More Portland Stores Closing Due to Theft

[Dogs4Me]

On 9/28/2023 at 1:50 PM, happycamper said:

This is disingenuous for at least two reasons.

First off, everyone commits crimes. If we make a draconian on paper legal system that is only draconian in practice for minorities, then we're not saying "don't commit crimes". We're saying "don't commit crimes and be x". Given that white people and black people have roughly equal marijuana usage rates, while white people have roughly half the convictions, well, we kinda have that.

Secondly, defending yourself when you are innocent is expensive. You miss work, you might have to hire a lawyer, you might have to make bail. Hell you might be fired. It's pretty easy to see that if one minority is being arrested at a far higher rate, they're going to see a far higher rate of non-criminal arrests and a lot higher burden of defense in their community.

this ignores the idea that, well, you might be arrested for no crime. a 4x arrest rate based on race would indicate to me as a city councilman that maybe we need to see if some of these arrests are driving while black kinda things. 

It’s not anything other than consequences for criminals. Most criminals are men, should we try to balance that and look for more women committing crimes? It’s a stupid argument and I am not willing to subscribe to a convoluted mentally where we socially engineer to skew numbers so that we are “fair” or accomplish “equity”.

[Dogs4Me]

On 9/28/2023 at 1:52 PM, happycamper said:

... you think that recognizing skin color is racist? so saying "wow jackie robinson did something heroic" is racist?

how is that both ways? "let's look at statistics to see if our police are arresting people differently based on race, you know, the thing that we did for the first 200 years of our country and was literally written into the constitution of the state of oregon" isn't both ways lol. 

Read what you wrote and try a different lens. You make the broad assumption that police are looking for black people committing crimes while letting off criminals that are white. That’s a broad brush…

Sorry, I think the goal should be to go after criminals and leave the color quotas for social justice warriors to find a cause. Talk about racism, profiling to create a victim class for profit and political gain.

BTW, I don’t care that Jackie Robinson was black…he was a good ball player and should be credited for his accomplishments, not solely for his skin color which makes his accomplishments conditional.

[toonkee]

Hooray for Hollywood!

https://x.com/ABC7/status/1707256150671110313?s=20

https://abc7.com/stolen-dog-mugging-north-hollywood-robbery/13836650/

NORTH HOLLYWOOD, LOS ANGELES (KABC) -- Police are asking for the public's help finding two suspects who assaulted a woman and stole her dog at a 7-Eleven in North Hollywood.

Disturbing video shows a man and a woman knock down and assault the victim inside the store and take her dog, an 11-year-old pit bull / Rhodesian ridgeback mix named Drake.

[toonkee]

On 9/28/2023 at 9:21 AM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

I just don't get how hard it is for the echo chamber to admit that Portland's left wing politics on crime are damaging businesses.

Instead we had a page and a half of dog pilling Bob and calling Target nasty liars lol

I often wonder why Las Vegas is still relatively fine. Supposedly we are a lib town run by demmykrats,  but we don't have the SF, Portland, L.A. scariness, at least to anything approaching that extent. Never worried about my car windows getting smashed, not worried about my cat converter getting cut, not worried about getting car-jacked etc, and I live in the downtown area.  I understand those towns I mentioned are still a notch or two bigger than Vegas, but for some reason, those types of crimes just haven't caught on in the culture here, for the most part.

[toonkee]

 

[HR_Poke]

On 9/28/2023 at 11:08 AM, East Coast Aztec said:

They shut down 2 in Seattle, but not the ones with the most crime.  They did two of the Express types that were essentially convenience stores, in neighborhoods with similar stores (CVS is literally next door to one of them, and the other is in the UW student area, with plenty of options).  It looks more like with looting, they found that the convenience store model is inefficient, and the bulk item stores are good to go.  Justification to close a mistake, brought on by a continued issue of theft going unchecked.

But realistically, an apathetic police force and a well-known policy of "don't try to stop them", mixed with the AG's or DA's being lax as shit is at fault for the opportunities being taken advantage of.

Frankly, with much of these smash and grabs and looting being pretty well-organized, these seem like the State might want to think about RICO-type of charges here.  Car theft too.  It could really trim much of the activity

 

Also, here is a pretty good breakdown of this issue

https://capitaloneshopping.com/research/shoplifting-statistics/

It really was a weird progressive policy to think if you drop incarcerations for minor crimes it would help resolve the issues in those communities. Almost like they looked at some correlation and immediately thought that proved causation. 

[HR_Poke]

On 9/28/2023 at 11:19 AM, happycamper said:

   

a bit more reports of property crime etc, but with far fewer "drag/narcotic offenses" reports. makes sense. let's look at arrests.

     

Yep. arrests fell off a cliff, especially warrant arrests. You were definitely right about that. i also don't like that.

 

But they have about 30 million more to play with vs 2018-2019. So where are the "resources" going? Why are they arresting half as many people with about 10% more money? If it were all drug decriminalization I could see it and I suppose the lack of categorization in the "warrant" category could be mostly drugs. They did increase motor vehicle arrests, burglary arrests, and appear to have increased the "stolen property offenses/larceny offenses" category (tough to tell, this name change may indicate a change of methodology). Vandalism, robbery, and arson arrests decreased by about as much as the other three increased, more or less.

 

well that was extremely unsatisfying. Yes, arrests decreased by what even i would call too damn much No, it doesn't seem to be from lack of resources - they have more resources than from before the pandemic. No, it wasn't property crimes- in fact it looks like property crime arrests were the only things that were more or less a push. in fact the biggest decrease of arrests is just serving warrants. does that mean there's a lot less warrants being issued? what are they issued for? how much of that decrease is drug decriminalization related? 

anyway here's the link to prosecution and conviction rates for property crimes.

https://www.mcda.us/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Portland-Property-Crime-2019-2022-Q3.pdf

I'm not gonna snip cause they're large and not a table. tl;dr most things are roughly in the same range as 2019, except specifically "theft" and "mischief". it noted that most of the rejections for "theft" prosecutions were either "needs follow up" or "not enough evidence". there's no other explanation. there's no other explanation for failures to charge in any other category, but theft prosecutions REALLY fell off a cliff, so i guess they felt like they needed to? their prosecution rate is steadily climbing, but the amount of crimes reported to the ppb that the ppb refers to the prosecutors themselves have gone way down. so why? as far as criminal mischief/vandalism, the amount of crimes that ppb refers to the prosecutor vs number of reports have fallen off a cliff. but the prosecutors are actually prosecuting a lot higher percentage of the crimes that are being referred. so is the ppb just getting better at determining what cases are trial worthy?

 

god damn usually when i dig into the numbers i usually conclusively prove one of the two of us right. this was bullshit. you're right about less arresting. i'm right about resources. maybe it's the DA's office that needs more resources. this was bullshit. i want my googling back.

 

Ffs map box. Portland pd gis developer is living in the early 2000s...  map box sucks...

[SharkTanked]

On 9/28/2023 at 3:12 PM, toonkee said:

I often wonder why Las Vegas is still relatively fine. Supposedly we are a lib town run by demmykrats,  but we don't have the SF, Portland, L.A. scariness, at least to anything approaching that extent. Never worried about my car windows getting smashed, not worried about my cat converter getting cut, not worried about getting car-jacked etc, and I live in the downtown area.  I understand those towns I mentioned are still a notch or two bigger than Vegas, but for some reason, those types of crimes just haven't caught on in the culture here, for the most part.

Cat converters are definitely a thing, but fortunately for us, lots of the petty theft stuff seems to stay on/around the Strip and tourist corridors. Still we did recently go thru a home invasion increase but that seems to have subsided.

For all the rep Vegas has, we are fortunate to have pretty low crime compared to lots of other western cities. 

[SharkTanked]

On 9/28/2023 at 4:18 PM, HR_Poke said:

It really was a weird progressive policy to think if you drop incarcerations for minor crimes it would help resolve the issues in those communities. Almost like they looked at some correlation and immediately thought that proved causation. 

I wonder if it really was a policy decision rather than a "fine, you don't give us more officers/lawyers we will start reducing ticketing/sentencing" thing. Maybe somewhere in the middle?

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 9/28/2023 at 5:40 PM, SharkTanked said:

I wonder if it really was a policy decision rather than a "fine, you don't give us more officers/lawyers we will start reducing ticketing/sentencing" thing. Maybe somewhere in the middle?

Those are one in the same.  Not funding legal enforcement of criminal activity is a policy decision in this case.  

[SharkTanked]

On 9/28/2023 at 5:13 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Those are one in the same.  Not funding legal enforcement of criminal activity is a policy decision in this case.  

Maybe so in this case. I really don't know the details of what goes down in Oregon budgetary hearings (state or local). Based on personal experience in the bowels of local government, I have seen situations where line staff refuse to do X because they believe the pols approving the budget don't understand the ramifications of underfunding. It dances in the gray area of insubordination, but it happens.

A completely separate issue, but in a similar vein are the current "sick outs" by teachers in Vegas (CCSD) forcing random closures of schools on certain days due to lack of agreement between Union and officials on the contracts.

You are probably right that the underfunding is a political statement in this case. I just don't know the details.

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 9/28/2023 at 6:23 PM, SharkTanked said:

Maybe so in this case. I really don't know the details of what goes down in Oregon budgetary hearings (state or local). Based on personal experience in the bowels of local government, I have seen situations where line staff refuse to do X because they believe the pols approving the budget don't understand the ramifications of underfunding. It dances in the gray area of insubordination, but it happens.

A completely separate issue, but in a similar vein are the current "sick outs" by teachers forcing random closures of schools on certain days due to lack of agreement between Union and officials on the contracts.

You are probably right that the underfunding is a political statement in this case. I just don't know the details.

I an basing my opinion from what I read.  Same as you.  I kinda tend to trust reporting more often than distrust it.  There is no reason I can think of a city as wealthy as Portland should struggle with accommodating incarceration for criminals for property crime so as to house more violent or worse criminals.

[SharkTanked]

On 9/28/2023 at 5:26 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

I an basing my opinion from what I read.  Same as you.  I kind tend to trust reporting more often than distrust it.  There is no reason I can think of a city as wealthy as Portland should struggle with accommodating incarceration for criminals for property crime so as to house more violent or worse criminals.

There's always reasons. They are just rarely good ones. 

[HR_Poke]

On 9/28/2023 at 5:40 PM, SharkTanked said:

I wonder if it really was a policy decision rather than a "fine, you don't give us more officers/lawyers we will start reducing ticketing/sentencing" thing. Maybe somewhere in the middle?

I'm not sure. I remember San Francisco implemented something similar as a means to combat social injustice in the legal system. There was a coordinated push to get progressive DAs elected across the US to do similar reforms.

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 9/28/2023 at 6:34 PM, SharkTanked said:

There's always reasons. They are just rarely good ones. 

It's dumb.  Democrats are really +++++ing retarded when they let their further left contingent set policy in their locales.

This is an example.  So is Seattle and SF.  

Bums making a mess, screaming at people, and destroying prosperity in the areas they infest and then rampant theft....the dems in Seattle and Portland and SF created this, and destroyed the lives of so many people living in their city trying to make a living at their ma and pa shop.

+++++ em

Anybody on this board refusing to admit the dems have gone way too far left in certain Western Cities have their head up their ass.

[bornontheblue]

On 9/28/2023 at 6:59 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

It's dumb.  Democrats are really +++++ing retarded when they let their further left contingent set policy in their locales.

This is an example.  So is Seattle and SF.  

Bums making a mess, screaming at people, and destroying prosperity in the areas they infest and then rampant theft....the dems in Seattle and Portland and SF created this, and destroyed the lives of so many people living in their city trying to make a living at their ma and pa shop.

+++++ em

Anybody on this board refusing to admit the dems have gone way too far left in certain Western Cities have their head up their ass.

That's how they own the magas. They ruin their own cities to own the magas. 

[East Coast Aztec]

On 9/28/2023 at 5:35 PM, HR_Poke said:

I'm not sure. I remember San Francisco implemented something similar as a means to combat social injustice in the legal system. There was a coordinated push to get progressive DAs elected across the US to do similar reforms.

I don't think they were anticipating reduced cost for not keeping felony thieves locked up and doing diversion programs and fines for misdemeanor theft to lead to all-out looting either.  Same as folks didn't think the War on Drugs would lead to mass incarceration and millions of broken homes for recreational drug use.  If they institute something, it should be specific, organized looting is not a new thing.  How the Courts can't see the difference between stealing food or a small amount of clothes by a single person, or multiple people doing coordinated rips at Lowe's, and how that policy could be administered in a way to attempt to address those concerns while going after career criminals seems like silly people who refuse to alter policy because it would prove they were wrong, even slightly.  I chalk it up to the narcistic nature a politician has to be think they can speak for a bunch of other people that makes it near impossible to reverse course and show they aren't these omnipotent deities.

 

 

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 9/28/2023 at 7:10 PM, bornontheblue said:

That's how they own the magas. They ruin their own cities to own the magas. 

Yer not helping stud.  It is nothing to do with MAGA or being a counter to it.  This is a symptom of a generation of locales being radicalized by the uber far left and then gaining political power and holding those ideals.

 

 

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 9/28/2023 at 7:11 PM, East Coast Aztec said:

I don't think they were anticipating reduced cost for not keeping felony thieves locked up and doing diversion programs and fines for misdemeanor theft to lead to all-out looting either.  Same as folks didn't think the War on Drugs would lead to mass incarceration and millions of broken homes for recreational drug use.  If they institute something, it should be specific, organized looting is not a new thing.  How the Courts can't see the difference between stealing food or a small amount of clothes by a single person, or multiple people doing coordinated rips at Lowe's, and how that policy could be administered in a way to attempt to address those concerns while going after career criminals seems like silly people who refuse to alter policy because it would prove they were wrong, even slightly.  I chalk it up to the narcistic nature a politician has to be think they can speak for a bunch of other people that makes it near impossible to reverse course and show they aren't these omnipotent deities.

 

 

Thread should end with this post.

+++++ing beautifully put dude.  Well stated.

[bornontheblue]

On 9/28/2023 at 7:14 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Yer not helping stud.  It is nothing to do with MAGA or being a counter to it.  This is a symptom of a generation of locales being radicalized by the uber far left and then gaining political power and holding those ideals.

 

 

I get you. I was just being dumb 

Yes , wacky policies in western cities have backfired and obviously don't work. It's ok to say you were wrong and change policy.