Hamas - Israel - Iran - Middle East - WW III

[toonkee]

On 5/6/2024 at 10:40 AM, SalinasSpartan said:

And to the bystanders, the point of all this is that the fact that there even COULD be a “Leahy” violation is a significant differentiation between the potential withholding of funds to Israel from Trump threatening to withhold funds from Ukraine re: whether the former is an “impeachable offense”. Anybody claiming there is “No DiFfErEnCe” between the two is either just dishonest as hell, doesn’t know what they are talking about, or both.

And of course that’s not even bringing up how impeachment is, per SCOTUS, a POLITICAL process. It’s not a criminal case or a lawsuit where elements need to be proven and there is a burden of proof and so on. Its not and never has been a black and white thing, no matter how much people pretend it is.

When Trump was impeached the argument was that no crime was committed. Now their argument is the president is immune from commiting crimes. Getting super weird out there.  

[thelawlorfaithful]

 

Start a war a war is what you get.

[TheSanDiegan]

On 5/6/2024 at 8:32 AM, thelawlorfaithful said:

Today is the 12th day since the bill was signed.

Uh oh Joe. Better formally notify Congress by the end of the day. Pitter patter let’s get at her.

Not that it matters to any of you. But doing the reading once in awhile is helpful.

First, that first highlighted segment speaks rather explicitly and specifically to the "provision" of arms "not previously justified to Congress" (or in a quantity 20% greater than the quantity "justified" to Congress). That would seem to not be entirely relevant to the President's authority to withhold aid.

Second, the notification to Congress to which you infer in your post - presumably referencing the second highlighted segment - is in regards to a waiver for the notification requirements under certain conditions (e.g., fulfilling notification requirements under that section would "pose a substantial risk to human health or welfare") and again (as with the rest of this section) is not really germane to the issue of a President's ability to withhold aid.

Third, yes, I did read parts of the act, including all of Section 116 as well as paragraphs of 503. And guess what? They too carry their own notification requirements to select committees/committee members in Congress. 

Lastly, isn't a bit presumptuous for us to pretend we know whether or not various agents of the presidency have notified various agents of Congress about these matters?

 

 

ETA: Please don't ask nor expect me to read any more of it tho. That was boring as f*ck and made reading contracts by comparison like looking at porn.

[TheSanDiegan]

On 5/6/2024 at 1:48 PM, thelawlorfaithful said:

 

Start a war a war is what you get.

I think Sherman's March is probably a closer comparison. Even then I don't think they indiscriminately targeted Confederate women and children. 

I'm all for Israel wiping Hamas off the face of the earth, but time and time again it has been shown that a political solution is as critical a component as a military solution when ending insurgencies. No idea tho if this also applies to intifadas. 

[youngredbullfan]

On 5/6/2024 at 9:09 PM, TheSanDiegan said:

I think Sherman's March is probably a closer comparison. Even then I don't think they indiscriminately targeted Confederate women and children. 

I'm all for Israel wiping Hamas off the face of the earth, but time and time again it has been shown that a political solution is as critical a component as a military solution when ending insurgencies. No idea tho if this also applies to intifadas. 

It's more like the US Army's fight against Sherman's namesake, Tecumseh 

Albeit with more war crimes

[thelawlorfaithful]

On 5/6/2024 at 5:43 PM, TheSanDiegan said:

First, that first highlighted segment speaks rather explicitly and specifically to the "provision" of arms "not previously justified to Congress" (or in a quantity 20% greater than the quantity "justified" to Congress). That would seem to not be entirely relevant to the President's authority to withhold aid.

Second, the notification to Congress to which you infer in your post - presumably referencing the second highlighted segment - is in regards to a waiver for the notification requirements under certain conditions (e.g., fulfilling notification requirements under that section would "pose a substantial risk to human health or welfare") and again (as with the rest of this section) is not really germane to the issue of a President's ability to withhold aid.

Third, yes, I did read parts of the act, including all of Section 116 as well as paragraphs of 503. And guess what? They too carry their own notification requirements to select committees/committee members in Congress. 

Lastly, isn't a bit presumptuous for us to pretend we know whether or not various agents of the presidency have notified various agents of Congress about these matters?

 

 

ETA: Please don't ask nor expect me to read any more of it tho. That was boring as f*ck and made reading contracts by comparison like looking at porn.

I won’t ask you to read it again but I think you’re misconstruing the clause in your first paragraph. The Executive is allowed to go above by at least 20% on his own accord. He is still supposed to do what a congress says. Withholding aid is implicit in every part of the law up to article 1.

Not that it matters because nobody cares. Congress could have an outright breach of the Constitution and nobody, particularly Republicans, would do shit. Even when Trump was impeached (the first time) the point was about how it might make it hard for a Democrat to get elected and not, you know, the law.

[grandjean87]

Amazing that mounds of text in 60+ year old oft amended federal law might have a few internal as well as more external conflicts. 

In early  2023 and then after the Gaza war began (early 2024) the Biden Admin. issued related memorandums on arms transfer policy.  They comport w/Article II.2 powers and sections of the most recently amended FAA of 1961 on 03.23.24 (and others too innumerable).  

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2024/02/08/national-security-memorandum-on-safeguards-and-accountability-with-respect-to-transferred-defense-articles-and-defense-services/

(NSM-20) The new policy requires the secretary of state to “obtain credible and reliable written assurances” from foreign governments that their militaries will use U.S. weapons “in accordance with international humanitarian law and, as applicable, other international law” prior to receiving any defense articles. 

"...in furtherance of supporting section 620I of the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 (22 U.S.C. 2378-1) and applicable international law..."

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2023/02/23/memorandum-on-united-states-conventional-arms-transfer-policy/

"Prevent arms transfers that risk facilitating or otherwise contributing to violations of human rights or international humanitarian law; Strengthen ally and partner capacity to respect their obligations under international law and reduce the risk of civilian harm, including through arms transfers,..."

Of course, a president can withhold military assistance consistent w/specific law and more broadly under Art. II Sec. 2 powers.   In this particular context, where the assistance is ostensibly forthcoming, it's a moot issue. 

 

[soupslam1]

Palestinians are like the playground weakling going up and punching the toughest kid in the school in the stomach, running and trying to hide. 

Then after getting the shit kicked out of him, continues to do it after a healing period. 

The only solutions are to get bigger and stronger, show respect and live with the dude even though you hate him, or stop doing it, none of which are happening. 

The US is like the tough kids friend who says one punch is enough, you don’t have to pummel him to near death. Israel is like I’m tired of this kid and this time I’m going to kill him, only to be replaced by another weakling who repeats the same thing. 

[818SUDSFan]

On 5/7/2024 at 9:30 AM, thelawlorfaithful said:

I won’t ask you to read it again but I think you’re misconstruing the clause in your first paragraph. The Executive is allowed to go above by at least 20% on his own accord. He is still supposed to do what a congress says. Withholding aid is implicit in every part of the law up to article 1.

Not that it matters because nobody cares. Congress could have an outright breach of the Constitution and nobody, particularly Republicans, would do shit. Even when Trump was impeached (the first time) the point was about how it might make it hard for a Democrat to get elected and not, you know, the law.

[grandjean87]

Sec. of Defense testified no final decision yet on the military assistance hold up. Might be longer than earlier reports.  BBC author's take this a.m. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68978322

[RSF]

On 5/8/2024 at 12:58 PM, grandjean87 said:

Sec. of Defense testified no final decision yet on the military assistance hold up. Might be longer than earlier reports.  BBC author's take this a.m. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68978322

Impeachment's not good enough for him...

 

[SharkTanked]

Notifying Congress???... We talkin bout notifying Congress?

I was most disappointed in the exchange regarding defining "unit."

[mysfit]

Hmmm

Bibi needs the far right to stay in power. Otherwise he's out and facing a criminal trial. He's as selfish as they come so he will move forward with what those 2 lunatics want which is to wipe out Rafah and complete the ethnic cleansing slash genocide.

The question is how much of a backbone does Biden have? 

[sactowndog]

On 5/6/2024 at 8:28 AM, SalinasSpartan said:

So how do the “Leahy Laws” factor in to your legal analysis on this issue? 

Doesn’t matter.  Biden and Blinken will do whatever Israel wants.  
 

 

[mysfit]

I wonder if Biden would have started holding up arms shipments to Israel if tge Ukrainian aide package was passed earlier.

[thelawlorfaithful]

What a crock of shit.

Hope those loser pro-Hamas voters are worth it Joe.

[grandjean87]

On 5/9/2024 at 1:33 AM, mysfit said:

I wonder if Biden would have started holding up arms shipments to Israel if tge Ukrainian aide package was passed earlier.

Good question.  Maybe. You'd have to align the events in Gaza and their effects here chronologically w/whatever earlier date the multinational aid package would have been passed. 

We aren't stopping all arms shipments to Israel just those 2k bombs and some others.  I didn't see any detailed descriptions of what's still going to Israel (and not).  Operations in Rafa continue.  
 

 

[sactowndog]

On 5/9/2024 at 8:13 AM, thelawlorfaithful said:

What a crock of shit.

Hope those loser pro-Hamas voters are worth it Joe.

Yeah “losers” that think shit like this crap is wrong unlike you …

A West Bank village feels helpless after Israeli settlers attack with fire and bullets

DUMA, West Bank (AP) — Charred homes and cars dotting this hilltop village surrounded by olive groves are a searing reminder ...

Read the full story

Sent from AP News. Download now on the App Storeor Google Play

 

[thelawlorfaithful]

On 5/9/2024 at 10:22 PM, sactowndog said:

Yeah “losers” that think shit like this crap is wrong unlike you …

 

A West Bank village feels helpless after Israeli settlers attack with fire and bullets

DUMA, West Bank (AP) — Charred homes and cars dotting this hilltop village surrounded by olive groves are a searing reminder ...

Read the full story

Sent from AP News. Download now on the App Storeor Google Play

 

Do you even read the articles? 9 Israelis and 15 Palestinians dead since October 7, multiple prosecutions for the crimes, and not a damn thing to do with withholding aid from our ally. Riots are bad. Prosecute rioters. Nobody was killed in the incident thankfully. 32 Americans were murdered on October 7th alone. There are still 5 American hostages and all you can do is try to change the subject to protect the terrorists.

[youngredbullfan]

Joe Biden delaying in actively aiding an ethnic cleansing has many panties in a bunch 

Don't worry he'll fold and more children will die