sactowndog Posted May 25 Author Share Posted May 25 On 5/24/2024 at 4:35 PM, CPslograd said: Well, what was October 7 if not ethnic cleansing? Look dude, any nation that intends to remain a nation would have to respond forcefully. Hamas killed women and children for the expressed purpose of killing women and children, Israel kills women and children as collateral damage of their attempts to kill terrorists. For some reason you canr see the difference, or maybe you just hate Israelis. First I hate Likud and their Jewish Power Party allies…… National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir An illegal settler in the occupied West Bank who heads the far-right Jewish Power Party, Ben-Gvir secured an expanded cabinet ministry in charge of police. He has promised to focus on law and order for all citizens, but he favours freer open-fire regulations for Israeli security forces. He once belonged to Kahane Chai, a Jewish armed group that is blacklisted in Israel and the United States. He has since disavowed some Kahane views. In 2007, he was convicted of incitement against Palestinians and support for terrorism. He is now the National Security Minister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawlorfaithful Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 On 5/24/2024 at 5:28 PM, DestinFlPackfan said: I wonder how many here...if time was moved back...would be protesting the Vietnam War with the same reasoning. We’re not involved. Well except for the American hostages still held by Hamas and the wounded soldiers fired upon setting up a pier to deliver reliief. Nobody on our side died in the Gulf of Tonkin incident. The Israeli’s had a Pearl Harbor level attack aimed at civilians. Makes you wonder who would be protesting for the Japanese if time was moved back. 3 Quote We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactowndog Posted May 25 Author Share Posted May 25 On 5/24/2024 at 4:35 PM, CPslograd said: Well, what was October 7 if not ethnic cleansing? Look dude, any nation that intends to remain a nation would have to respond forcefully. Hamas killed women and children for the expressed purpose of killing women and children, Israel kills women and children as collateral damage of their attempts to kill terrorists. For some reason you canr see the difference, or maybe you just hate Israelis. Second anyone who thinks Israel just kills women and children in response to Oct 7 has not been paying attention to the last 20 years or is just willfully ignorant. Not to mention when Sept 11 happened we had Jets up in hours across a much wider area. It took Israel 15 hours to respond to an attack in an area the size of New Jersey across the most surveilled border in the world. Ben-Gvir is an evil SOB who knew it was coming. As for why I stand up for them I will tell you why. I was 18 when I asked my Grandfather why he did nothing when we interred the Japanese. He had no good answer why he stayed silent. At the time I promised myself I would not stay silent in the face of a similar injustice. The rest of you can stay silent or, worse in your case, be complicit in our generation’s Internment/trail of tears. But it sure as hell won’t be me talking to my grandson in 20 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactowndog Posted May 25 Author Share Posted May 25 On 5/24/2024 at 10:51 AM, Spaztecs said: Saving the civilian contractors the cost of razing it themselves. ? Many of these buildings are severely damaged. Then again, the end result is the Gaza Strip is officially a 3rd world hell hole. er, I meant sacrifice zone Err wrong the were purposefully razed but keep trying to make yourself feel justified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactowndog Posted May 25 Author Share Posted May 25 On 5/24/2024 at 11:32 AM, AztecAlien said: One thread you say, RSF? I am not surprised you don’t get the concept. Most of those posts were about Jewish leaders invoking Amalek which Bibi did. Amalek is genocide As others quickly pointed out, God commands King Saul in the first Book of Samuel to kill every person in Amalek, a rival nation to ancient Israel. “This is what the Lord Almighty says,” the prophet Samuel tells Saul. “‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’” Bibi invoked it as have other far right Jewish religious zealots. It doesn’t surprise me in the least you don’t know your Bible. Whether I think it is Genocide or not doesn’t change the fact many Israeli leaders have called for it in terms the far right “fake Christians” would not understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AztecAlien Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 On 5/25/2024 at 12:50 AM, sactowndog said: I am not surprised you don’t get the concept. Most of those posts were about Jewish leaders invoking Amalek which Bibi did. Amalek is genocide As others quickly pointed out, God commands King Saul in the first Book of Samuel to kill every person in Amalek, a rival nation to ancient Israel. “This is what the Lord Almighty says,” the prophet Samuel tells Saul. “‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’” Bibi invoked it as have other far right Jewish religious zealots. It doesn’t surprise me in the least you don’t know your Bible. Whether I think it is Genocide or not doesn’t change the fact many Israeli leaders have called for it in terms the far right “fake Christians” would not understand. You have been outed. Keep digging yourself deeper. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactowndog Posted May 25 Author Share Posted May 25 On 5/24/2024 at 11:44 AM, RSF said: Whatever, dude. So it's 100 to 1 in my favor. Happy? You couldn't just take the rare show of support and be happy. You had to try and top it and +++++ed it up. Congrats. No he is still wrong. Me quoting calls for Amalek and explaining it is literally a call for genocide is not me saying Israel’s actions are genocide. But @AztecAlien isn’t smart enough to understand the difference and people like @CPslograd just don’t give a shit as long as their team does it. As for Itamar, it’s kind of like putting a white supremacist in charge of DOJ and then claiming the Tulsa Massacre was black people‘s fault. That essentially is what @mugtang is doing. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AztecAlien Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 On 5/25/2024 at 12:53 AM, sactowndog said: No he is still wrong. Me quoting calls for Amalek and explaining it is literally a call for genocide is not me saying Israel’s actions are genocide. But @AztecAlien isn’t smart enough to understand the difference and people like @CPslograd just don’t give a shit as long as their team does it. As for Itamar, it’s kind of like putting a white supremacist in charge of DOJ and then claiming the Tulsa Massacre was black people‘s fault. That essentially is what @mugtang is doing. Keep trying sackless. Of course, you're going to claim the people calling you out don't understand, because you are a liar. You posted that Israel is committing genocide multiple times, in multiple threads, and now your trying to backtrack. I showed most, but not all, the posts from you stating Israel has committed genocide. You also posted multiple Hamas propaganda hit pieces as well that have been debunked. Keep trying to convince the board you're not a terrorist sympathizer. And playing the race card is total desperation. You don't have too many allies here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaztecs Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 On 5/25/2024 at 12:39 AM, sactowndog said: Err wrong the were purposefully razed but keep trying to make yourself feel justified. Not trying to justify anything. 1 Quote "We don't have evidence but, we have lot's of theories." Americans Mayor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaztecs Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 On 5/25/2024 at 1:20 AM, AztecAlien said: Keep trying sackless. Of course, you're going to claim the people calling you out don't understand, because you are a liar. You posted that Israel is committing genocide multiple times, in multiple threads, and now your trying to backtrack. I showed most, but not all, the posts from you stating Israel has committed genocide. You also posted multiple Hamas propaganda hit pieces as well that have been debunked. Keep trying to convince the board you're not a terrorist sympathizer. And playing the race card is total desperation. You don't have too many allies here. Blindly backing Israel is stupidity. They have a lot of blood on their hands as well. Their constant pushing into Gaza or the West Bank for their new settlements isn't exactly a peaceful or harmonious move on their part. It does nothing to foster peaceful relations with Palestine. Yet, somehow in the minds of all you Palestinian haters, this is all on Palestine. roflmao 1 1 Quote "We don't have evidence but, we have lot's of theories." Americans Mayor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AztecAlien Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 On 5/25/2024 at 8:10 AM, Spaztecs said: Blindly backing Israel is stupidity. They have a lot of blood on their hands as well. Their constant pushing into Gaza or the West Bank for their new settlements isn't exactly a peaceful or harmonious move on their part. It does nothing to foster peaceful relations with Palestine. Yet, somehow in the minds of all you Palestinian haters, this is all on Palestine. roflmao If the Palestinian people don't want a war, then maybe, just maybe they shouldn't support the people who do. 2023 https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html 2024 https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/03/22/poll-hamas-remains-popular-among-palestinians/ "According to the poll, only seven percent of Gazans blamed Hamas for their suffering. Seventy-one percent of all Palestinians supported Hamas's decision to attack Israel on October 7 — up 14 points among Gazans and down 11 points among West Bank Palestinians compared to three months ago." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
818SUDSFan Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 On 5/25/2024 at 7:50 AM, AztecAlien said: If the Palestinian people don't want a war, then maybe, just maybe they shouldn't support the people who do. https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/03/22/poll-hamas-remains-popular-among-palestinians/ "According to the poll, only seven percent of Gazans blamed Hamas for their suffering. Seventy-one percent of all Palestinians supported Hamas's decision to attack Israel on October 7 — up 14 points among Gazans and down 11 points among West Bank Palestinians compared to three months ago." Regarding your latter point, the following is from Wikipedia: The Foundation for Defense of Democracies (FDD) is non-profit neoconservative[1][2][3] think tank [4 FDD was founded shortly after the September 11 attacks in 2001.[9] In the initial documents filed for tax-exempt status with the Internal Revenue Service, FDD's stated mission was to "provide education to enhance Israel's image in North America and the public's understanding of issues affecting Israeli-Arab relations". Good job citing a study sanctioned by such an unbiased organization. On your first point, this is also from Wikipedia: Following the Fatah–Hamas conflict that started in 2006, Hamas formed a government ruling the Gaza Strip without elections. Gazan Prime Minister Haniyye announced in September 2012 the formation of a second Hamas government, also without elections. Contrast that with Israelis who for decades elected moderate governments but have now allowed themselves, through free and fair elections, to be governed by a coalition of far-right politicians who condone ultra-religious bigoted Jews to do exactly what Spaztecs has said, the result of which has also been exactly what Spaztecs has said. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mugtang Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 On 5/24/2024 at 11:53 PM, sactowndog said: No he is still wrong. Me quoting calls for Amalek and explaining it is literally a call for genocide is not me saying Israel’s actions are genocide. But @AztecAlien isn’t smart enough to understand the difference and people like @CPslograd just don’t give a shit as long as their team does it. As for Itamar, it’s kind of like putting a white supremacist in charge of DOJ and then claiming the Tulsa Massacre was black people‘s fault. That essentially is what @mugtang is doing. Sorry. I won’t support an organization, Hamas, that found it ok to invade Israel, attack civilians, brutally rape, murder, behead people, murder children in their cribs and then kidnap them. And then this organization hides behind women and children, places weapons encampments inside hospitals & schools and then screams when Israel attacks them and causes collateral damage. Don’t believe the hype You’re letting your antisemitism shine through in your lapping up Hamas propaganda. You want the war to end? You should be demanding Hamas release all of the hostages they’re still holding. Israel is fighting against animals that do this: https://x.com/smobserved/status/1710801186528641091?s=46&t=0rZccjxHnQ9umoQFPThY1g and this: https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/26/middleeast/amit-soussana-israeli-hostage-hamas-sexual-assault-intl?cid=ios_app and really this website (not affiliated with Hamas but was put together by Israeli citizens to document the horrors of Hamas). Just watch all the videos and tell me you still feel sympathy for Hamas. https://www.hamas.com But in reality, sactown, what you’re doing is emboldening people who rape and murder children. I didn’t realize you were an apologist for those types of people. Essentially what you’re doing is putting a rapist & murderer in charge of the DOJ and then blaming women for getting raped and murdered. Quote thelawlorfaithful, on 31 Dec 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:One of the rules I live by: never underestimate a man in a dandy looking sweater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AztecAlien Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 On 5/25/2024 at 12:34 PM, 818SUDSFan said: Regarding your latter point, the following is from Wikipedia: The Foundation for Defense of Democracies (FDD) is non-profit neoconservative[1][2][3] think tank [4 FDD was founded shortly after the September 11 attacks in 2001.[9] In the initial documents filed for tax-exempt status with the Internal Revenue Service, FDD's stated mission was to "provide education to enhance Israel's image in North America and the public's understanding of issues affecting Israeli-Arab relations". Good job citing a study sanctioned by such an unbiased organization. On your first point, this is also from Wikipedia: Following the Fatah–Hamas conflict that started in 2006, Hamas formed a government ruling the Gaza Strip without elections. Gazan Prime Minister Haniyye announced in September 2012 the formation of a second Hamas government, also without elections. Contrast that with Israelis who for decades elected moderate governments but have now allowed themselves, through free and fair elections, to be governed by a coalition of far-right politicians who condone ultra-religious bigoted Jews to do exactly what Spaztecs has said, the result of which has also been exactly what Spaztecs has said. I find it humorous that the majority of this board thinks that any source outside of CNN or MSNBC is somehow always biased. What's also funny, is I posted a link from CNN for a reason. It starts off with the poll and then gets into bias against Israel. The second link was just a random link that coincided with the many other links available that revealed the same polling numbers. Again, if you don't want a war, don't start one. Hamas has broken ceasefire agreements over and over and viciously attacked Israeli civilians, including women and children. If you want to support a population that supports terrorists that want dead Jews, have at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactowndog Posted May 25 Author Share Posted May 25 On 5/25/2024 at 12:04 PM, mugtang said: Sorry. I won’t support an organization, Hamas, that found it ok to invade Israel, attack civilians, brutally rape, murder, behead people, murder children in their cribs and then kidnap them. And then this organization hides behind women and children, places weapons encampments inside hospitals & schools and then screams when Israel attacks them and causes collateral damage. Don’t believe the hype You’re letting your antisemitism shine through in your lapping up Hamas propaganda. You want the war to end? You should be demanding Hamas release all of the hostages they’re still holding. Israel is fighting against animals that do this: https://x.com/smobserved/status/1710801186528641091?s=46&t=0rZccjxHnQ9umoQFPThY1g and this: https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/26/middleeast/amit-soussana-israeli-hostage-hamas-sexual-assault-intl?cid=ios_app and really this website (not affiliated with Hamas but was put together by Israeli citizens to document the horrors of Hamas). Just watch all the videos and tell me you still feel sympathy for Hamas. https://www.hamas.com But in reality, sactown, what you’re doing is emboldening people who rape and murder children. I didn’t realize you were an apologist for those types of people. Essentially what you’re doing is putting a rapist & murderer in charge of the DOJ and then blaming women for getting raped and murdered. I’m not supporting Hamas. I’m fine with the ICC indicting them and yes they are religious fanatics. the fact is the Jewish National Front is no different. You claim you are against the right wing settlers but conveniently ignore their leader is the Minister of National Security for Israel. Whether you or I think Israel has committed Genocide you ignore the fact that Bibi and Ben-Gvir have explicitly evoked Amalek which is an explicit call for genocide. It is you not I that backs an organization that murders women and children. You might want to ponder why most of the world agrees with me and not you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mugtang Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 On 5/25/2024 at 12:38 PM, sactowndog said: I’m not supporting Hamas. I’m fine with the ICC indicting them and yes they are religious fanatics. the fact is the Jewish National Front is no different. You claim you are against the right wing settlers but conveniently ignore their leader is the Minister of National Security for Israel. Whether you or I think Israel has committed Genocide you ignore the fact that Bibi and Ben-Gvir have explicitly evoked Amalek which is an explicit call for genocide. It is you not I that backs an organization that murders women and children. You might want to ponder why most of the world agrees with me and not you. I love that you’re doing whataboutism when you have called out many in the right for that very thing. Quote thelawlorfaithful, on 31 Dec 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:One of the rules I live by: never underestimate a man in a dandy looking sweater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactowndog Posted May 26 Author Share Posted May 26 On 5/25/2024 at 8:25 PM, mugtang said: I love that you’re doing whataboutism when you have called out many in the right for that very thing. So you are correct about me calling out Whataboutism. But am I doing that or am I calling out your Gaslighting? Hamas is religious extremist evil group of people in charge of Gaza. I have not said Hamas was without blame. The Jewish National Front holds the security minister post. Ben Gvir is as much a religious evil extremist as Hamas. Here is one short paragraph about him…. Ben Gvir, who is a settler in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, has called for the expulsion of Arab citizens of Israel who are not loyal to Israel and has faced criminal charges of hate speech against Arabs.[7][8][6] He is "widely known for his openly racist, anti-Arab views and activities".[9] Ben Gvir was also previously convicted of supporting Kach, classified by Israel as a terrorist group, which espoused Kahanism, an anti-Arab and religious Zionist ideology.[10] In the 1990s, he protested against the Oslo Accords and was seen brandishing a Cadillac hood ornament stolen from Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin's car, who was later assassinated.[11][12] Ben Gvir was known to have a portrait in his living room of Baruch Goldstein, a Jewish extremist and Israeli-American mass murderer who massacred 29 Palestinian Muslim worshipers and wounded 125 others in the 1994 Cave of the Patriarchs massacre in Hebron. He removed the portrait after he entered politics.[7] In 2007, Ben Gvir was found guilty in an Israeli court of inciting support to a racist terrorist organization.[13] And yet most on this board, and most disappointedly you, continue to give this guy and his colleagues a free pass. He is part of the Israeli Government in power. So again tell me, who is supporting religious extremists willing to kill women and children unconditionally? Who is justifying behavior clearly violating the Geneva Convention? It certainly is not me. I am not whatabouting Hamas because I am not justifying their behaviour or words. I hope the ICC hangs them. I hope they hang Ben Gvir and Bibi right next to them. It’s you using whataboutism to justify some pretty evil people. The difference between you and I is …. I believe both sides are evil. You only believe one side is. You can’t say the settlers are bad but the Israeli Government is fine. The settlers are in +++++ing Power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactowndog Posted May 26 Author Share Posted May 26 On 5/25/2024 at 7:50 AM, AztecAlien said: If the Palestinian people don't want a war, then maybe, just maybe they shouldn't support the people who do. 2023 https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html 2024 https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/03/22/poll-hamas-remains-popular-among-palestinians/ "According to the poll, only seven percent of Gazans blamed Hamas for their suffering. Seventy-one percent of all Palestinians supported Hamas's decision to attack Israel on October 7 — up 14 points among Gazans and down 11 points among West Bank Palestinians compared to three months ago." If the Israeli people don’t want to be accused of ethnic cleansng don’t put people like this in power……. Ben Gvir, who is a settler in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, has called for the expulsion of Arab citizens of Israel who are not loyal to Israel and has faced criminal charges of hate speech against Arabs.[7][8][6] He is "widely known for his openly racist, anti-Arab views and activities".[9] Ben Gvir was also previously convicted of supporting Kach, classified by Israel as a terrorist group, which espoused Kahanism, an anti-Arab and religious Zionist ideology.[10] In the 1990s, he protested against the Oslo Accords and was seen brandishing a Cadillac hood ornament stolen from Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin's car, who was later assassinated.[11][12] Ben Gvir was known to have a portrait in his living room of Baruch Goldstein, a Jewish extremist and Israeli-American mass murderer who massacred 29 Palestinian Muslim worshipers and wounded 125 others in the 1994 Cave of the Patriarchs massacre in Hebron. He removed the portrait after he entered politics.[7] In 2007, Ben Gvir was found guilty in an Israeli court of inciting support to a racist terrorist organization.[13] Ben Gvir had been long accused of being a provocateur, having led several contentious marches to the Temple Mount as an activist and member of Knesset, through Jerusalem's Old City Muslim Quarter, and set up an office in the Sheikh Jarrah neighborhood which witnessed several evictions of Palestinians.[14]On 3 January 2023, he visited the Temple Mount where the al-Aqsa Mosque is located, spurring an international wave of criticism that labelled his visit purposely provocative.[14] As a lawyer, he is known for defending Jews accused of terrorism on trial in Israel.[15] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevada Convert Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 On 5/23/2024 at 9:34 PM, mugtang said: All credibility is lost when referring to what is happening in Israel and Palestine as a genocide. It’s a war. Hamas hides behind civilians. Civilians die because Hamas hides behind them. The only entity responsible for the “genocide” is Hamas. And Hamas is the one releasing death figures. You don’t think they’re inflating them? Nobody refers to the Russian war in Ukraine as a genocide but a higher percentage of the population has been killed in Ukraine then Gaza. The Hamas Health Ministry currently claims that 35,000 civilians have died. We started the war with 30,000 to 35,000 Hamas fighters in Gaza, and that’s who the IDF has been killing. Now we’re in the very south of Gaza. Of course Hamas will report all of the killed Hamas fighters as civilians deaths. So counting the Hamas fighters and civilians shields, that number sounds about right. There haven’t been any cranes or digging equipment in Gaza to find out who’s buried under the gazillions of tons of concrete buildings. Missing lists are the only way to try and figure it out, and there’s a lot of chaos and confusion. So no one really knows how many have been killed, but 35,000 including Hamas and civilian shields sounds about right, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactowndog Posted May 26 Author Share Posted May 26 On 5/25/2024 at 11:12 PM, Nevada Convert said: The Hamas Health Ministry currently claims that 35,000 civilians have died. We started the war with 30,000 to 35,000 Hamas fighters in Gaza, and that’s who the IDF has been killing. Now we’re in the very south of Gaza. Of course Hamas will report all of the killed Hamas fighters as civilians deaths. So counting the Hamas fighters and civilians shields, that number sounds about right. There haven’t been any cranes or digging equipment in Gaza to find out who’s buried under the gazillions of tons of concrete buildings. Missing lists are the only way to try and figure it out, and there’s a lot of chaos and confusion. So no one really knows how many have been killed, but 35,000 including Hamas and civilian shields sounds about right, Yeah those primi’s in hospitals and 2 year olds are clearly Hamas fighters. Our capacity for self delusion never fails to amaze me. 10 years ago I thought the Holocaust could never happen here. Now I no longer believe that to be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...