UAW Strike

[happycamper]

On 9/27/2023 at 2:07 PM, SalinasSpartan said:

But I thought you didn’t have a problem with collective bargaining? 

when blackrock only sees the line go up by 4.7% instead of 5.3% born gets just incandescently angry

[RSF]

On 9/27/2023 at 1:05 PM, bornontheblue said:

No phuck unions who stand in the way of American companies that could produce cars and car parts more efficiently and cheaper for the consumer but they cant because of union greed.

We're all just whores in the marketplace.

[bornontheblue]

On 9/27/2023 at 12:07 PM, SalinasSpartan said:

But I thought you didn’t have a problem with collective bargaining? 

I don't,  however if you have completely unreasonable demands then one side should definitely be able to walk away and seek substitutes for your labor elsewhere, that is a fair process. The unions are doing themselves and their members no favors by being completely unreasonable about this. They are only going to accelerate along the path to obscurity that they were already on. 

Collective bargaining doesn't mean one side gets all the leverage . 

[Slapdad]

On 9/27/2023 at 1:00 PM, happycamper said:

yes. yes! the people who work at building cars shouldn't get that car money. it should be the select few people from the Right classes who went to the Right schools and who got the Right degrees! see this is why we are truly the party of the working man

I am totally shocked to see a post from you rife with hyperbole and tales of victimized common folks! Shocked!

The right degrees? I'd wager that most autoworkers have zero degrees. But beyond that, when you can pull someone off of the street and replace a factory worker with minimal training, why should those workers get whatever the top dog gets? They shouldn't. The trouble with a union is that the shittiest worker is going to get the same raise as the best worker....talk about a reason to be outraged. I'm not saying that CEO pay has not gotten out of hand, but the gaps being reported are at the top 50-150 corporations in the country and aren't close to the pay gaps between CEO's and workers at the overwhelming majority of U.S. companies. It's not unlike the biggest actors in Hollywood earning 500x the wages of an actor who is an extra or Verlander making 120x what someone like Josh Jung does. 

 

[happycamper]

On 9/27/2023 at 2:11 PM, bornontheblue said:

I don't,  however if you have completely unreasonable demands then one side should definitely be able to walk away and seek substitutes for your labor elsewhere, that is a fair process. The unions are doing themselves and their members no favors by being completely unreasonable about this. They are only going to accelerate along the path to obscurity that they were already on. 

Collective bargaining doesn't mean one side gets all the leverage . 

i mean... the union has an incentive to reach an agreement quickly as they, uh, aren't getting paid during the strike

the idea that because there are unions, the unions have all the leverage is insane

[SalinasSpartan]

On 9/27/2023 at 11:11 AM, bornontheblue said:

I don't,  however if you have completely unreasonable demands then one side should definitely be able to walk away and seek substitutes for your labor elsewhere, that is a fair process. The unions are doing themselves and their members no favors by being completely unreasonable about this. They are only going to accelerate along the path to obscurity that they were already on. 

Collective bargaining doesn't mean one side gets all the leverage . 

You are living in a fantasy land if you think striking workers “get all the leverage”. 
 

And you can’t say “phuck unions” and then say you have “no problems” with collective bargaining. Collective bargaining is what unions do. It’s like saying “PHUCK ALL PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL TEAMS!” But also, “o I have no problem with professional basketball.” 

[happycamper]

On 9/27/2023 at 2:14 PM, Slapdad said:

I am totally shocked to see a post from you rife with hyperbole and tales of victimized common folks! Shocked!

The right degrees? I'd wager that most autoworkers have zero degrees. But beyond that, when you can pull someone off of the street and replace a factory worker with minimal training,

yes. this is why teslas are built so well.

On 9/27/2023 at 2:14 PM, Slapdad said:

why should those workers get whatever the top dog gets? They shouldn't.

they dont lmao. they get like 1/500th

On 9/27/2023 at 2:14 PM, Slapdad said:

The trouble with a union is that the shittiest worker is going to get the same raise as the best worker....talk about a reason to be outraged.

yeah man wage equality and transparency is terrible. when workers don't stand together the best workers definitely get paid more with better benefits vs unions... right?

On 9/27/2023 at 2:14 PM, Slapdad said:

I'm not saying that CEO pay has not gotten out of hand, but the gaps being reported are at the top 50-150 corporations in the country and aren't close to the pay gaps between CEO's and workers at the overwhelming majority of U.S. companies. It's not unlike the biggest actors in Hollywood earning 500x the wages of an actor who is an extra or Verlander making 120x what someone like Josh Jung does. 

 

amazing. both of your examples are wrong. actors in hollywood - including a listers - are on strike primarily to support increases in guild minimums and verlander makes 60x jung (hint: look up contract length)

[happycamper]

On 9/27/2023 at 2:21 PM, SalinasSpartan said:

You are living in a fantasy land if you think striking workers “get all the leverage”. 
 

And you can’t say “phuck unions” and then say you have “no problems” with collective bargaining. Collective bargaining is what unions do. It’s like saying “PHUCK ALL PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL TEAMS!” But also, “o I have no problem with professional basketball.” 

tfw you think that the knicks are ruining james dolan

[bornontheblue]

On 9/27/2023 at 12:21 PM, SalinasSpartan said:

You are living in a fantasy land if you think striking workers “get all the leverage”. 
 

And you can’t say “phuck unions” and then say you have “no problems” with collective bargaining. Collective bargaining is what unions do. It’s like saying “PHUCK ALL PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL TEAMS!” But also, “o I have no problem with professional basketball.” 

I have no problem with collective bargaining. I have no problem with working man and women negotiating a fair raise, and improved conditions.  But the unions should not be surprised when their own greed works against them in expediting their own demise. 

 

[HR_Poke]

On 9/27/2023 at 11:40 AM, Slapdad said:

If you're a recent accounting grad working 80+ hours a week and it doesn't lead to bigger and better opportunities, then you probably weren't very good at what you do. Working lots of hours comes with the territory. Most of the CFO's and a decent percentage of the CEO's that the autoworkers are complaining about went that route to get to where they're at and they're the best of the best (presumably). A 40% pay raise (while a bad idea, IMO) for the CEO shouldn't translate into an automatic 40% increase for the workers...that's silly. 

None of the recent accounting grads want to work those hours regardless of their quality.  Thats the point.  It's not the same working world as Gen Xers and Boomers want to think it is. 

[SalinasSpartan]

On 9/27/2023 at 11:30 AM, bornontheblue said:

I have no problem with collective bargaining. I have no problem with working man and women negotiating a fair raise, and improved conditions.  But the unions should not be surprised when their own greed works against them in expediting their own demise. 

 

Sounds like you only “don’t have a problem” with collective bargaining so long as the union just assents to whatever the employer is offering without a fight.

[HR_Poke]

On 9/27/2023 at 12:10 PM, RSF said:

We're all just whores in the marketplace.

[Slapdad]

On 9/27/2023 at 1:38 PM, HR_Poke said:

None of the recent accounting grads want to work those hours regardless of their quality.  Thats the point.  It's not the same working world as Gen Xers and Boomers want to think it is. 

I know that younger people don't have the same desire to put in the long hours, but my comment was specifically in reference to your comment that "In my experience working 80+ is great for the company but rarely do you get rewarded for it.". That's simply not true. 

[HR_Poke]

On 9/27/2023 at 12:46 PM, Slapdad said:

I know that younger people don't have the same desire to put in the long hours, but my comment was specifically in reference to your comment that "In my experience working 80+ is great for the company but rarely do you get rewarded for it.". That's simply not true. 

My experience begs to differ.

[toonkee]

Telling workers or CEOs or anyone what they should or shouldn't be paid is commie talk. The market will bear what the market will bear. Pay is subject to simple market forces like supply and demand.  

[Slapdad]

On 9/27/2023 at 1:25 PM, happycamper said:

yes. this is why teslas are built so well.

You obviously don't realize that Tesla's have notoriously poor build quality. The technology that makes up the Tesla is great....you know, the technology designed by the folks with degrees and whatnot. The build quality has historically been poor, as even Elon Musk has admitted. 

On 9/27/2023 at 1:25 PM, happycamper said:

they dont lmao. they get like 1/500th

What does it matter to you? Or the workers, for that matter. As a worker, I have never once pointed to a CEO and lamented the fact that I make a certain percentage or ration that they did. If I ever felt that I wasn't making what I was worth, then I got a new job. I'm sure you've done the same. 

On 9/27/2023 at 1:25 PM, happycamper said:

yeah man wage equality and transparency is terrible. when workers don't stand together the best workers definitely get paid more with better benefits vs unions... right?

Transparency CAN be troublesome and it's why many companies tell their workers that they should not discuss their salaries...it creates animosity between workers who range from great workers to not-so-good when they find out the idiot three stations down makes the same wage they do. But my comment has nothing to do with transparency, it's about knowing where you fall in the grand scheme of things. In a union, great workers get dragged down to average levels by the bad workers, who get pulled up to average wage levels by the bad workers. Its an incredibly inefficient way to get the most out of an organization. Unions had their place before labor laws, but in most (not all) cases, they're antiquated and ineffective. 

On 9/27/2023 at 1:25 PM, happycamper said:

amazing. both of your examples are wrong. actors in hollywood - including a listers - are on strike primarily to support increases in guild minimums and verlander makes 60x jung (hint: look up contract length)

In most cases, A-listers publicly support the guild strike to avoid publicity nightmares, but you'll notice that the as time goes on, many are still working. And in the meantime, all of the supporting professions and businesses that depend on Hollywood suffer and will never benefit, even though the guild just signed a tentative agreement. Strikes have far-reaching negative effects on a lot of other folks that won't get a 40% raise. Verlander making 60x Jung still is not similar to comparing autoworkers to CEO's. June would be more like middle management while autoworkers would be more like minor league players with a starting salary of $57,200...757x less than Verlander. That's life. 

[Los_Aztecas]

On 9/27/2023 at 10:50 AM, HR_Poke said:

My experience begs to differ.

Depends if you are salary or hourly. I'm hourly and with incentives + OT pay it makes a huge difference if I work an extra shift or two a week.

[SalinasSpartan]

On 9/27/2023 at 11:56 AM, toonkee said:

Telling workers or CEOs or anyone what they should or shouldn't be paid is commie talk. The market will bear what the market will bear. Pay is subject to simple market forces like supply and demand.  

Nobody is doing that in this situation. Auto workers are negotiating with CEOs as to how much the auto workers should be paid. 

[Los_Aztecas]

On 9/27/2023 at 10:14 AM, Slapdad said:

I am totally shocked to see a post from you rife with hyperbole and tales of victimized common folks! Shocked!

The right degrees? I'd wager that most autoworkers have zero degrees. But beyond that, when you can pull someone off of the street and replace a factory worker with minimal training, why should those workers get whatever the top dog gets?

 

 

On 9/27/2023 at 10:25 AM, happycamper said:

yes. this is why teslas are built so well.

 

 

On 9/27/2023 at 11:11 AM, Slapdad said:

You obviously don't realize that Tesla's have notoriously poor build quality. The technology that makes up the Tesla is great....you know, the technology designed by the folks with degrees and whatnot. The build quality has historically been poor, as even Elon Musk has admitted. 

 

I'm not even really following the conversation and I'm picking up shit better than you. UP YOUR GAME.

[happycamper]

On 9/27/2023 at 3:11 PM, Slapdad said:

 

Transparency CAN be troublesome and it's why many companies tell their workers that they should not discuss their salaries.

cause they love breaking the law lmao