MWC 6 vs Pac 8

[EvilPoke]

On 7/28/2024 at 10:17 PM, HawaiiMongoose said:

Not sure where you got the $300 million figure.  I think the maximum wealth transfer would be around $170 million, assuming the MWC's exit fee holds up in court.  That's comprised of $102 million in combined exit fee payments by the six departing schools ($17 million per school) and the $67.5 million poaching penalty due from the Pac (as specified in the sliding scale contained in the MWC-Pac scheduling agreement).

As for your question, I think the departing schools would be better off in the long run, but the $170 million would at least cushion the blow for the left-behinds.  It would enable them to pay some incentive money to whatever schools they target to rebuild the MWC, e.g. grants to cover short-term transition costs for any FCS move-ups.  They could split the remainder among themselves to invest in athletic program improvements.

I was going off the $36 million fee with less than a years notice - not $17M.

[lobo-tomy]

On 7/30/2024 at 2:43 AM, HawaiiMongoose said:

It is very unlikely that Hawaii would ever go independent.  Scheduling home games after September would be extremely difficult, for reasons I’ve explained in other threads/posts numerous times.

If the MWC were dissolved and we were iced out of a rebuilt Pac, we would look for a new FBS conference home.  If that failed we would look for an FCS conference hime or drop football.

On the plus side, you already have an FCS stadium.

[HawaiiMongoose]

On 7/30/2024 at 7:41 PM, lobo-tomy said:

On the plus side, you already have an FCS stadium.

Truth.  Hopefully that changes soon.

[alum93]

On 7/30/2024 at 1:53 PM, smithy said:

My guess is that the PAC will fully reverse merge with the existing MW and add two more, be it UTSA, UTEP, to get to 16 for FB . They need the body count to compete with the other P4 teams and at the same time control the pacific and mountain time slots and also have a foot in the door into west/south Texas. This keeps all the money in everybody coffers, each school can then improve their facilities, take schools from the AAC and CUSA, and have no penalty fees to be doled out. If they can also have a full schedule agreement the whole WCC for many non conference BB games throughout the league, it can compete in basketball SOS against the Big12. Having those agreements might help Gloria in getting the maximum income for all the schools involved including the WCC. My 2c.

I can see why they could pull CUSA teams.  I don't see a MWC with OSU/WSU pulling any AAC schools.  The money just wouldn't be there.  I don't see UTSA going anywhere.  UTEP would jump in a nanosecond.

[Beaver-Poke]

OSU's AD has said numerous times he wants to remain regional. No CUSA or AAC team is regional.

[Brew_Poke]

On 7/29/2024 at 9:49 PM, Beaver-Poke said:

Pretty ironic for a fan of SJSU to criticize programs for living off the rest of the conference for decades.

Especially when OSU and WSU have combined to play in 24 (WSU 11, OSU 13) bowl games and earn numerous NCAA men's basketball units in this century. To say nothing of Oregon State's three NCAA baseball championships. They have more than held up their share of the burden. 

PS: Portland Seattle, which OSU and WSU have thousands and thousands of fans/TV viewers/alums in, are not "ridiculously small" TV markets. 

That's because the PAC stole all the bowl games we started and built up over years.

[Brew_Poke]

On 7/30/2024 at 3:59 PM, MissionTrails said:

Probably doesn't buy us much, though the Pac name still carries more name recognition nationally. Thing is, the Pac2 schools will lose their treasure chest if they can't get us to merge their way (keeping Pac name instead of MWC), so there's got to be some financial incentive offered to the MWC schools to get us to play ball with them. That's the way I see it anyway. Maybe there's something I'm missing.

The PAC name is synonymous with being destroyed and nothing being left. I really fail to see how it has any brand value, let alone more than the MWC.

[Beaver-Poke]

On 7/31/2024 at 7:26 PM, Brew_Poke said:

The PAC name is synonymous with being destroyed and nothing being left. I really fail to see how it has any brand value, let alone more than the MWC.

It has $255 million of brand value. It has brand value that its remaining teams can both get a better TV deal than the current MWC deal. 

Quick, tell me how many of the original Eagles are in the band. How many of the original Rolling Stones. They had no problem keeping their brand value with replacement parts. 

I also had no idea the MWC started the Rose Bowl. Learn something every day. 

[Brew_Poke]

On 7/31/2024 at 9:36 PM, Beaver-Poke said:

It has $255 million of brand value. It has brand value that its remaining teams can both get a better TV deal than the current MWC deal. 

Quick, tell me how many of the original Eagles are in the band. How many of the original Rolling Stones. They had no problem keeping their brand value with replacement parts. 

That's not brand value, that's just money. Your analogy doesn't hold up, either.

[Beaver-Poke]

On 7/31/2024 at 7:44 PM, Brew_Poke said:

That's not brand value, that's just money. Your analogy doesn't hold up, either.

Whatever you say. 

Now tell me why the Pac-2 also will get double the payout from the CFP as the MWC. 

[Chalsean]

On 7/31/2024 at 8:36 PM, Beaver-Poke said:

It has $255 million of brand value. It has brand value that its remaining teams can both get a better TV deal than the current MWC deal. 

Quick, tell me how many of the original Eagles are in the band. How many of the original Rolling Stones. They had no problem keeping their brand value with replacement parts. 

I also had no idea the MWC started the Rose Bowl. Learn something every day. 

The legal entity has $255 million.  The brand is completely different and no, it has little value now.  Similar to SWC or Big 8 having no value.

[Brew_Poke]

On 7/31/2024 at 9:58 PM, Beaver-Poke said:

Whatever you say. 

Now tell me why the Pac-2 also will get double the payout from the CFP as the MWC. 

Because they are left in the entity that the schools that money was meant to go to were in when the contracts were negotiated. This isn't rocket surgery.

[Beaver-Poke]

On 8/1/2024 at 6:59 AM, Brew_Poke said:

Because they are left in the entity that the schools that money was meant to go to were in when the contracts were negotiated. This isn't rocket surgery.

Totally untrue. The 10 had left the Pac-12 when the new CFP contract was negotiated earlier this year. OSU and WSU were only supposed to get $350,000 each. Following negotiations that number was raised by a factor of 10 to $3.5 million each. Like it or not, the Pac-12 name has brand value, proven again by a superior TV contract and CFP payouts to the Pac-2.  

[agswin]

On 7/31/2024 at 7:17 PM, Beaver-Poke said:

OSU's AD has said numerous times he wants to remain regional. No CUSA or AAC team is regional.

Pardon the interruption, but it does not appear to me that WSU/OSU are really playing with all that many aces or other fabulous options up their sleeves.  

What am I missing?  WSU/OSU might not be in much of a position to dictate terms.

If I was GN would extend an offer to WSU/OSU to join the MWC immediately with the understanding that Membership fees are not static are likely going up dramatically in the near future.

It is also reasonable that, with a healthy dose of conference stabilization, schools like UTEP and NMSU could become fine, solid, reliable conference members in the MWC.  Their travel distances going east are really not less than going west.  UTEP is pretty darn regional to most of the MWC and have already been in a conference with many of the MWC members.  Ditto for NMSU.

In many ways, neither would be much of a stretch geographically at all for the MWC.  I say extend the offer to those 2, then, and then get to work on a couple more western non-football playing schools (Zags, St. Mary's) the round out the conference.

Build the MWC to last and to make a substantial mark in the FB and MBB world.  Stability through strength.

 

[agswin]

On 7/29/2024 at 1:47 PM, Chalsean said:

Frankly not sure what you're driving at or where got "need" from in this thread.  It's kind of a silly poll imo because its a situation that will not happen.  MWC is staying put.  One or both of OSU/WSU may join.  That's about the gist of the situation.

I agree.  There is no good reason I can see to do something stupid.

That is not to say that I am 100% convinced that nobody will try something stupid.

I seems like we have seen this show before.

 

[Beaver-Poke]

On 8/1/2024 at 2:55 PM, agswin said:

Pardon the interruption, but it does not appear to me that WSU/OSU are really playing with all that many aces or other fabulous options up their sleeves.  

What am I missing?  WSU/OSU might not be in much of a position to dictate terms.

If I was GN would extend an offer to WSU/OSU to join the MWC immediately with the understanding that Membership fees are not static are likely going up dramatically in the near future.

It is also reasonable that, with a healthy dose of conference stabilization, schools like UTEP and NMSU could become fine, solid, reliable conference members in the MWC.  Their travel distances going east are really not less than going west.  UTEP is pretty darn regional to most of the MWC and have already been in a conference with many of the MWC members.  Ditto for NMSU.

In many ways, neither would be much of a stretch geographically at all for the MWC.  I say extend the offer to those 2, then, and then get to work on a couple more western non-football playing schools (Zags, St. Mary's) the round out the conference.

Build the MWC to last and to make a substantial mark in the FB and MBB world.  Stability through strength.

 

Conferences have legal bylaws. They can't be changed willy-nilly at the commissioner's request. And you are assuming all the MWC members want to make it harder to leave. I expect five or six would jump to join OSU/WSU in a heartbeat, given help with the buyout payment. 

A reverse merger makes more financial sense. OSU/WSU will keep the $65 million coming from the departing 10 but also have a $190 million war chest. That money can be shared; any money spent on buying out part of the league instead of the whole is essentially wasted. OSU/WSU have a better TV contract. A combination of CW and CBSSN would be a plus for all 14 schools. The Pac has more name recognition and brand value. The Pac has the Portland and Seattle markets. 

No, the Pac-2 is not in position to "dictate terms." Nor have I seen ANYWHERE where they are attempting to do so. The same goes for the MWC. Protect your interests, certainly, but why play hardball unnecessarily and hack off two entities who would substantially improve your league?

Both parties need to find out what is best for each league in the long term. I think that's a reverse merger. Some of you disagree. NBD. 

[Did I hear a WOOSH?]

On 7/31/2024 at 10:36 PM, Beaver-Poke said:

It has $255 million of brand value. It has brand value that its remaining teams can both get a better TV deal than the current MWC deal. 

Quick, tell me how many of the original Eagles are in the band. How many of the original Rolling Stones. They had no problem keeping their brand value with replacement parts. 

I also had no idea the MWC started the Rose Bowl. Learn something every day. 

That’s not how it works re: brand value. And just because you’re holding the money doesn’t mean it’s yours to spend.  You’re in charge of literally all conference expenses with that.

The mwc can get a tv deal, the pac can’t.  Not sure how you don’t understand that very simple point.  

[Spaztecs]

On 7/29/2024 at 8:26 AM, Someone Else said:

Why do they all 'need' each other?  

Why does Wyo need SDSU?

Why does Fresno need UNM?

etc

 

 

In SUDS case, no other Conference wants them. 

SUDS needs the MW more than the MW needs SDSU.

[Spaztecs]

On 7/30/2024 at 2:18 AM, Aztecjeff said:

I think Oregon State & Washington State invite the "Top 9" schools from the MWC + UTSA for a 12 team league.  That way "they" (nor anyone else) has to pay any penalties. 

Question is, which 3 MWC schools will be left behind?  And where would they ultimately end up?  

My guess:

Hawaii (goes Independent)

Utah State (C-USA)

Nevada (C-USA)   

Historically, USU and UNR have been competitive in both Sports. They sadly are in small markets.

Personally, I'm thinking UH, UW, Sparty, and UNM are at the bottom of the food chain.

If the MW loses Schools, (less than 5% chance imo) I'm thinking that six are still left and they reach out to UTEP, NMSU, NDSU, SDSU, and a couple more Texas Schools.

[Spaztecs]

On 7/31/2024 at 1:43 PM, alum93 said:

I can see why they could pull CUSA teams.  I don't see a MWC with OSU/WSU pulling any AAC schools.  The money just wouldn't be there.  I don't see UTSA going anywhere.  UTEP would jump in a nanosecond.

And NMSU