Palestine Legal and the New McCarthyism

[Nevada Convert]

On 5/25/2024 at 11:20 PM, sactowndog said:

Yeah those primi’s in hospitals and 2 year olds are clearly Hamas fighters.  Our capacity for self delusion never fails to amaze me.  10 years ago I thought the Holocaust could never happen here.  Now I no longer believe that to be true.  

I know you only get your news from deathtojesusamerica.com, hornyhamastinianmilfs.com & arabhotslutsxxx.com, but apparently no one has told you about shields of all ages, hospitals being used to engage the IDF as cover, hospitals being used to cover command and control tunnels, etc. 

I suppose you also think we committed genocide in Iraq, Afghanistan and the 1.6 million Japs in the Imperial Army era of WWII we had to kill to neuter them. These were started with attacks on us.

It’s very simple to learn from history. Do not majority attack/fvck with a country, or support a terrorist organization within your people that attacks/fvcks with a country that will respond by neutering you with force. There are consequences for attacking a country, and that means civilians are sadly going to die.

Maybe someday you’ll be interested in the truth, but I doubt it. 

[sactowndog]

On 5/26/2024 at 2:55 AM, Nevada Convert said:

I know you only get your news from deathtojesusamerica.com, hornyhamastinianmilfs.com & arabhotslutsxxx.com, but apparently no one has told you about shields of all ages, hospitals being used to engage the IDF as cover, hospitals being used to cover command and control tunnels, etc. 

I suppose you also think we committed genocide in Iraq, Afghanistan and the 1.6 million Japs in the Imperial Army era of WWII we had to kill to neuter them. These were started with attacks on us.

It’s very simple to learn from history. Do not majority attack/fvck with a country, or support a terrorist organization within your people that attacks/fvcks with a country that will respond by neutering you with force. There are consequences for attacking a country, and that means civilians are sadly going to die.

Maybe someday you’ll be interested in the truth, but I doubt it. 

Gaza is a country?  Funny don’t remember it being listed anywhere.

As for groups within our country I don’t recall us wiping out white trash women and children after the McVeigh bombing.  We did however wipe out black women and children and destroy every black owned building in Tulsa.   Tulsa or the Trail of Tears is a much closer analogy in history which I’m sure you would have supported at the time.

the people who haven’t learned from history like the Trail of Tears and the Tulsa Massacre are Southern Trump supporters like you.  I’m sure your forefathers rationalized and cheered on both those events.  

BTW I go to church every week and give a fair share of my income to encourage the teaching of his word.  I am quite certain from reading the Gospel, Jesus would have sided with Jewish Voices for Peace and not the Jewish National Front.   

let me remind you of Matthew 7: 13-14

“You can enter God's Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad and its gate is wide for the many who chose that way.  But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it.

[AztecAlien]

On 5/26/2024 at 9:29 AM, sactowndog said:

Gaza is a country?  Funny don’t remember it being listed anywhere.

As for groups within our country I don’t recall us wiping out white trash women and children after the McVeigh bombing.  We did however wipe out black women and children and destroy every black owned building in Tulsa.   Tulsa is a much closer analogy in history which I’m sure you would have supported at the time.

BTW I go to church every week and give a fair share of my income to encourage the teaching of his word.  I am quite certain from reading the Gospel, Jesus would have sided with Jewish Voices for Peace and not the Jewish National Front.   

the people who haven’t learned from history like the trail of tears and the Tulsa Massacre are Southern Trump supporters like you.  I’m sure your forefathers rationalized and cheered on both those events.  

We? Are you saying the United States and the military were responsible for what happened in Tulsa, OK, in 1921? The Oklahoma National Guard didn't help matters during the riots. It was a disgusting part of U.S. history. Our judicial system failed, no argument there. However, the U.S. military did not attack. It was white supremacist that retaliated from sexual assault allegations. As wrong and vile as those riots were, you're reaching here. 

Btw, Hamas just launched rockets into Tel Aviv. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ckrr0e3y29po

Hope you are enjoying your Memorial Day weekend. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sactowndog]

On 5/26/2024 at 9:21 AM, AztecAlien said:

We? Are you saying the United States and the military were responsible for what happened in Tulsa, OK, in 1921? The OK National Guard didn't help matters during the riots, and it was a disgusting part of history and our judicial system failed to make it right. However, the U.S. military did not attack. It was white supremacist that retaliated from sexual assault allegations. As wrong and vile as it was, You're reaching here. 

Btw, Hamas just launched rockets into Tel Aviv. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ckrr0e3y29po

Hope you are enjoying your Memorial Day weekend. 

 

Our military absolutely were involved in the trail of tears and the government also set up the infamous Catholic re-education centers for Native Americans.

I’m not stretching at all…..

 

hope you have a good Memorial Day and remember history just repeats itself.  

[AztecAlien]

On 5/26/2024 at 10:42 AM, sactowndog said:

Our military absolutely were involved in the trail of tears and the government also set up the infamous Catholic re-education centers for Native Americans.

I’m not stretching at all…..

hope you have a good Memorial Day and remember history just repeats itself.  

You changed the subject again. However, you're not going to get an argument from me regarding the U.S. military involvement when it comes to the treatment of Native Americans. 

 

[sactowndog]

On 5/26/2024 at 9:48 AM, AztecAlien said:

You changed the subject again. However, you're not going to get an argument from me regarding the U.S. military involvement when it comes to the treatment of Native Americans. 

 

Sorry you replied before I edited it.  I decided the Trail of Tears was a more apt analogy and edited my post.  I didn’t realize you replied prior to my edit. 
 

it comes complete with calls for re-education camps from Likud supporters.

 

 

[818SUDSFan]

On 5/25/2024 at 12:16 PM, AztecAlien said:

I find it humorous that the majority of this board thinks that any source outside of CNN or MSNBC is somehow always biased. What's also funny, is I posted a link from CNN for a reason. It starts off with the poll and then gets into bias against Israel. The second link was just a random link that coincided with the many other links available that revealed the same polling numbers. 

Again, if you don't want a war, don't start one. Hamas has broken ceasefire agreements over and over and viciously attacked Israeli civilians, including women and children. If you want to support a population that supports terrorists that want dead Jews, have at it.

Last week, Fareed Zakaria had David Petraeus on his show. Although a huge mess when Petraeus took over, Iraq eventually became stabilized and it has since been as well-run a country as could have been expected and Zakaria wanted to know what Petraeus' plan had been. Petraeus said that "first and foremost" was to try to protect innocent civilians and persuade them that America's intent was not to harm them but to "make their lives better." Today, Zakaria had as a guest one of the founders of Human Rights Watch, Aryeh Neier, a Polish Jew whose parents escaped to the US shortly before the Nazis invaded that country. Neier said his initial reaction was that Israel was morally right in "retaliating" against Hamas for the October 7 atrocity. However, Neier's opinion gradually changed based upon such things as the absence of any plan for Gaza once the fighting stops, the IDF's use of 2K lb. bombs which are not designed for urban warfare, and reports that the IDF has acted to delay receipt of medical supplies to southern Gaza. The result has been far more civilian casualties than should be expected, Neier said, as well as likely creating greater animosity toward the Israeli government than had been the case and he therefore thinks the Israeli government should have curtailed its military action several months ago.

I agree with Petraeous and Neier about how Israel SHOULD have conducted itself. But if you want to support a military action that has pushed things beyond the necessary level and shown little regard for the lives of innocent Palestinians, have at it.

[sactowndog]

On 5/26/2024 at 11:38 AM, 818SUDSFan said:

Last week, Fareed Zakaria had David Petraeus on his show. Although a huge mess when Petraeus took over, Iraq eventually became stabilized and it has since been as well-run a country as could have been expected and Zakaria wanted to know what Petraeus' plan had been. Petraeus said that "first and foremost" was to try to protect innocent civilians and persuade them that America's intent was not to harm them but to "make their lives better." Today, Zakaria had as a guest one of the founders of Human Rights Watch, Aryeh Neier, a Polish Jew whose parents escaped to the US shortly before the Nazis invaded that country. Neier said his initial reaction was that Israel was morally right in "retaliating" against Hamas for the October 7 atrocity. However, Neier's opinion gradually changed based upon such things as the absence of any plan for Gaza once the fighting stops, the IDF's use of 2K lb. bombs which are not designed for urban warfare, and reports that the IDF has acted to delay receipt of medical supplies to southern Gaza. The result has been far more civilian casualties than should be expected, Neier said, as well as likely creating greater animosity toward the Israeli government than had been the case and he therefore thinks the Israeli government should have curtailed its military action several months ago.

I agree with Petraeous and Neier about how Israel SHOULD have conducted itself. But if you want to support a military action that has pushed things beyond the necessary level and shown little regard for the lives of innocent Palestinians, have at it.

even when we try to be balanced we arent.  The leader of these settlers is Itamar Ben-Gvir who controls Israel Security Services and is a close ally of Bibi.  These actions are state sponsored just like Hitler’s Brown Shirts.

 

[818SUDSFan]

On 5/26/2024 at 12:24 PM, sactowndog said:

even when we try to be balanced we arent.  The leader of these settlers is Itamar Ben-Gvir who controls Israel Security Services and is a close ally of Bibi.  These actions are state sponsored just like Hitler’s Brown Shirts.

It appears from that the IDF is culpable only to the extent soldiers are doing little if anything to stop that. However, do they have arresting authority? And where the heck are the cops?

My speculation about the answer to the latter question is that despite the fact polls show that something like 2/3 of Israelis are opposed to such conduct, those ultra-religious people are akin to the ultra-religious nutjobs we have in our country who condone Trump's horse poop comments about "good people on both sides" including those who marched chanting "Jews will not replace us," women "bleeding out of their uh . . . ," the MAGA "Reich" and similar vile stuff.

[sactowndog]

On 5/26/2024 at 12:57 PM, 818SUDSFan said:

It appears from that the IDF is culpable only to the extent soldiers are doing little if anything to stop that. However, do they have arresting authority? And where the heck are the cops?

My speculation about the answer to the latter question is that despite the fact polls show that something like 2/3 of Israelis are opposed to such conduct, those ultra-religious people are akin to the ultra-religious nutjobs we have in our country who condone Trump's horse poop comments about "good people on both sides" including those who marched chanting "Jews will not replace us," women "bleeding out of their uh . . . ," the MAGA "Reich" and similar vile stuff.

The cops are under the control of Ben-Gvir.  Where do you think they are?  They are probably helping 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itamar_Ben-Gvir

 

[mysfit]

Genocide or ethnic cleansing, one of those IS being committed by the government of Israel and no matter which one you call it, it's wrong. It is indefensible and no, Oct 7 heinous as it was is not a justification. It is a disproportionate response. 

The majority of the world and even many Israeli's are standing up against it because we know it's wrong.

[mysfit]

And let me just add that for decades the world has ignored the fact that the Palestinians deserve their own State. That inaction helped the apartheid like conditions and misery of the Palestinians and no one, not Hamas, not Israeli,not the US and not the world has clean hands in this matter.

Create a Palestinian state, it can be temporarily managed by a coalition. Send Mossad after Hamas as they did those behind the Olympic hostages. If the US wants to help make the CIA and defense satellites available just don't say that's what's going on. But for God's sakes stop what the Israeli government is doing in Gaza and the West Bank. There will never be peace until Israeli is out of there. It's the first step needed for ME resolution. If you don't agree with more or think I'm an idiot that's fine. The  bloodshed, starvation and deprivation needs to stop.

It needs to stop now.

[RSF]

On 5/27/2024 at 1:18 PM, mysfit said:

And let me just add that for decades the world has ignored the fact that the Palestinians deserve their own State. That inaction helped the apartheid like conditions and misery of the Palestinians and no one, not Hamas, not Israeli,not the US and not the world has clean hands in this matter.

Create a Palestinian state, it can be temporarily managed by a coalition. Send Mossad after Hamas as they did those behind the Olympic hostages. If the US wants to help make the CIA and defense satellites available just don't say that's what's going on. But for God's sakes stop what the Israeli government is doing in Gaza and the West Bank. There will never be peace until Israeli is out of there. It's the first step needed for ME resolution. If you don't agree with more or think I'm an idiot that's fine. The  bloodshed, starvation and deprivation needs to stop.

It needs to stop now.

Even if true, the one intractable issue is that both sides want the same plots of land (most notably Jerusalem).  And unlike most deals which require some compromise, neither side is really that willing to do that.  Remember, there WAS an attempted 2 state solution - the UN Partition Plan for Palestine in 1947.  And it immediately resulted in the '48 War.  And all the subsequent conflicts.

[sactowndog]

On 5/27/2024 at 11:58 AM, RSF said:

Even if true, the one intractable issue is that both sides want the same plots of land (most notably Jerusalem).  And unlike most deals which require some compromise, neither side is really that willing to do that.  Remember, there WAS an attempted 2 state solution - the UN Partition Plan for Palestine in 1947.  And it immediately resulted in the '48 War.  And all the subsequent conflicts.

You left out there was a peace deal and it resulted in the assassination of the Israeli Prime Minister by right wing nut jobs.  Many Jews recognize how far things have gotten out of hand more than most Americans …..

Oh and before some like @mugtang try to paint them as a fringe let me again remind you the leader controls Israel Security Services and is a close ally of Netanyahu.  

[818SUDSFan]

On 5/27/2024 at 11:58 AM, RSF said:

Even if true, the one intractable issue is that both sides want the same plots of land (most notably Jerusalem).  And unlike most deals which require some compromise, neither side is really that willing to do that.  Remember, there WAS an attempted 2 state solution - the UN Partition Plan for Palestine in 1947.  And it immediately resulted in the '48 War.  And all the subsequent conflicts.

You make a good point. However, there is now clearly momentum for European states to "recognize" Palestine as an independent state. Although that may prove to have only modest effect economically, it will probably stop the momentum of the Arab countries from making nice with Israel. And what options will Israel have then? Becoming trading partners with the likes of Turkey and Hungary or even worse, Russia?

I think after many years of the far-right dominating Israeli politics, their days are beginning to be numbered.

[mugtang]

On 5/27/2024 at 11:18 AM, mysfit said:

And let me just add that for decades the world has ignored the fact that the Palestinians deserve their own State. That inaction helped the apartheid like conditions and misery of the Palestinians and no one, not Hamas, not Israeli,not the US and not the world has clean hands in this matter.

Create a Palestinian state, it can be temporarily managed by a coalition. Send Mossad after Hamas as they did those behind the Olympic hostages. If the US wants to help make the CIA and defense satellites available just don't say that's what's going on. But for God's sakes stop what the Israeli government is doing in Gaza and the West Bank. There will never be peace until Israeli is out of there. It's the first step needed for ME resolution. If you don't agree with more or think I'm an idiot that's fine. The  bloodshed, starvation and deprivation needs to stop.

It needs to stop now.

I’d disagree the world has ignored the need for a Palestinian state. There hasn’t been much action on it in the last 25 years since the collapse of the Oslo accords but not much effort since. Before that there were multiple attempts that didn’t happen because of various Israeli and/or Palestinian demands.   

 

[mugtang]

On 5/27/2024 at 4:02 PM, sactowndog said:

You left out there was a peace deal and it resulted in the assassination of the Israeli Prime Minister by right wing nut jobs.  Many Jews recognize how far things have gotten out of hand more than most Americans …..

Oh and before some like @mugtang try to paint them as a fringe let me again remind you the leader controls Israel Security Services and is a close ally of Netanyahu.  

[crixus]

On 5/23/2024 at 9:45 PM, Spaztecs said:

This is the start of the coming Trumpists Autocracy. Tip of the coming shaft. 

You think, talk and act like we tell you or else.

These people will legislate which side we're supposed to be on 

[sactowndog]

On 5/27/2024 at 4:53 PM, mugtang said:

only because I respect you 

[mysfit]

On 5/27/2024 at 5:44 PM, mugtang said:

I’d disagree the world has ignored the need for a Palestinian state. There hasn’t been much action on it in the last 25 years since the collapse of the Oslo accords but not much effort since. Before that there were multiple attempts that didn’t happen because of various Israeli and/or Palestinian demands.   

 

Well 25 years counts as several decades doesn't it? :)

It hasn't been a priority and as a result there was no accountability for Israeli's oppression and continued encroachment into Palestinian lands, especially the West Bank. It needs a solution once and for all. They deserve better. They are just fathers, mothers, sons and daughters who just want to live and have food, shelter and a little happiness. That isn't too much to ask for, is it? That's what I see when I look at Gaza and the West Bank. It breaks my heart what they are trying to survive.