OT: The Cycling Thread

[thelawlorfaithful]

[thelawlorfaithful]

On 4/8/2024 at 9:20 AM, misplacedcowboy said:

Too bad we couldn't see how long Jorgensen would have been able to hang on... do you know why we has pulled from their lineup?

Jorgenson, while impressive on the cobbles, is at his core a climber. Flanders has hills that give his light weight an advantage. Paris-Roubaix is a different beast. To use a basketball term, it’s all playing in the paint. That doesn’t suit Matteo. He was never going to Roubaix.

Visma has to reconfigure their goals for the year. Jorgenson is headed to Liege, and with Wout and Jonas broken to pieces he may very well be the leader. And then he will train for France. I don’t think Jonas will be ready by July. He may be what Sepp Kuss has been to Jonas. Or he might get some time through fate and luck and have a shot at the podium. Visma’s in trouble. But Paris-Roubaix is not a race he can win.

[Spaztecs]

On 4/8/2024 at 10:08 AM, thelawlorfaithful said:

We’re Americans. We’re not wrong, they’re wrong. It’s only through our own grace that we tolerate the metric system.

It's obvious that Libya, Myanmar, and the US are using the Lord's system of measure. All those metric Nations are mired in the handiwork of the Devil.

[Spaztecs]

On 4/8/2024 at 10:40 AM, thelawlorfaithful said:

 

I've got to admit, between the Big 4 on the GC side, plus MVP and WvA dominating the Classics, the question of doping has entered my mind more than once. It's not that their winning, it's that they are winning in dominating fashion.

Those six riders are absolutely head and shoulders above the rest of us mere mortals.

[thelawlorfaithful]

On 4/8/2024 at 4:23 PM, Spaztecs said:

 

I've got to admit, between the Big 4 on the GC side, plus MVP and WvA dominating the Classics, the question of doping has entered my mind more than once. It's not that their winning, it's that they are winning in dominating fashion.

Those six riders are absolutely head and shoulders above the rest of us mere mortals.

Everyone is doping, make no mistake. Omertà is alive and well. If you’re going to be interested in professional road racing you’re going to be watching liars and cheaters. Any look into history will reveal that’s always been the case. Hell the Tour had a race guide in the 30’s saying they will provide food and lodging, but the riders must provide their own drugs. We just don’t know what this generation and the previous generation is taking. It’s a little insulting but that’s part of the deal. “Oh, Team Sky dominates the biggest race every year but they all have asthma and need inhalers?” Gimme a break.

I do think those 6 are uniquely talented athletes. They’re not doing anything that anyone within that culture winks at. Every one of them but Roglic has been enmeshed in it since birth. They’re taking drugs. But everyone is taking drugs if they can afford it. 

[Spaztecs]

On 4/8/2024 at 5:39 PM, thelawlorfaithful said:

Everyone is doping, make no mistake. Omertà is alive and well. If you’re going to be interested in professional road racing you’re going to be watching liars and cheaters. Any look into history will reveal that’s always been the case. Hell the Tour had a race guide in the 30’s saying they will provide food and lodging, but the riders must provide their own drugs. We just don’t know what this generation and the previous generation is taking. It’s a little insulting but that’s part of the deal. “Oh, Team Sky dominates the biggest race every year but they all have asthma and need inhalers?” Gimme a break.

I do think those 6 are uniquely talented athletes. They’re not doing anything that anyone within that culture winks at. Every one of them but Roglic has been enmeshed in it since birth. They’re taking drugs. But everyone is taking drugs if they can afford it. 

 

I don't look at it as liars and cheaters so much as athletes trying to survive, recover, and be strong the next day.  I have read about Christophe Bassons and other riders who didn't dope. Their experiences and attempts to ride clean. The pressure to do so is economically and professionally intense. Many dope just to get another contract. Many dope to get that competitive advantage . Look at the parcourses the Organizers throw at riders. They are more survival gauntlets than Races.

Personally, I would mandate stages under 180 kilometers in length. No more than four Cat2 or higher climbs per stage. No more than three Cat 1 or HC climbs per stage. With only two of those being HC climbs   No more than two consecutive big climbing days. No medium mountain or high mountain stages after a rest day. Shorter stages mean more action. Longer stages are about attrition. Knowing how to create a parcourse that allows for more riders to win a stage helps as well. The harder the course, the fewer riders that can win on a given day. Smaller Races have less climbing and they are still entertaining.

I believe these ideas can help reduce the doping in the Peloton.

 

That aside, are the Super Six that much better because they are doping ? Or, because at birth they were graced  by the Cycling Gods ?

 

 

 

 

 

[thelawlorfaithful]

On 4/9/2024 at 8:49 AM, Spaztecs said:

 

I don't look at it as liars and cheaters so much as athletes trying to survive, recover, and be strong the next day.  I have read about Christophe Bassons and other riders who didn't dope. Their experiences and attempts to ride clean. The pressure to do so is economically and professionally intense. Many dope just to get another contract. Many dope to get that competitive advantage . Look at the parcourses the Organizers throw at riders. They are more survival gauntlets than Races.

Personally, I would mandate stages under 180 kilometers in length. No more than four Cat2 or higher climbs per stage. No more than three Cat 1 or HC climbs per stage. With only two of those being HC climbs   No more than two consecutive big climbing days. No medium mountain or high mountain stages after a rest day. Shorter stages mean more action. Longer stages are about attrition. Knowing how to create a parcourse that allows for more riders to win a stage helps as well. The harder the course, the fewer riders that can win on a given day. Smaller Races have less climbing and they are still entertaining.

I believe these ideas can help reduce the doping in the Peloton.

 

That aside, are the Super Six that much better because they are doping ? Or, because at birth they were graced  by the Cycling Gods ?

 

 

 

 

 

They’re not better because of doping. Everyone they’re racing against is playing the same game. They know it, the doctors know it, the director sportiefs know it, the owners know it, the sponsors know it. It’s not a secret in that little world.

Those 6 are uniquely talented athletes. They found the sport where their athletic abilities can shine the brightest. The constitution of their personal character, as well as their physical assets and limitations, are what make them interesting. In the end cycling is a sport about storytelling when it’s good. When it’s bad it’s pedal pedal pedal turn. We are blessed with good characters in a great drama.

And make no mistake, the UCI and the Olympics don’t give a +++++ about what they’re up to. The little bubble of cycling culture knows damn well what’s going on. They would have us believe it all stopped in 2012 when US investigators nailed Lance’s generation. Before that it was 2006 when operation Puerto nailed half the peloton once the big money maker, Armstrong, got away with it. Before that the Festina affair in 1998 had everybody saying they’d cleaned up the sport. The cracks in the Team Sky narrative of special pillows and Nutella giving them “marginal gains” are only recently starting to show.

The sad truth is none of your recommendations would change a thing. These guys don’t take drugs because the race is too long or too hard. In fact if they are doping they’d prefer the races to be longer and more difficult. The stakes are low. Most riders are making less money probably than the median MWboard member. Almost none of them leave the sport and have any sort of experience or education with which to fall back on. If your only future is in cycling, you protect cycling. That’s Omertà.

The only way to get doping out is to have a Kennesaw Mountain Landis type figure that rules with an iron fist, as he did getting gambling out of baseball. That’s impossible in cycling. There are too many countries with differing laws and too many corporations that own races to allow that sort of dictatorship.

”We race on dynamite” is the rule since the sport’s inception. You could make the sport more fun with your ideas, but that hard truth is never going away.

[thelawlorfaithful]

On 4/4/2024 at 9:37 AM, thelawlorfaithful said:

The best rider in the world being carried off on a stretcher on oxygen.

He’s a good person. And he is awake.

 

Damn, Jonas also punctured his lung. He won’t be ready by July.

[Spaztecs]

On 4/10/2024 at 10:32 AM, thelawlorfaithful said:

Damn, Jonas also punctured his lung. He won’t be ready by July.

 

Also a pulmonary contusion. He may not make it back this year.

Jay Vine and Stef cras also sustained serious and potentially career threatening injuries. 

Here is an update from GCN on Saturday.

 

https://www.globalcyclingnetwork.com/racing/news/full-medical-bulletin-from-the-horror-crash-at-itzulia-basque-country

[thelawlorfaithful]

The Ardennes have been a mess.

Thomas Pidcock, the great British hope, took home the win in Amstel Gold. MVdP lagged behind in 22nd place. An ominous omen for the showdown with Tadej. Amstel is a relentlessly undulating classic through the Netherlands. There is almost never a moment of flat. It’s all small hills on tiny roads.

Today Flèche Wallonne was a shit show. Wind, rain, and snow forced all but 44 of the 174 riders to abandon including all of the favorites. Wallone is filled with steeper hills and defined by its final steep climb the Mur (wall) de Huy. Young Australian Stephen Williams survived the brutal conditions and made the winning move. There’s a pretty awful video of Mattieas Sklemose being carried off his bike by a soigner shivering and immobile. One has to wonder about the old timers and what they would have to go through.

Liege-Bastogne-Liege on Sunday. Liege is a combination of the first two Ardennes classics. Small roads, small mountains. Tadej hasn’t called his shot like he did at Strade Bianchi last month but he’s the odds on favorite by far. Pidcock may be able to keep up. MVdP might have went too deep early in the season. We’ll see what the weather holds in store.

[Spaztecs]

I thought the racing was good despite the weather and cold. It seemed every lap riders were withdrawing. Only 44 riders finished. The last rider finished over seven minutes behind.

Despite the weather, there were massive crowds on the Mur de Huy.

Hopefully, there will be some better weather for the L-B-L.

 

 

I also caught Stage 3 of the Tour of the Alps. Juan Pe Lopez got his first ever win at age 26 in impressive fashion. He and a Bardiani Rider went clear on the second climb and kept increasing their advantage.

The climbs were slightly longer than the Fleche climbs but much steeper ascents and the descents were dicey. There were more than a few wheels that slipped on the descent, fortunately, no one went down.

Today is the Queen Stage of the Alps. It should be good.

Btw, since last year's Giro, Gerraint Thomas has sadly become a highly paid domestique. There's not much left in the tank for him.

[Spaztecs]

I finally got a chance to watch the Fleche Finale.

On the steepest section of the Mur, he accelerated away from the bunch like he was shot out of a cannon. Over the last 350 meters everybody else looked as if they were riding through tar.

Just an amazing acceleration on a ~12% slope.

 

The guy that finished second did close some ground on him over the last 75 meters, but look how far back everyone else is.

 

[thelawlorfaithful]

On 4/18/2024 at 8:44 AM, Spaztecs said:

I thought the racing was good despite the weather and cold. It seemed every lap riders were withdrawing. Only 44 riders finished. The last rider finished over seven minutes behind.

Despite the weather, there were massive crowds on the Mur de Huy.

Hopefully, there will be some better weather for the L-B-L.

 

 

I also caught Stage 3 of the Tour of the Alps. Juan Pe Lopez got his first ever win at age 26 in impressive fashion. He and a Bardiani Rider went clear on the second climb and kept increasing their advantage.

The climbs were slightly longer than the Fleche climbs but much steeper ascents and the descents were dicey. There were more than a few wheels that slipped on the descent, fortunately, no one went down.

Today is the Queen Stage of the Alps. It should be good.

Btw, since last year's Giro, Gerraint Thomas has sadly become a highly paid domestique. There's not much left in the tank for him.

G is old for a GC rider. He’s been old for awhile. But the tour of the Alps is just training for him. He’s not supposed to be his best yet.

[Spaztecs]

On 4/18/2024 at 12:12 PM, thelawlorfaithful said:

G is old for a GC rider. He’s been old for awhile. But the tour of the Alps is just training for him. He’s not supposed to be his best yet.

He's looked very pedestrian in Catalunya and last years Vuelta.

Granted, he did get out and spend some time in the wind, but he doesn't look like a contender.

[thelawlorfaithful]

On 4/18/2024 at 1:50 PM, Spaztecs said:

He's looked very pedestrian in Catalunya and last years Vuelta.

Granted, he did get out and spend some time in the wind, but he doesn't look like a contender.

We’ll see. He’s got old muscles, joints and bones. Maybe he knows not to push his body too far and aims to peak for one race. He came within a whisker of winning the Giro last year with pedestrian results in the spring. I don’t think he’ll beat Tadej but the podium is in play unless he really has gone off the cliff.

[thelawlorfaithful]

Merckx, de Vlaminck, Girodengo, Coppi, Kelly, Van Looy, Boonen, Cancellara, Bartali.

Thats it. That’s the list of guys who have won more monuments than Tadej Pogacar after he dominated Liege-Bastogne-Liege today. If you don’t recognize some of those names just know that makes him a first ballot hall of famer (if cycling had one) based on that alone. Then add in the two Tour’s and the fact that he is 25 years old. 

[Spaztecs]

On 4/21/2024 at 6:16 PM, thelawlorfaithful said:

Merckx, de Vlaminck, Girodengo, Coppi, Kelly, Van Looy, Boonen, Cancellara, Bartali.

Thats it. That’s the list of guys who have won more monuments than Tadej Pogacar after he dominated Liege-Bastogne-Liege today. If you don’t recognize some of those names just know that makes him a first ballot hall of famer (if cycling had one) based on that alone. Then add in the two Tour’s and the fact that he is 25 years old. 

 Who's this Merckc character you speak ?

[thelawlorfaithful]

Ineos finally won something. Maybe Carlos Rodriguez will be their roll of the dice in July. The Tour de Romandie is a weird race which nobody targets as it sits between the last Spring classic and the Giro.

[thelawlorfaithful]

Giro d’Italia

The Race

The Tour of Italy is the second biggest race in the world. If the Tour is the Beatles and Rolling Stones combined, the Giro is something like Bob Dylan. Not as popular worldwide, but cared about with a passion that only the cobbled classics in Belgium can match. It resembles the Tour in every way but coverage. Beautiful landscapes, unbelievable historical sites, history everywhere, and the fans, the Tifosi, are out of their minds about the race.

Whereas the Tour is a more worldwide event, the Giro is much more a hometown affair. Millions will line the roads, staying for days in campers on the big climbs. The Tifosi are only one upped by the Belgians in their passion for the sport.

The race’s history is almost as long and storied as the Tour’s. It has seen epic battles between legends of the sport. Controversy as the best of their time and of all time have been thrown out for cheating. It has seen riots that resulted in gunfire and the riders hiding for cover over a border dispute. Its location on the calendar and the massive mountains means snow is often a factor. It’s seen maybe the greatest climber ever high on amphetamines tackle multiple mountain passes in a blizzard to wipe out a huge disadvantage on way to victory. It’s seen an American battle a snowstorm to take the only victory ever for the US in 1988. And it 1946 it saw two legends begin to put their destroyed and divided and conquered country back together in what would become known as the joust in the rubble.

If cycling were the NCAA tournament the Tour is the equivalent of the National Championship. But only the Giro counts as the final four. The terrain is more difficult. The field is almost as talented. The racing more peculiar. The roads are worse. The mountains are bigger and steeper. A stage win can make a career. An overall win can cement a legacy.

unfortunately…

[thelawlorfaithful]

The Route

Is entirely meh this year. 70 km of time trialing. 3 decisive mountain stages. One of the most iconic mountains in all of cycling thrown at the start of the stage and followed by 100km of flat. None of the other ridiculous climbs included.

Barring an accident this thing is a wrap for the overall.