More Portland Stores Closing Due to Theft

[Slapdad]

On 9/28/2023 at 2:57 PM, SalinasSpartan said:

Because burying your head in the sand at the fact that police treat people differently based on race is incredibly stupid. 

Not considering the fact that it's possible that they're committing crimes disproportionately is also incredibly stupid.

[renoskier]

On 9/29/2023 at 1:05 PM, Slapdad said:

Not considering the fact that it's possible that they're committing crimes disproportionately is also incredibly stupid.

they are...but why is that?

[SharkTanked]

On 9/29/2023 at 1:03 PM, SalinasSpartan said:

I think one of the big impediments to change is the detachment of those with the means to fix the problems (state/fed) and those who feel the political heat (municipalities/counties). It creates a situation where those that face the heat from voters are the ones that can’t do much, and that is what pushes them to “do something”, lest they be branded as “doing nothing”. But the “something” is never going to fix the problem, as those tools don’t exist at the local level. 
 

Meanwhile state and federal lawmakers have the means to do something, but do not face the intense political heat that pushes lawmakers to really prioritize the issue. They can just say, “well crime is a local issue handled by local police” and bingo bango that’s it let’s get to a fundraiser. So instead of getting thoughtful solutions to really address the problems you get them just coming up with lazy “just cut a check” style approaches that might look good in a press release. Because at the end of the day, they know local crime isn’t going to be a true motivating issue for voters in THEIR races, so why spend a ton of time formulating solutions to problems that don’t impact their elections?

It is not illegal for a municipality to increase its minimum wage, provide job training, spin off some of the low skill maintenance and clean up work to low/no income citizens, provide mental health treatment, shelters... they can do, legally, anything the Feds can do.

The problem is resources. The Fed gobbles up so much to redistribute to other states, the State is less bureaucratic than the Feds, but more wasteful than the locals, plus you get blocks of powerful rural banding together to get money under the argument that the urban are rich enough to pay for themselves...

It all comes down to citizens demanding that needs be met and be willing to pay for it.

[SalinasSpartan]

On 9/29/2023 at 1:05 PM, Slapdad said:

Not considering the fact that it's possible that they're committing crimes disproportionately is also incredibly stupid.

Nobody phuckin said to not consider that. If a distinct group of people are committing a crime at a higher rate I’d want to investigate to see if there is a root cause as to why this is the case. As opposed to just drawing a conclusion that the distinct group is just inherently “more criminal” or are “bad people”. 

[SalinasSpartan]

On 9/29/2023 at 2:40 PM, SharkTanked said:

It is not illegal for a municipality to increase its minimum wage, provide job training, spin off some of the low skill maintenance and clean up work to low/no income citizens, provide mental health treatment, shelters... they can do, legally, anything the Feds can do.

The problem is resources. The Fed gobbles up so much to redistribute to other states, the State is less bureaucratic than the Feds, but more wasteful than the locals, plus you get blocks of powerful rural banding together to get money under the argument that the urban are rich enough to pay for themselves...

It all comes down to citizens demanding that needs be met and be willing to pay for it.

Yea but when when a municipality raises minimum wages they can’t mandate that only residents of the municipality get those jobs.

And not to be a pedant, but I believe CA municipalities have plenary powers, so they can legally do more than the fed. But the issue isn’t what they CAN do, it’s what they can AFFORD to do.
 

My broader point is that municipalities and counties have very limited ways to raise revenue, so the result is usually budgets that are pretty static and don’t leave much money for discretionary spending to fund bold solutions to fix big societal problems. 

[toonkee]

 

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 9/29/2023 at 5:00 PM, toonkee said:

 

 

[Dogs4Me]

On 9/29/2023 at 8:06 AM, SalinasSpartan said:

Yea this is all true, but this take also operates under the assumption that everybody involved is going to want to address the disparity once confronted with it. That is not the case. Just in this thread @Dogs4Me has looked at that disparity and said he does not care, his solution is “don’t commit crimes”. And he is far from the only person that looks at the problem like this.
 

A sizable chunk of the electorate thinks the problem being discussed is not one that elected officials should try to address, and the solution is just more cops, more jails, more prisons, longer sentences, and eventually “those people” will get the message. And if they don’t, phuck em. 

Just catching up today as I was OOC for the last day or so, but to respond to your point…yes, phuck’em if they’re not willing to abide by the laws that are in place to protect the innocent and punish the guilty. No one is holding a gun to the heads of criminals and telling them that they have to commit crime, it’s a choice. Why do we keep inventing excuses for criminals and their behavior?

[Dogs4Me]

On 9/29/2023 at 4:20 AM, happycamper said:

Ok,  so what's your explanation of the data?

K, but again,  if you don't know what the statistics are,  how do you know whether the arrests are just based on crime?

This is a weird ass attitude 

The data? You mean the data that’s intended to muddy the waters instead of provide a solution? The data that provides excuses that require others to fix for people that are assumed to be incapable of doing the right thing?

[Dogs4Me]

On 9/29/2023 at 4:21 AM, happycamper said:

Maybe if we knew that men committed 5x as many crimes but were arrested at 20x the rate as women that our resource distribution was was nonsense?

The point went over your head but not because you’re incapable of understanding it, but because you choose to not acknowledge it and you would rather reframe the argument to fit your politics.

[Dogs4Me]

On 9/29/2023 at 9:20 AM, renoskier said:

can't really discuss one without the other

Oh phuck me…two entirely different topics, but whatever…

[renoskier]

On 9/30/2023 at 10:55 AM, Dogs4Me said:

Oh phuck me…two entirely different topics, but whatever…

really? why do you think blacks commit crime at higher rates than whites?

are they just inherently bad people?

[Dogs4Me]

On 9/30/2023 at 10:58 AM, renoskier said:

really? why do you think blacks commit crime at higher rates than whites?

are they just inherently bad people?

Criminals commit crime.

[renoskier]

On 9/30/2023 at 11:00 AM, Dogs4Me said:

Criminals commit crime.

have some balls, answer the question...

are blacks committing crimes at higher rated than whites? why?

[Dogs4Me]

On 9/30/2023 at 11:02 AM, renoskier said:

have some balls, answer the question...

are blacks committing crimes at higher rated than whites? why?

Have some balls? You mean be ballsy enough to engage in a nonsense debate? I think you’ve confused balls with stupidity.

[RSF]

Costco's CFO has a different theory on the increase in retail theft.

Self-checkout lanes.  The more of them a store has, the more likely theft has increased.  Costco has few self-checkout lanes, and less theft.

 

I read that today...didn't even have to Google it.

[renoskier]

On 9/30/2023 at 2:19 PM, RSF said:

Costco's CFO has a different theory on the increase in retail theft.

Self-checkout lanes.  The more of them a store has, the more likely theft has increased.  Costco has few self-checkout lanes, and less theft.

 

I read that today...didn't even have to Google it.

they also closely monitor their self checkouts and check receipts at the front door

[happycamper]

On 9/30/2023 at 1:52 PM, Dogs4Me said:

The data? You mean the data that’s intended to muddy the waters instead of provide a solution? The data that provides excuses that require others to fix for people that are assumed to be incapable of doing the right thing?

Are you claiming that any data that shows a racial disparity in anything is solely intended to "muddy the waters"? Because... that sounds pretty +++++ed up. How are you supposed to "provide a solution" if you're vehemently against even considering there's a problem?

On 9/30/2023 at 1:54 PM, Dogs4Me said:

The point went over your head but not because you’re incapable of understanding it, but because you choose to not acknowledge it and you would rather reframe the argument to fit your politics.

No... either you just don't have as good or as clever a point as you think or you didn't communicate it well. Either way, blaming the other person for that is kind of... what could we call it? a victim mentality?

[toonkee]

So, I assume most of you are against police brutality and are for things like due process, at least in theory.

How do we stop or reduce the looting without abandoning basic legal and ethical principles? 

[East Coast Aztec]

On 10/2/2023 at 6:31 AM, toonkee said:

So, I assume most of you are against police brutality and are for things like due process, at least in theory.

How do we stop or reduce the looting without abandoning basic legal and ethical principles? 

Prosecute appropriately, note if things are organized, that is a criminal enterprise, and that qualifies for higher charges.  That is the first big step.  I don't think Target is closing stores because someone stole baby formula, it is because of coordinated attacks.  Large stores improving camera systems in their parking lots, or go a bit harder with a "must show face while entering policy", so their security systems know who is in their store, you can put a mask back on after for those who feel the need to wear one.  Smaller stores have already started going the "will not allow mask" policies.   

 

I do think smaller stores should have the right to defend from their store being completely destroyed the way some of those smash and grabs have been doing, but I don't expect many people making minimum wage in the late night shift to do that, nor would I suggest trying to use a weapon with 10-15 rounds on a group of 40.  Haven't really heard calls for police brutality or removing due process, unless ability to protect yourself and property is fitting that criteria.