This has got to be Bob or BB:

[---I GREEN INFECTION I---]

 

https://x.com/lukepbeasley/status/1795102016512889220

[Nevada Convert]

On 5/28/2024 at 12:41 AM, ---I GREEN INFECTION I--- said:

 

https://x.com/lukepbeasley/status/1795102016512889220

A crazy MAGA douche, and a completely uninformed clueless kid. That’s what that was. Both embarrassing. Someone needs to tell that kid that Afghanistan is not something you want to bring up if you want him re-elected. And the “Inflation Reduction Act”, as well. Because it had nothing to do with reducing inflation which is patently dishonest. Even if it was supposed to, it obviously ain’t working. 

[RamSack]

On 5/28/2024 at 4:08 AM, Nevada Convert said:

A crazy MAGA douche, and a completely uninformed clueless kid. That’s what that was. Both embarrassing. Someone needs to tell that kid that Afghanistan is not something you want to bring up if you want him re-elected. And the “Inflation Reduction Act”, as well. Because it had nothing to do with reducing inflation which is patently dishonest. Even if it was supposed to, it obviously ain’t working. 

There was no easy way to get out of Afghanistan. 

[thelawlorfaithful]

On 5/28/2024 at 6:14 AM, RamSack said:

There was no easy way to get out of Afghanistan. 

Making a deal with the Taliban while they kill our soldiers and blow up 100’s of people while refugees fall out of airplanes sure as shit wasn’t easy.

[madmartigan]

On 5/28/2024 at 7:14 AM, RamSack said:

There was no easy way to get out of Afghanistan. 

We can acknowledge two things here: Getting out of Aghanistan (long term) was the right move AND our withdrawal was VERY poorly executed. 

[bsu_alum9]

On 5/28/2024 at 3:08 AM, Nevada Convert said:

Even if it was supposed to, it obviously ain’t working. 

[grandjean87]

On 5/28/2024 at 9:58 AM, madmartigan said:

We can acknowledge two things here: Getting out of Aghanistan (long term) was the right move AND our withdrawal was VERY poorly executed. 

We can acknowledge the latter involved a lot more than the final days and completely tied to the former (getting out part). 

[madmartigan]

On 5/28/2024 at 11:38 AM, grandjean87 said:

We can acknowledge the latter involved a lot more than the final days and completely tied to the former (getting out part). 

Sure. Overall it was a net positive and I think an accomplishment of the current administration. Not sure what point you're trying to make, but I don't think anyone would disagree that the final days were botched even if the overall goal was met. 

[sean327]

On 5/28/2024 at 6:14 AM, RamSack said:

There was no easy way to get out of Afghanistan. 

Yes there was, the Biden administration ignored the plan CENTCOM came up with. Was it perfect? No, but it was a hell of a lot better than what happened.

[RamSack]

On 5/28/2024 at 1:08 PM, sean327 said:

Yes there was, the Biden administration ignored the plan CENTCOM came up with. Was it perfect? No, but it was a hell of a lot better than what happened.

What was in that plan? I have no idea. I do think that any withdrawal would've been a shit show in the end.

[sean327]

The CENTCOM plan was to utilize all five airbases to evacuate personnel and retrograde equipment. Bagram Air Base outside of Kabul, Kabul International Airport, Camp Leatherneck/Bastion in Helmand Province, Sinadad Air Base in Herat Province, and Kandahar International Airport in Kandahar. The plan called for a 90 day withdrawal, less if it could be done properly. Biden's National Security team rejected it and went with their abomination.

[grandjean87]

On 5/28/2024 at 12:38 PM, madmartigan said:

Sure. Overall it was a net positive and I think an accomplishment of the current administration. Not sure what point you're trying to make, but I don't think anyone would disagree that the final days were botched even if the overall goal was met. 

The State Dept.'s After Action Review report is filled with analysis including criticisms broadly from January 2020-August 2021.  Plenty to go around, but you can find reference early in that document to factors preceding the dates (and outside the mission of the report).  My point would be not to completely isolate the final withdrawal from all that preceded it nor the conditions created by those precedent events. 

If I have a position on this and many other matters of foreign policy including interventions, is that it's hard to get things right and impossible to get things perfect.  
 

https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/State-AAR-AFG.pdf

[madmartigan]

On 5/28/2024 at 1:27 PM, grandjean87 said:

The State Dept.'s After Action Review report is filled with analysis including criticisms broadly from January 2020-August 2021.  Plenty to go around, but you can find reference early in that document to factors preceding the dates (and outside the mission of the report).  My point would be not to completely isolate the final withdrawal from all that preceded it nor the conditions created by those precedent events. 

If I have a position on this and many other matters of foreign policy including interventions, is that it's hard to get things right and impossible to get things perfect.  
 

https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/State-AAR-AFG.pdf

100%. You can't account for all the variables in such a challenging environment and we need to both extend grace and hold people to account. It's fascinating to study, appreciate you sharing that. I'm glad we got out from that no win situation. 

As a side note, I've been interested in learning more on a potential Taiwan v China conflict- any good reads you have on that? 

[grandjean87]

On 5/28/2024 at 1:40 PM, madmartigan said:

100%. You can't account for all the variables in such a challenging environment and we need to both extend grace and hold people to account. It's fascinating to study, appreciate you sharing that. I'm glad we got out from that no win situation. 

As a side note, I've been interested in learning more on a potential Taiwan v China conflict- any good reads you have on that? 

I don't have the wisdom to know if leaving Afghanistan in '21, swiftly or slowly, was really the right thing to do, but at some point time would be time.   @sean327 pointed out a general alternative to the actual final exit, but according to some military leadership testimony, just Bagram alone would have required a few thousand new troops.  Multiples of the current troop numbers in Afghanistan would be needed for a broader and dispersed occupation during an extended withdrawal.  That would have saved American-cooperating Afghan lives, but it would have cost American lives holding dispersed areas for a few months.  

And, I'm not sure when history will reveal fully and confirm -- if ever, but the April '21 decision to go through with the Afghan withdrawal coincides with the intelligence realization of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.  My hunch is still that this huge external factor played a role along side internal factors in Afghanistan on timing and strategy. 

I see a lot and frequently on Taiwan.  I read an interesting strategy piece recently, but do not recall what site/author on the slower, surer route China may pursue.  A long planned strategic march to absorb Taiwan into its sphere of control (militarily, politically, socially, etc.) rather than a costly near-horizon invasion.  Xi's legacy aside, it made a lot of sense.  If I find it or similiar, I'll try to remember to link. 

[Nevada Convert]

On 5/28/2024 at 12:26 PM, sean327 said:

The CENTCOM plan was to utilize all five airbases to evacuate personnel and retrograde equipment. Bagram Air Base outside of Kabul, Kabul International Airport, Camp Leatherneck/Bastion in Helmand Province, Sinadad Air Base in Herat Province, and Kandahar International Airport in Kandahar. The plan called for a 90 day withdrawal, less if it could be done properly. Biden's National Security team rejected it and went with their abomination.

Biden also ignored his generals advice to completely get out of Afghanistan. It was stable and working. They recommended 2500 to gather intelligence, keep the maintenance going on the Afghan army, that would’ve kept Kabul from falling back to 1500 AD, we wouldn’t have given away all that military equipment to the Taliban, we wouldn’t have abandoned all the interpreters and others that helped us that all didn’t get out. 

We have about 170,000 active duty troops stationed around the world. Keeping 2,500 in a non-direct combat role in a place that caused 911 to happen is a no brainer. It was working. We hadn’t lost someone in something like 1.5 years. That’s why the generals wanted the 2,500 to stay. 

That’s my opinion, at least. 

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/09/28/top-generals-afghanistan-withdrawal-congress-hearing-514491

[NMpackalum]

On 5/28/2024 at 1:05 PM, grandjean87 said:

I don't have the wisdom to know if leaving Afghanistan in '21, swiftly or slowly, was really the right thing to do, but at some point time would be time.   @sean327 pointed out a general alternative to the actual final exit, but according to some military leadership testimony, just Bagram alone would have required a few thousand new troops.  Multiples of the current troop numbers in Afghanistan would be needed for a broader and dispersed occupation during an extended withdrawal.  That would have saved American-cooperating Afghan lives, but it would have cost American lives holding dispersed areas for a few months.  

And, I'm not sure when history will reveal fully and confirm -- if ever, but the April '21 decision to go through with the Afghan withdrawal coincides with the intelligence realization of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.  My hunch is still that this huge external factor played a role along side internal factors in Afghanistan on timing and strategy. 

I see a lot and frequently on Taiwan.  I read an interesting strategy piece recently, but do not recall what site/author on the slower, surer route China may pursue.  A long planned strategic march to absorb Taiwan into its sphere of control (militarily, politically, socially, etc.) rather than a costly near-horizon invasion.  Xi's legacy aside, it made a lot of sense.  If I find it or similiar, I'll try to remember to link. 

Xi’s legacy will be a decade long worldwide depression and throw China back to the 1990s if an invasion touches the TSMC plants. Those facilities haven’t been easy to duplicate in other parts of the world.

[818SUDSFan]

On 5/28/2024 at 12:41 AM, ---I GREEN INFECTION I--- said:

https://x.com/lukepbeasley/status/1795102016512889220

I'm certain that asshat wearing an asshat believed Trump's X post of the other day in which Mr. Grumpy essentially said that Joe Biden has given the Department of Justice the go-ahead to kill him.

[SDSUfan]

On 5/28/2024 at 6:14 AM, RamSack said:

There was no easy way to get out of Afghanistan. 

I spent two months developing the plan to "jump" from Afghanistan to another location in the ME.  Four operational aircraft, ground support equipment, material ( spares etc.) and roughly 250 personnel spread across the AOR.  It took us 3 weeks to execute. Everything went flawlessly.

There is no easy way BUT there in an ORDERLY way to do it.  Go ahead and tell me it's not possible.

Biden is an incompetent buffoon who suffers from dementia and the people in his administration are grossly incompetent ideologues. 

[818SUDSFan]

On 5/28/2024 at 12:26 PM, sean327 said:

The CENTCOM plan was to utilize all five airbases to evacuate personnel and retrograde equipment. Bagram Air Base outside of Kabul, Kabul International Airport, Camp Leatherneck/Bastion in Helmand Province, Sinadad Air Base in Herat Province, and Kandahar International Airport in Kandahar. The plan called for a 90 day withdrawal, less if it could be done properly. Biden's National Security team rejected it and went with their abomination.

Welcome back Sean.

[grandjean87]

On 5/28/2024 at 2:19 PM, NMpackalum said:

Xi’s legacy will be a decade long worldwide depression and throw China back to the 1990s if an invasion touches the TSMC plants. Those facilities haven’t been easy to duplicate in other parts of the world.

The potential costs to China of a military invasion of Taiwan are immense.  I lean to the long march strategy of absorption into their sphere of influence, but then again, Xi is asshole.