Harrison Butker

[Nevada Convert]

On 5/22/2024 at 6:05 PM, tailingpermit said:

This is getting out of control!!!!!

This is fake.

[grandjean87]

On 5/22/2024 at 7:07 PM, Nevada Convert said:

It’s just so amazing how people like you let a different strokes dude get so under your skin and get you into full drama queen mode. I don’t agree with some of his opinions, but that doesn’t make him an asshole. It makes you intolerant to people that don’t go your way. That’s a real problem with lefty folks like you is that you’re so fvcking arrogant with your ‘my way or the highway’. That is the opposite of progressive, son. 

Even for you, that's a pretty ignorant take. Really ignorant, but of course you didn't understand it nor care to do anything but argue. Yer kinda funny, man.  

I have never said he didn't have the right to his opinions.  He just went black and white and "I've got all the truth thing".  Seriously, Convert do you think it's okay to go against your church's teachings and efforts to heal ties with Jews by false statements about a bill that hasn't passed, has no go to jail stuff, nor statements that are 180° from the theology and teachings of the church?  Do you think it's okay to broad brush criticisms of your church's clergy and stand up like yer farts don't smell?  

Yer an idjit, my friend. 

[Nevada Convert]

On 5/22/2024 at 6:17 PM, grandjean87 said:

Even for you, that's a pretty ignorant take. Really ignorant, but of course you didn't understand it nor care to do anything but argue. Yer kinda funny, man.  

I have never said he didn't have the right to his opinions.  He just went black and white and "I've got all the truth thing".  Seriously, Convert do you think it's okay to go against your church's teachings and efforts to heal ties with Jews by false statements about a bill that hasn't passed, has no go to jail stuff, nor statements that are 180° from the theology and teachings of the church?  Do you think it's okay to broad brush criticisms of your church's clergy and stand up like yer farts don't smell?  

Yer an idjit, my friend. 

The problem I had with his speech is that he dropped some quick statements that weren’t made clear and were questionably ambiguous. Before I let my balls explode over this, I would want some clarification from him before I judged. You are taking some of those ambiguous statements and drawing conclusions from them that could be false. That’s not fair.

News flash for you. I know you’re a social lefty, but the traditional Catholic teachings just happen to be very conservative. I know you have a boner for the Pope as the great white hope for your pro-regressive vision, but the Pope isn’t God, and he’s not going to suddenly take the church into Catholib. He’s trying, but it ain’t going to work. 

Of course I know you’re not saying that he doesn’t have a right to say that. Duh. But calling someone an asshole based on his nonconformance per YOUR interpretation of church teachings? Really? Do you call Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Dick Durbin (the list in loooong) assholes because they’re Catholib? …..which means they pimp all kinds of viewpoints that are very much against church teachings. Late term abortion, gay marriage, etc. Not even the current Pope will bless a gay marriage/union…..only the individual people separated. I don’t see you making posts and threads calling the lefty folks in Congress assholes for going against church teachings. 

There are a lot of areas where Catholicism is conservative. That’s just a fact. You’re being an intolerant prick to Butker. Some of his statements need clarification, I give you that. But even if he’s blatantly violating church teaching on an issue, so are left winger Catholibs in Congress, and you ain’t calling them assholes, general skippy. 

 

[grandjean87]

On 5/22/2024 at 8:28 PM, Nevada Convert said:

The problem I had with his speech is that he dropped some quick statements that weren’t made clear and were questionably ambiguous. Before I let my balls explode over this, I would want some clarification from him before I judged. You are taking some of those ambiguous statements and drawing conclusions from them that could be false. That’s not fair.

News flash for you. I know you’re a social lefty, but the traditional Catholic teachings just happen to be very conservative. I know you have a boner for the Pope as the great white hope for your pro-regressive vision, but the Pope isn’t God, and he’s not going to suddenly take the church into Catholib. He’s trying, but it ain’t going to work. 

Of course I know you’re not saying that he doesn’t have a right to say that. Duh. But calling someone an asshole based on his nonconformance per YOUR interpretation of church teachings? Really? Do you call Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Dick Durbin (the list in loooong) assholes because they’re Catholib, which means they pimp all kinds of viewpoints that are very much against church teachings. Late term abortion, gay marriage, etc. Not even the current Pope will bless a gay marriage/union…..only the individual people as separate. I don’t see you making posts and threads calling the lefty folks in Congress assholes for going against church teachings. 

There are a lot of areas where Catholicism is conservative. That’s just a fact. You’re being an intolerant prick to Butker. Some of his statements need clarification, I give you that. But even if he’s blatantly violating church teaching on an issue, so are left winger Catholibs in Congress, and you ain’t calling them assholes, general skippy. 

 

You are just spinning stuff around in yer small cranium w/o any understanding of the hierarchy of Catholic truths or really anything.  It's just moronic Convert musings and conflating of things I didn't even address.  Glad I filled part of yer day with activities, but this post was even  more ignorant than the ones before.  Keep trying. 
 

[Nevada Convert]

On 5/22/2024 at 7:35 PM, grandjean87 said:

You are just spinning stuff around in yer small cranium w/o any understanding of the hierarchy of Catholic truths or really anything.  It's just moronic Convert musings and conflating of things I didn't even address.  Glad I filled part of yer day with activities, but this post was even  more ignorant than the ones before.  Keep trying. 
 

It’s so easy to back left wing Catholibs into a corner, because you simply can’t be Catholic and abide by all of its basic teachings. You can’t, and this is all you can come up with. Just a big fluff of insults and ambiguity. “It’s just too big for you to understand, little one.” OK, Fvck off.
 

[grandjean87]

On 5/22/2024 at 8:42 PM, Nevada Convert said:

It’s so easy to back left wing Catholibs into a corner, because you simply can’t be Catholic and abide by all of its basic teachings. You can’t, and this is all you can come up with. Just a big fluff of insults and ambiguity. “It’s just too big for you to understand, little one.” OK, Fvck off.
 

You are unable to even comprehend the hierarchy of truths let alone make any analysis.  Tell me, what is the structure of that hierarchy?  Oh, you'll do some research. Lolololooo                    

You have no clue how stupid your comments are. But, that is in a long line of Convertisms.   

[Nevada Convert]

On 5/22/2024 at 7:59 PM, grandjean87 said:

You are unable to even comprehend the hierarchy of truths let alone make any analysis.  Tell me, what is the structure of that hierarchy?  Oh, you'll do some research. Lolololooo                    

You have no clue how stupid your comments are. But, that is in a long line of Convertisms.   

Dude, although I’m not anywhere near an expert on the Catholic Church, I know the basics, and I certainly understand the Hierarchy of Truths. Vatican II was in the 60’s, so there might be a Vatican III later this century, and that’s your only hope for any kind of significant change in church teachings. It’s pretty funny how you’re hanging your left wing hopes on that. A 3rd Vatican council would be enormously expensive, and Pope Francis has said there’s no need for one, anyway. 

You crack me up. You really think you’re soooo smart. They meet about once a century, and you act like it’s some evolving and fluid thing. Face it, you’re just a Jack Catholic just like Nancy, Chuck and Dick, and there’s nothing you can do about it other than re-study the church catechism and get more conservative. The Catholic Church is way too conservative for me, and I don’t like the Pope concept, anyway. Ain’t for me, at least. 

[Posturedoc]

On 5/22/2024 at 7:59 PM, grandjean87 said:

You are unable to even comprehend the hierarchy of truths let alone make any analysis.  Tell me, what is the structure of that hierarchy?  Oh, you'll do some research. Lolololooo                    

You have no clue how stupid your comments are. But, that is in a long line of Convertisms.   

Contard meme sighting! They are everywhere he posts and is rebutted.

I know you like to give posters a shot to get into deeper discussions where there might be some nuance and give and take, but that isn’t something he’s really capable of doing. He knows all always. You won’t change that by trying to engage him. Better to just point out what a dullard he is (you do that regularly enough but still try and engage him as if he might post something truly thoughtful rather than his top-of-consciousness word jumbles) and laugh at all the projection littering his attempts to tell you what kind of poster and person you are. As I wrote earlier, this has been him since day one. He hasn’t changed in a couple decades and probably isn’t capable of it. 

[youngredbullfan]

On 5/22/2024 at 8:36 PM, grandjean87 said:

Just to add to that statement and explain a bit about Butker's lengthy grad speech, some analysis and a related linked article. 

I'll start with my overall take that Butker is a young man, rich, at least somewhat famous, and very full of his beliefs of the truth. His grad speech, set from his  "traditional Catholic" movement perspective, was over the top arrogance from near start to finish. Pretty black and white.  

So, what did say?  I won't cover everything, but focus on his long bitch list of grievances and blanket criticisms of priests, bishops and USCCB, and the Church (errors included).  His broad-brushed criticisms painted caricatures of most priests and bishops seeking adulation, unconcerned about their teaching roles, weak, pandering, etc.  It wasn't subtle criticism.  It was egotistic and totally self-unaware wrapping it in lines like this "Focusing on my vocation while praying and fasting for these men will do more for the Church than me complaining about her leaders."  Jeebus. 

Butker referenced a 20th Century priest, already canonized (controversially), founder of Opus Dei, and icon in the traditional Catholic strand as one wedge in his multiple criticisms of clergy. He wants priests and bishops to give hell to their flock to follow strictly the teachings of the church on human sexuality even where he (Butker) is unaware of teachings supporting its approved method of birth control. It's like Harrison may one day seek to lead Gilead.  He also tossed in reference to St. Damien of Molokai, the 19th Century missionary to the leper colony, as if his broad brushing complaints of the Covid era (early political part of speech) needed more obliviousness to the Commandment about not killing.  It was like name dropping certain saints gave him authority over truth . 

Harrison made a very big point on the Traditional Latin Mass (TLM).   It's a real thing w/the new uber Catholic traditionalists. "I attend the TLM because I believe, just as the God of the Old Testament was pretty particular in how he wanted to be worshipped, the same holds true for us today."  Butker is apparently unaware that the Last Supper and early breaking of the bread (the mass) in the Patristic Era followed an ancient structure still followed in the Novus Ordo (new order in the vernacular).  Nor does he appear aware the Latin mass didn't come into being for a few centuries and later went missing for half a millennia.  

But, the worst of his long bitch list may have been this: "We fear speaking truth, because now, unfortunately, truth is in the minority. Congress just passed a bill where stating something as basic as the biblical teaching of who (the Jews) killed Jesus could land you in jail."  He's erroneously talking about the Antisemitism Awareness Act that has not passed the Senate, not law, and contains no criminality, and even worse his inference if directly contrary to Church teachings.  This was right wing talk radio grifter level tripe and the opposite of his appeal to truth. 

As mentioned, I'm leaving much out especially the stuff that got broad coverage. In lieu of omissions, I'll link a critical opinion piece from the National Catholic Register which hits of some of those omissions.

https://www.ncronline.org/opinion/guest-voices/stay-your-lane-says-kc-football-player-far-outside-his-lane

Harrison Butker is asshole.  

Again, Butker, like all tradcaths, is a sedevacantist who rejects and ignores the basic teachings of the Church. 

He should just be a Protestant. Or Eastern Orthodox if he really wants to get wild with it. 

[Nevada Convert]

On 5/22/2024 at 9:15 PM, Posturedoc said:

Contard meme sighting! They are everywhere he posts and is rebutted.

I know you like to give posters a shot to get into deeper discussions where there might be some nuance and give and take, but that isn’t something he’s really capable of doing. He knows all always. You won’t change that by trying to engage him. Better to just point out what a dullard he is (you do that regularly enough but still try and engage him as if he might post something truly thoughtful rather than his top-of-consciousness word jumbles) and laugh at all the projection littering his attempts to tell you what kind of poster and person you are. As I wrote earlier, this has been him since day one. He hasn’t changed in a couple decades and probably isn’t capable of it. 

Translation:

“I can’t tell you how many ways Convert has been my Boogeyman for decades, and I see he’s becoming a Boogeyman for you too! I thought I’d reach out and let you know that I can relate to what you’re going through, bro! I feel a special bond with you because we’re in this together, and we will survive this. Stay strong!”

[Nevada Convert]

On 5/22/2024 at 9:28 PM, youngredbullfan said:

Again, Butker, like all tradcaths, is a sedevacantist who rejects and ignores the basic teachings of the Church. 

He should just be a Protestant. Or Eastern Orthodox if he really wants to get wild with it. 

You don’t know what the teaching of the church are, you dense Jack Catholic.

[youngredbullfan]

On 5/23/2024 at 12:35 AM, Nevada Convert said:

You don’t know what the teaching of the church are, you dense Jack Catholic.

I do, actually. Are you Catholic?

[Nevada Convert]

On 5/22/2024 at 9:38 PM, youngredbullfan said:

I do, actually. Are you Catholic?

I don’t need to be Catholic to know what the teachings are. I certainly know you don’t believe in a lot of them, that’s for sure. You’re just another left wing hack trying to make the Catholic Church work for you. 

[tailingpermit]

On 5/23/2024 at 12:38 AM, youngredbullfan said:

I do, actually. Are you Catholic?

Good Lord (pun intended), I’d very much enjoy getting sauced with you and going over a wide spectrum of topics. I remember going back and forth with you on the history of Chicago drill music. What a fun teacher you must be!

[grandjean87]

On 5/22/2024 at 10:39 PM, Nevada Convert said:

I don’t need to be Catholic to know what the teachings are. I certainly know you don’t believe in a lot of them, that’s for sure. You’re just another left wing hack trying to make the Catholic Church work for you. 

Name one thing Butker referenced at the dogma or doctrinal level.

I can explain what this means, but that's not really yer concern.  Bill Maher might guide you. lol

[youngredbullfan]

On 5/23/2024 at 12:39 AM, Nevada Convert said:

I don’t need to be Catholic to know what the teachings are. 

So, no. Okay. 

You seem to believe that some of the teaching of the Catholic Church on, say, gay marriage or perhaps abortion makes it impossible for "liberals" (however you define them) to be true Catholics. 

As a practicing Catholic, I've done extensive research on Church teachings. I don't know everything, of course. But what I do know is that Catholic social teaching has always been a key foundational element of Catholic theology since the early Church fathers. And, of course, it is directly based on the Gospels. 

So what is Catholic social teaching? Value of all human life. Solidarity with all of humanity. Preferential option for the poor (structuring society to attend to the needs of the poor and vulnerable first). Community that forsakes single-minded individualism. 

All of these values are fundamental to what it means to be Catholic. Edicts on personal sexual behavioral mores, while important to many hyper-politicized American Catholics, are in reality totally inconsequential to the larger pillars of faith we share. 

If we define being "conservative" as merely being against gay marriage and abortion, then fine. Liberals and Conservatives alike can seek to value all human life. Although both fail in various respects. Liberals and Conservatives alike can feel solidarity with all of humanity in a general sense, though Conservatives often pick and choose. Liberals and Conservatives alike  can exercise and pursue a society built on the preferential option for the poor. Liberals and Conservatives alike can pursue community. And, of course, both Liberals and Conservatives can believe in the Paschal Mystery and the other important basic Christian beliefs.

I do hope you understand what I'm saying here. The charged political issues that Americans are singularly obsessed with have little true relation to what it means to be Catholic. My criticisms of tradcaths, who, by the way, are not the same as traditional conservative Catholics and instead are a recent sect- are primarily based on the fact that they hate the primary pillars of Catholic social teaching and actively reject other important things, like the Church hierarchy.  

[happycamper]

On 5/23/2024 at 12:12 AM, Nevada Convert said:

Dude, although I’m not anywhere near an expert on the Catholic Church, I know the basics, and I certainly understand the Hierarchy of Truths. Vatican II was in the 60’s, so there might be a Vatican III later this century, and that’s your only hope for any kind of significant change in church teachings. It’s pretty funny how you’re hanging your left wing hopes on that. A 3rd Vatican council would be enormously expensive, and Pope Francis has said there’s no need for one, anyway. 

You crack me up. You really think you’re soooo smart. They meet about once a century, and you act like it’s some evolving and fluid thing. Face it, you’re just a Jack Catholic just like Nancy, Chuck and Dick, and there’s nothing you can do about it other than re-study the church catechism and get more conservative. The Catholic Church is way too conservative for me, and I don’t like the Pope concept, anyway. Ain’t for me, at least. 

Convert

It was called Vatican 2 because it was the second council at the Vatican

It's unlikely the next council would be there as well.  It would just be named as whatever city it's in. Unless I guess they pick Nicea or Worms or another place it's been before.  Worms 2 would be a pretty funny council name

[Nevada Convert]

On 5/23/2024 at 4:11 AM, happycamper said:

Convert

It was called Vatican 2 because it was the second council at the Vatican

It's unlikely the next council would be there as well.  It would just be named as whatever city it's in. Unless I guess they pick Nicea or Worms or another place it's been before.  Worms 2 would be a pretty funny council name

I know. There was Vatican I which started in the 1860’s, the last one was Vatican II in the 1960’s, so a lot of people refer to the next one as “Vatican III” hypothetically. 

https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2023-08/pope-the-church-is-not-ready-yet-for-a-third-vatican-council.html

[grandjean87]

On 5/22/2024 at 11:01 PM, youngredbullfan said:

So, no. Okay. 

You seem to believe that some of the teaching of the Catholic Church on, say, gay marriage or perhaps abortion makes it impossible for "liberals" (however you define them) to be true Catholics. 

As a practicing Catholic, I've done extensive research on Church teachings. I don't know everything, of course. But what I do know is that Catholic social teaching has always been a key foundational element of Catholic theology since the early Church fathers. And, of course, it is directly based on the Gospels. 

So what is Catholic social teaching? Value of all human life. Solidarity with all of humanity. Preferential option for the poor (structuring society to attend to the needs of the poor and vulnerable first). Community that forsakes single-minded individualism. 

All of these values are fundamental to what it means to be Catholic. Edicts on personal sexual behavioral mores, while important to many hyper-politicized American Catholics, are in reality totally inconsequential to the larger pillars of faith we share. 

If we define being "conservative" as merely being against gay marriage and abortion, then fine. Liberals and Conservatives alike can seek to value all human life. Although both fail in various respects. Liberals and Conservatives alike can feel solidarity with all of humanity in a general sense, though Conservatives often pick and choose. Liberals and Conservatives alike  can exercise and pursue a society built on the preferential option for the poor. Liberals and Conservatives alike can pursue community. And, of course, both Liberals and Conservatives can believe in the Paschal Mystery and the other important basic Christian beliefs.

I do hope you understand what I'm saying here. The charged political issues that Americans are singularly obsessed with have little true relation to what it means to be Catholic. My criticisms of tradcaths, who, by the way, are not the same as traditional conservative Catholics and instead are a recent sect- are primarily based on the fact that they hate the primary pillars of Catholic social teaching and actively reject other important things, like the Church hierarchy.  

Fun might not be the best term, but occasionally it's okay to exchange with this board's poster child for oppositional defiance disorder.  That occasion is over now for me.  

Seeing everything in terms of left-right doesn't just have its limits, it's absurd when applied to some realms.  It's lazy thought, but when the objective is defiance rather than real dialogue, it's an easy schtick to lean on.  That's Convert in a nutshell.  

I don't have any issue with Catholics of any strand as long as they do not promote division and disunity. All strands, sadly, can do that at times.  As the Benedictine Sisters themselves pointed out, Butker's speech did just that in this situation. He promoted disunity in his ego-driven sweeping criticisms of the clergy, church, and others.  His black-and white, narrow views the same.  His firm presentation of his truth fell especially flat where he made erroneous statements.  It's never a good look when strong opinions are in conflict with truth.  

[Spaztecs]

On 5/22/2024 at 7:05 PM, tailingpermit said:

This is getting out of control!!!!!

 

RW Cancel Culture at it's finest.

You're not allowed to criticize us. And, if you do we will cancel you.