Office Conversion Policy

[sactowndog]

This seems like a pretty good idea and policy….

The Biden administration is encouraging the conversion of empty office space to affordable housing (from @AP)

https://apnews.com/article/e1ff0306f4ea1ae3913d7bf6cb3eaef1
 

[renoskier]

On 10/28/2023 at 12:33 PM, sactowndog said:

This seems like a pretty good idea and policy….

The Biden administration is encouraging the conversion of empty office space to affordable housing (from @AP)

https://apnews.com/article/e1ff0306f4ea1ae3913d7bf6cb3eaef1
 

It's much easier said than done. Many cities have local program to encourage such re-development but companies often find that structural issues, primarily heating/cooling and plumbing, make such conversions impractical.

I know from first hand experience that even converting obsolete hotels to condo/apartment space can be so difficult that it makes a project unprofitable. 

[sactowndog]

On 10/28/2023 at 12:42 PM, renoskier said:

It's much easier said than done. Many cities have local program to encourage such re-development but companies often find that structural issues, primarily heating/cooling and plumbing, make such conversions impractical.

I know from first hand experience that even converting obsolete hotels to condo/apartment space can be so difficult that it makes a project unprofitable. 

Well why the incentives may change the P&L picture for the reasons you state.  We shall see.  

[Nevada Convert]

On 10/28/2023 at 12:33 PM, sactowndog said:

This seems like a pretty good idea and policy….

The Biden administration is encouraging the conversion of empty office space to affordable housing (from @AP)

https://apnews.com/article/e1ff0306f4ea1ae3913d7bf6cb3eaef1
 

I’m against any taxpayer money going into this. The big city model is from the dark ages where everyone had to physically be in the same area to meet and do business. It’s a hard change to make for some, but it needs to be done. People aren’t designed to live so closely around others. Let the market solve this problem. 

Big cities are usually run by Democrats that love thick rulebooks of codes and permitting that are costly in time and money. It also takes a Herculean effort to change any of them. So I can’t see how this could possibly ever happen without taxpayer help, and that shouldn’t happen. We need to start getting our populations better protected away from the oceans, anyway. 

[THEUniversityofNevada]

It’s a very tricky process. We specialize in converting old buildings into climate controlled self-storage. No plumbing, much simpler fire codes.

Office to residential won’t be possible/profitable without some government subsidies.

[Spaztecs]

On 10/29/2023 at 3:47 AM, Nevada Convert said:

I’m against any taxpayer money going into this. The big city model is from the dark ages where everyone had to physically be in the same area to meet and do business. It’s a hard change to make for some, but it needs to be done. People aren’t designed to live so closely around others. Let the market solve this problem. 

Big cities are usually run by Democrats that love thick rulebooks of codes and permitting that are costly in time and money. It also takes a Herculean effort to change any of them. So I can’t see how this could possibly ever happen without taxpayer help, and that shouldn’t happen. We need to start getting our populations better protected away from the oceans, anyway. 

Those answers are exactly why places like Hell Lay, Phoenix, and Dallas are sprawling metros with gridlocked traffic.

 

I like the idea of channeling development funds to smaller cities/towns and encouraging industries to set up business there. Smaller towns to live/work in draw high quality employees away from the overcrowded cities and bring economic development to poorer areas.

[sactowndog]

On 10/29/2023 at 2:47 AM, Nevada Convert said:

I’m against any taxpayer money going into this. The big city model is from the dark ages where everyone had to physically be in the same area to meet and do business. It’s a hard change to make for some, but it needs to be done. People aren’t designed to live so closely around others. Let the market solve this problem. 

Big cities are usually run by Democrats that love thick rulebooks of codes and permitting that are costly in time and money. It also takes a Herculean effort to change any of them. So I can’t see how this could possibly ever happen without taxpayer help, and that shouldn’t happen. We need to start getting our populations better protected away from the oceans, anyway. 

It’s already happening without taxpayer help.  This just keeps high interest rates from killing it on the vine.  I hate to tell you but CEO’s are forcing people back into the office.  This provides affordable housing in areas that drastically need it.  

[sactowndog]

On 10/29/2023 at 8:22 AM, THEUniversityofNevada said:

It’s a very tricky process. We specialize in converting old buildings into climate controlled self-storage. No plumbing, much simpler fire codes.

Office to residential won’t be possible/profitable without some government subsidies.

Someone forgot to tell these people that fact ……

https://goldentriangledc.com/2022/12/15/major-residential-conversion-breaks-ground-in-golden-triangle/#:~:text=Elle trailblazes transformation for Washington,conversion in the Golden Triangle.
 

[renoskier]

On 10/29/2023 at 2:47 AM, Nevada Convert said:

 ...People aren’t designed to live so closely around others. Let the market solve this problem. 

 

actually, the history of human migration says otherwise

[Nevada Convert]

On 10/29/2023 at 10:58 AM, renoskier said:

actually, the history of human migration says otherwise

LOL, why would you say something so silly? We’re talking about modern urban crowding with high rises everywhere, crowded buses, subways, trains, streets, bathrooms, restaurants, airports, supermarkets, etc. 

[Billings]

On 10/29/2023 at 8:22 AM, THEUniversityofNevada said:

It’s a very tricky process. We specialize in converting old buildings into climate controlled self-storage. No plumbing, much simpler fire codes.

Office to residential won’t be possible/profitable without some government subsidies.

Yep.  Portland looked into this.  No way private industry will pay for it.  Just no money in it and very complex projects as well.

[Billings]

On 10/29/2023 at 10:10 AM, sactowndog said:

Someone forgot to tell these people that fact ……

https://goldentriangledc.com/2022/12/15/major-residential-conversion-breaks-ground-in-golden-triangle/#:~:text=Elle trailblazes transformation for Washington,conversion in the Golden Triangle.
 

Certainly not an affordable housing project which was the point.

[bornontheblue]

On 10/29/2023 at 11:07 AM, sactowndog said:

It’s already happening without taxpayer help.  This just keeps high interest rates from killing it on the vine.  I hate to tell you but CEO’s are forcing people back into the office.  This provides affordable housing in areas that drastically need it.  

The problem is that a lot of office buildings are wide open areas built for cubicles. If you were to turn them into apartments the interior apartments would have no windows. It becomes impractical 

[sactowndog]

On 10/29/2023 at 3:05 PM, bornontheblue said:

The problem is that a lot of office buildings are wide open areas built for cubicles. If you were to turn them into apartments the interior apartments would have no windows. It becomes impractical 

I think they Probably section them into quarters or 8ths with each having window access and the corners having significant access 

[sactowndog]

On 10/29/2023 at 11:51 AM, Billings said:

Yep.  Portland looked into this.  No way private industry will pay for it.  Just no money in it and very complex projects as well.

Well why subsidies make sense 

[SAMO]

On 10/29/2023 at 4:54 PM, sactowndog said:

I think they Probably section them into quarters or 8ths with each having window access and the corners having significant access 

Ive seen whole/half floor lofts in more than one conversion too. But yeah quarters and 8ths is probably more realistic if they want to recoup costs through multiple tenancies though…lol

[bsu_alum9]

On 10/28/2023 at 12:33 PM, sactowndog said:

This seems like a pretty good idea and policy….

The Biden administration is encouraging the conversion of empty office space to affordable housing (from @AP)

https://apnews.com/article/e1ff0306f4ea1ae3913d7bf6cb3eaef1
 

As an engineer I hate this. Makes more sense to tear down and rebuild.

[sactowndog]

On 10/29/2023 at 10:29 PM, bsu_alum9 said:

As an engineer I hate this. Makes more sense to tear down and rebuild.

Curious why you think so. 

[bsu_alum9]

On 10/29/2023 at 10:42 PM, sactowndog said:

Curious why you think so. 

Plumbing has to be gutted and redone in it’s entirety. Very challenging especially with structural constraints. Most commercial buildings only have a few toilets per floor. Apartments add showers/washers/sinks, huge hot water and cold water demand.

HVAC gutted and redone. Plus many more challenges with dryer/kitchen hood exhaust at every apartment. 

Windows/facade have to be replaced to meet building codes.

Electrical requirements require it all to be ripped out and redone. 

Fire protection also needs complete gut and replacement.

And @happycamper types probably have no faith that I can carve up his slabs and add more weight to the roof. (I guess Catholic school doesn’t put “that”much faith in Jesus)

So you save structure (maybe?) which does include a bunch of concrete (high carbon footprint to replace) and maybe the elevators and stairs…but literally everything else needs ripped out and replaced. 

And commercial real estate is so so much more valuable than residential nobody would do this. Building shitty 4-story residential in the ‘burbs is way more cost effective for a developer.

Not even going to get into parking cars but that’s a whole separate issue.

[Billings]

On 10/29/2023 at 11:29 PM, bsu_alum9 said:

Plumbing has to be gutted and redone in it’s entirety. Very challenging especially with structural constraints. Most commercial buildings only have a few toilets per floor. Apartments add showers/washers/sinks, huge hot water and cold water demand.

HVAC gutted and redone. Plus many more challenges with dryer/kitchen hood exhaust at every apartment. 

Windows/facade have to be replaced to meet building codes.

Electrical requirements require it all to be ripped out and redone. 

Fire protection also needs complete gut and replacement.

And @happycamper types probably have no faith that I can carve up his slabs and add more weight to the roof. (I guess Catholic school doesn’t put “that”much faith in Jesus)

So you save structure (maybe?) which does include a bunch of concrete (high carbon footprint to replace) and maybe the elevators and stairs…but literally everything else needs ripped out and replaced. 

And commercial real estate is so so much more valuable than residential nobody would do this. Building shitty 4-story residential in the ‘burbs is way more cost effective for a developer.

Not even going to get into parking cars but that’s a whole separate issue.

Damm building codes anyway