the more you'll get screwed.

I personally see no benefit to splitting the confernence into two conferences and further diluting the MWC's strength. Adding the Montana schools and Idaho in the East and Cal Poly and UC Davis in the West is a dilution not a strengthening.

Of course you don't, you're a rock, you're just along for the ride...

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Let me see if I have this "seeds of discontent" thread figured out.

1.  BSU leaves to the BE for greener pastures, more $ and BCS access.  SDS follows.  They hope that a western coalition for their oly sports pans out.  Nothing much does so it's Big West here we come.

2.  The MWC backfills the BSU and SDS spots with USU and SJS.  Hair gets a two-fer.  If the WAC was not already dead, it is now.

3.  The BE begins disintegrating.  BSU begins wondering if it is toxic because they've seen this scenario play out before.  With BCS-dom no longer in the cards for the BE, BSU questions the wisdom of this cross-country move as the new BE is no better than the MWC.

4.  Re-enter Hair.  He realizes that BSU is the lynchpin and offers the Broncos a sweetheart deal to return.  The Broncos take it.  They realize that the MWC may still be nothing more than a stop-over, but it's the best deal available at this time.

5.  SDS is now left blowing in the wind with very few options.  With its tail firmly planted between its legs, the Aztecs also return to the MWC  but without the sweetheart revenue deal the Broncos received.

6.  SDS is angry.  Its TV bonus is no better than that of USU, Wyoming and SJS -- clearly inferior products in the eyes of Aztec fans.

7.  The solution is to break away from the lowly front-range schools and form a second California bus league.  This will take the enticing of several FCS schools to do.  But it will finally allow SDS to be the big fish in the small pond and receive its just desserts.  The added benefit is that it no longer need to have association with the Western clod-busters. 

 

 

You left out some important info for item 1.  Boise was originally set to join the WAC but backed out.  Had they stayed committed to it or gone to the BW first, the travel subs would have either been reduced or not slapped down on them at all.  That was a misplay on their part.  the subsequent WAC adds would have all been the same though.

 

2-5 are largely spot on.  Items 6 and 7, I'll leave that to the Aztec fanbase.

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This is a big experiment.  A lot of current MW schools were in the WAC 16 and that fell apart almost immediately.  This could easily become a marriage of convenience conference for schools with no other options.  The WAC after the split certainly went down that road.  The east west split may well be the thing that saves the day here.

 

It makes little sense for a school in a small town in the mountains like USU to be in a conference with a big city, coastal school like SDSU.  Wyoming and Fresno..CSU and SJSU, etc...  Hawaii is way far away..These are schools that have little in common and aren't all that close together on a map.

 

The brass understands this dichotomy for football and created two distinct entities based solely on geography.  While there will be crossover games schools won't play schools on the other side very often.

 

For the life of me I don't understand why the presidents decided against creating divisions for the other sports, particularly the non revenue ones.  I am guessing they believe this might build some unity for this spread out and diverse construct.  That is the grand experiment at work.

 

I think the MW should add an oly sports only school from California and keep a stronger divide between the divisions.  That might discourage some of the wanderlust and or yearning for purer western or purer mountain conferences.

 

I am proud to be in the conference, I like the makeup of the conference and I don't want any school to leave but this is a decidedly weird lash up. 

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That's what you can't seem to comprehend. In this TV contract, the more you win, the more you'll get screwed.

Exactly, if you become the top non-Boise draw by winning you become AFA and will be paid significantly less than Boise or the third most attractive team.

Under this deal to maximize revenue the motto is be mediocre. Pat Hill would have been perfect for this league. I just hope we can keep DeRuyter because if we win we won't have revenue to pay his assistants.

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King James. U make some valid arguments. And had Boise and sdsu not first thought of the big east, usu and sjs would never had been invited and as a 10 team conference you would be 100% correct.

But the variable that you aren't accepting is: being usu and sjs were invited and bus and sdsu decided to stay, this conference is a much stronger conference than any combination of 9 or 10 team option. The TV deal currently sucks. But then again it has sucked for the last 10 years. I think with the current 12 team conference and our ooc games, this is the best option available. The key to a successful TV contract in the future is whether Thompson uses a winning conference against other conferences as a chip to renegotiate when appropriate. That is the one part that will fail if anything. I have zero faith in that moron.

But with the exception of Boise or possibly air force being invited to a better conference; which I doubt is any time soon; this 12 team conference is our best option. Not split. None of the teams could survive in a smaller and worse conference. And they would surely become a worse team, not better.

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Guest #1Stunner

Not true at all.

None of the teams in this conference will be seriously looked at, be it in this conference or in the proposed split, so we might as well split.

You're under the delusion that this MWC is the same MWC of five years ago, and frankly, its not...

 

I think it's pretty clear that San Diego State fans view their school as deserving better than this conference (they can of course feel how they want).  However, they are, by their own admission, in no position to do anything about it.  

 

Now, BYU fans felt this way for a long time about the MWC, but were happy enough being in the MWC when Utah and TCU were in the conference (poor TV deal notwithstanding).  But....while BYU and UTAH and TCU were still in the conference, BYU was also raising money and constructing a state of the art TV studio and purchasing an expensive HD Truck.  Then, as we know, when TCU and UTAH moved on, BYU was able to quickly jump to being a football Independent.  If BYU didn't have its TV capability, it wouldn't have been able to go Independent when it did.

 

Maybe San Diego State needs to spend some money and start building at least a stripped down version of what BYU has?   Then SDSU could go football independent, and possibly put all other sports in the Big West, or buy its way into the WCC.  SDSU fans would probably be much happier with this scenario.....  But SDSU can't do anything until they get the infrastructure in place.

 

in the meantime, what's the point of ripping on the conference, if you are in no position to do anything about it?

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I think it's pretty clear that San Diego State fans view their school as deserving better than this conference (they can of course feel how they want).  However, they are, by their own admission, in no position to do anything about it.  

 

Now, BYU fans felt this way for a long time about the MWC, but were happy enough being in the MWC when Utah and TCU were in the conference (poor TV deal notwithstanding).  But....while BYU and UTAH and TCU were still in the conference, BYU was also raising money and constructing a state of the art TV studio and purchasing an expensive HD Truck.  Then, as we know, when TCU and UTAH moved on, BYU was able to quickly jump to being a football Independent.  If BYU didn't have its TV capability, it wouldn't have been able to go Independent when it did.

 

Maybe San Diego State needs to spend some money and start building at least a stripped down version of what BYU has?   Then SDSU could go football independent, and possibly put all other sports in the Big West, or buy its way into the WCC.  SDSU fans would probably be much happier with this scenario.....  But SDSU can't do anything until they get the infrastructure in place.

 

in the meantime, what's the point of ripping on the conference, if you are in no position to do anything about it?

You don't need that stuff to go independent. You just have to have the sack to do it or be desperate enough to do it. You guys did, our previous president might have, but our new president is an empty suit.

It didn't stop you guys from ripping this conference and its TV deal before you left...

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King James. U make some valid arguments. And had Boise and sdsu not first thought of the big east, usu and sjs would never had been invited and as a 10 team conference you would be 100% correct.

But the variable that you aren't accepting is: being usu and sjs were invited and bus and sdsu decided to stay, this conference is a much stronger conference than any combination of 9 or 10 team option. The TV deal currently sucks. But then again it has sucked for the last 10 years. I think with the current 12 team conference and our ooc games, this is the best option available. The key to a successful TV contract in the future is whether Thompson uses a winning conference against other conferences as a chip to renegotiate when appropriate. That is the one part that will fail if anything. I have zero faith in that moron.

But with the exception of Boise or possibly air force being invited to a better conference; which I doubt is any time soon; this 12 team conference is our best option. Not split. None of the teams could survive in a smaller and worse conference. And they would surely become a worse team, not better.

The west teams would survive just as well in the split conference as they would in this conference. How would SDSU get worse by playing Fresno, SJSU, UNR, UNLV, Hawaii, and two FCS call-ups in Conference every year vs playing those teams and a couple of the Mountain teams?

I'd argue we'd thrive better in the split conference because we'd all be on equal footing and the TV deal would be more equitable.

You can feel free to be happy being Boise/CBS Sports' ++++, but forgive me if I'm not going to be a "rock" about it.

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With our concentration in Hawaii, CA and Nevada Time Warner or Comcast become viable options

And Fox Sports, Cox, etc...

A Big 12 style setup would be perfect, tiers one and two to the conference and the schools get to keep tier three to do with as they please.

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You don't need that stuff to go independent. You just have to have the sack to do it or be desperate enough to do it. You guys did, our previous president might have, but our new president is an empty suit.

It didn't stop you guys from ripping this conference and its TV deal before you left...

Well, you're essentially doing the same thing.  What you guys have now is better than what we used to have, at least.

Image result for jim mcmahon with lavell edwardsImage result for byu logoImage result for byu boise state end zone hail maryc07489bb8bb7f5bad3672877f8b04f34.jpg

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And Fox Sports, Cox, etc...

A Big 12 style setup would be perfect, tiers one and two to the conference and the schools get to keep tier three to do with as they please.

 

That's old school.  It's the way I prefer it too though.  At least you get to see all your team's games that way (if you live in the market).  And you get most of the top games for free, and can get most of the rest by maybe paying for the sports package or something like that.

 

It's also pretty merit based, especially if you compensate teams for their tier 1 appearances.

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In the event there was some kind of Mountain/Pacific conference split, I wouldn't be too bummed if it ended up like this for the mountain side:

 

Wyo

CSU

AFA

UNM

UNMS

UTEP

USU

Boise

Montana

Idaho

South Dakota

North Dakota State

At Which point we should just let everyone in

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If the mountain west split up and turned into 2 conference by adding some more teams, both would be AA conferences in quality and only D1 A in name. The MWC spent over 10 years trying to prove we belonged in D1 A and could compete with the other conferences. We have been given an accidental gift by being at 12 teams to succeed. This 12 team conference is our only and last chance to prove we are equal and competitive. The only way a team does better is to leave and join one of the big 5. Splitting the conference into 2 is a step backwards.

Easy Dad, logic has no place in this thread.

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