The Christofascists have manufactured even more outrage

[bornontheblue]

On 5/27/2023 at 2:19 PM, grandjean87 said:

I'm sorry for using big words without also explaining what they mean.   When I come across unfamiliar terms (happens all the time), I search for meaning and context.

What do you mean by judgmental?   Because, in common language, that's something way different.  We're not talking about setting ourselves above others and condemning their souls.  Paul wrote to advise a community of right living in Col 3:16, "Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, as in all wisdom you teach and admonish one another, singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God."   We don't even need to know that passage to know there is a role for members of the Body to guide others and sometimes in judgment.  That's embedded in the teaching role of the church, members of the Body, parents, and other authorities, etc. 

Word of the day is "soteriology" -- study of theologies of salvation.  I agree with you here as we don't get that judgment role. 

 

Dude I didn't say you use big words. You use a lot of words to really say nothing. Faux Intelligence 

What did Jesus say about criticizing others about the sliver in their eye when you have log in your own eye.

Yes members of the body of  Christ should hold each other accountable, but always in loving kindness , and redirected back to God's love, never in demeaning judgement. 

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 5/27/2023 at 4:15 PM, bornontheblue said:

Even little children , and those with severe mental incapacitation are capable of understanding and accepting gods love. In fact they come to it much more naturally than most adults. We adults make it complicated. Salvation is not a long complicated process. It's just simply accepting gods love. 

As far as not being judgemental what I specifically mean is that we are in no position to criticize anybody else for their sinfulness, their lifestyle, who they love etc   when we are all guilty sinners in need of gods love and forgiveness. 

No, not all sins are equal in the eyes of God.  I think God is completely fine with me Judging the Moscow killer.  GJ already shredded you.

[bornontheblue]

On 5/27/2023 at 4:46 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

No, not all sins are equal in the eyes of God.  I think God is completely fine with me Judging the Moscow killer.  GJ already shredded you.

Lol. We are all guilty sinners and deserving of  judgement which is precisely why we are not to judge others. I had no idea this concept would be offensive, it's kind of surprising.  If you want to use child molesters and murders as examples fine, I'm judgemental of them too. I'm imperfect. 

Can you please provide me the official list of sins in order of least to most severe. I'd like to know where I stand on that list. 

 

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 5/27/2023 at 4:58 PM, bornontheblue said:

Lol. We are all guilty sinners and deserving of  judgement which is precisely why we are not to judge others. I had no idea this concept would be offensive, it's kind of surprising.  If you want to use child molesters and murders as examples fine, I'm judgemental of them too. I'm imperfect. 

Can you please provide me the official list of sins in order of least to most severe. I'd like to know where I stand on that list. 

 

GJ already shredded your theology on this.  Bible clearly says it is fine to judge others and sometimes we have moral obligation to do so.

[bornontheblue]

On 5/27/2023 at 5:00 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

GJ already shredded your theology on this.  Bible clearly says it is fine to judge others and sometimes we have moral obligation to do so.

Let's see what James has to say about it. I'll take James' word over GJ. I'm sure GJ will have a long-winded explanation that doesn't really claim, or say anything

For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
James 2:10‭-‬11 NKJV

https://bible.com/bible/114/jas.2.10-11.NKJV

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 5/27/2023 at 5:04 PM, bornontheblue said:

Let's see what James has to say about it. I'll take gos word over GJ. I'm sure he will have a long-winded explanation that doesn't really claim, or say anything

For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
James 2:10‭-‬11 NKJV

https://bible.com/bible/114/jas.2.10-11.NKJV

Not what you are claiming it does lol.

Bible clearly say it is ok to judge others.  Were those passaged fake?  GJ +++++ing shredded you.

I, personally, believe that refusing to use your brain here and selectively quoting passages that are in contradiction with other passages, is insulting to the God who gave you that brain.  But hey, no judgement.   If you think God has any objection to judging the Moscow murderer, yer kind of being retard.

[halfmanhalfbronco]

Jesus judged the pharisees.  If it is ok for Jesus, it is ok for me.

Paul judged the Corinthians. 

New testament if filled with judging.   

[bornontheblue]

On 5/27/2023 at 5:07 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Not what you are claiming it does lol.

Bible clearly say it is ok to judge others.  Were those passaged fake?  GJ +++++ing shredded you.

I, personally, believe that refusing to use your brain here and selectively quoting passages that are in contradiction with other passages, is insulting to the God who gave you that brain.  But hey, no judgement.   If you think God has any objection to judging the Moscow murderer, yer kind of being retard.

I'm in no position to pass judgement on anybody else no matter what their situation because I'm an infallible person deserving of the same  judgement myself. I try to live my life that way because I believe that's how God wants me to live, with unconditional love and acceptance of everyone. That's my standard, which I admit I frequently fail at. 

I understand you have a different opinion. That's fine. I respect that.

 

 

 

[bornontheblue]

On 5/27/2023 at 5:11 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Jesus judged the pharisees.  If it is ok for Jesus, it is ok for me.

Paul judged the Corinthians. 

New testament if filled with judging.   

But you are not Jesus. Jesus was in a position to judge because he was perfect, and without sin. You are definitely not without sin, none of us are. 

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 5/27/2023 at 5:16 PM, bornontheblue said:

I'm in no position to pass judgement on anybody else no matter what their situation because I'm an infallible person deserving of the same  judgement myself. I try to live my life that way because I believe that's how God wants me to live, with unconditional love and acceptance of everyone. That's my standard, which I admit I frequently fail at. 

I understand you have a different opinion. That's fine. I respect that.

 

 

 

This theolgean lays it out pretty well, citing scripture to back up his opinion that Christians have a duty to judge.  That not judging, ever, is a pretty cruel thing.

http://www.shanepruitt.com/bible-give-us-permission-judge-others/

It's fine if that is how you believe just don't pretend it is based on a good understanding of scripture.  Because it is not.  That's the rub.

Your boy Paul was one judgmental dude.

[bornontheblue]

On 5/27/2023 at 5:20 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

This theolgean lays it out pretty well, citing scripture to back up his opinion that Christians have a duty to judge.  That not judging, ever, is a pretty cruel thing.

http://www.shanepruitt.com/bible-give-us-permission-judge-others/

It's fine if that is how you believe just don't pretend it is based on a good understanding of scripture.  Because it is not.  That's the rub.

Your boy Paul was one judgmental dude.

What did Jesus say about criticizing others about their sinfulness.

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

Matthew 7:1‭-‬5 NKJV

 

https://bible.com/bible/114/mat.7.1-5.NKJV

I'll take the word of christ, or an apostle that lived with Christ over a theologian. It's not hard to Google a theologians opinion to back up the opinion you already had. 

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 5/27/2023 at 5:29 PM, bornontheblue said:

What did Jesus say about criticizing others about their sinfulness.

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

Matthew 7:1‭-‬5 NKJV

 

https://bible.com/bible/114/mat.7.1-5.NKJV

I'll take the word of christ, or an apostle that lived with Christ over a theologian. It's not hard to Google a theologians opinion to back up the opinion you already had. 

Yeah, that theologian offers the context behind that passage.  It does not say or mean what you are saying it does.  It does NOT say we are never to judge.

Never judging is a pretty cruel and Unchristian thing to do.  Sorry bud, your theology is not rooted in a good understand of scripture, rather the opposite.

"First of all, in context, when Jesus said, “Judge not, that you be not judged;” it was not a warning against speaking out against certain actions or behaviors. Matthew 7:1 is actually a precursor given to us by Jesus on how to judge correctly. It’s as if He is telling us to judge but to do it in a particular manner and warning His followers of self-righteousness and hypocrisy. If we’re going to correct someone, then we must expect to be held to the same standard. If we judge with aggression, then we can expect to be judged with aggression. However, notice that the Son of God doesn’t say to sit idly by while your brother has a speck in his eye. We are supposed to judge others carefully and lovingly; we just need to make sure we’re also carefully judging ourselves. Even though we remove the plank in our eye, Jesus still says we must remove the speck in our brother’s."

 

[bornontheblue]

On 5/27/2023 at 5:33 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Yeah, that theologian offers the context behind that passage.  It does not say or mean what you are saying it does.  It does NOT say we are never to judge.

Never judging is a pretty cruel and Unchristian thing to do.  Sorry bud, your theology is not rooted in a good understand of scripture, rather the opposite.

"First of all, in context, when Jesus said, “Judge not, that you be not judged;” it was not a warning against speaking out against certain actions or behaviors. Matthew 7:1 is actually a precursor given to us by Jesus on how to judge correctly. It’s as if He is telling us to judge but to do it in a particular manner and warning His followers of self-righteousness and hypocrisy. If we’re going to correct someone, then we must expect to be held to the same standard. If we judge with aggression, then we can expect to be judged with aggression. However, notice that the Son of God doesn’t say to sit idly by while your brother has a speck in his eye. We are supposed to judge others carefully and lovingly; we just need to make sure we’re also carefully judging ourselves. Even though we remove the plank in our eye, Jesus still says we must remove the speck in our brother’s."

 

Jesus never said we MUST  remove the speck from our brothers eye. I can't take this Theologian seriously if they are going to Insert meaning that is clearly is  not there. 

In fact Jesus himself had a specific word for those who call out the speck in their brothers eye. Hypocrite. Go read it again. 

The meaning of the words of Jesus is clearly evident and does not require a theologian to interpret,  and it means none of us are in a position to criticize (Judge) the sinfulness of others , because we probably are more sinful than the one you are criticizing. 

We have a duty to love and serve our brothers and sisters in Christ, and even love and serve those who don't believe. Jesus himself was especially critical of the religious establishment of the 1dt century  for judging others instead of accepting them and loving them . None of us are in a position where we can judge anyone else without being a hypocrite. 

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 5/27/2023 at 5:50 PM, bornontheblue said:

Jesus never said we MUST  remove the speck from our brothers eye. I can't take this Theologian seriously if they are going to Insert meaning that is clearly is  not there. 

In fact Jesus himself had a specific word for those who call out the speck in their brothers eye. Hypocrite. Go read it again. 

The meaning of the words of Jesus is clearly evident and does not require a theologian to interpret,  and it means none of us are in a position to criticize (Judge) the sinfulness of others , because we probably are more sinful than the one you are criticizing. 

We have a duty to love and serve our brothers and sisters in Christ, and even love and serve those who don't believe. Jesus himself was especially critical of the religious establishment of the 1dt century  for judging others instead of accepting them and loving them . None of us are in a position where we can judge anyone else without being a hypocrite. 

 

Your theology is very basic.  That is literally not what it means lol.  Jesus literally says that we are not all the same in that passage.  Some of us have specks, the others planks.  That is judgmental in and of itself.  

I think you refusing to judge anybody, ever not only makes you harmful to society but is in no way loving or Christ like.  Christ literally judged people.  Apostle John tells us to judge people.  Paul judges people.  

[halfmanhalfbronco]

Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.  John 7:20

@bornontheblue Jesus literally commands us to judge....

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 5/27/2023 at 5:50 PM, bornontheblue said:

Jesus never said we MUST  remove the speck from our brothers eye. I can't take this Theologian seriously if they are going to Insert meaning that is clearly is  not there. 

In fact Jesus himself had a specific word for those who call out the speck in their brothers eye. Hypocrite. Go read it again. 

The meaning of the words of Jesus is clearly evident and does not require a theologian to interpret,  and it means none of us are in a position to criticize (Judge) the sinfulness of others , because we probably are more sinful than the one you are criticizing. 

We have a duty to love and serve our brothers and sisters in Christ, and even love and serve those who don't believe. Jesus himself was especially critical of the religious establishment of the 1dt century  for judging others instead of accepting them and loving them . None of us are in a position where we can judge anyone else without being a hypocrite. 

In that same sermon, how are we to know who the swine, dogs and false teachers are if we do not judge them, huh?  

My god man use your brain here.

[bornontheblue]

On 5/27/2023 at 5:55 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

 

Your theology is very basic.  That is literally not what it means lol.  Jesus literally says that we are not all the same in that passage.  Some of us have specks, the others planks.  That is judgmental in and of itself.  

I think you refusing to judge anybody, every not only makes you harmful to society but is in no way loving or Christ like.  Christ literally judged people.  Apostle John tells us to judge people.  Paul judges people.  

Christ was in a position to judge because he was perfect. He could judge others without being a hypocrite. In fact his harshest judgement was reserved for the religious establishment of the day who actively sought to judge and harass others. Would you be one of those who sought to harass others because of their Sinfulness, it kind of sounds like you would have been. The actual people that were outcast as sinners deserving of judgement by the religious establishment of the day were the people that Jesus served and showed kindness and mercy too. Would you be one of the men who was about to stone to death the adulteress woman because she needed to judged . Christ certainly wasn't about that. 

If s convicted felon came to your church and  wanted to pray and ask God for forgiveness  would you tell him what a shitty piece of shit he is or would you pray with him , and lead him to christs love and forgiveness

 

 

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 5/27/2023 at 6:10 PM, bornontheblue said:

Christ was in a position to judge because he was perfect. He could judge others without being a hypocrite. In fact his harshest judgement was reserved for the religious establishment of the day who actively sought to judge and harass others. Would you be one of those who sought to harass others because of their Sinfulness, it kind of sounds like you would have been. The actual people that were outcast as sinners deserving of judgement by the religious establishment of the day were the people that Jesus served and showed kindness and mercy too. Would you be one of the men who was about to stone to death the adulteress woman because she needed to judged . Christ certainly wasn't about that. 

If s convicted felon came to your church and  wanted to pray and ask God for forgiveness  would you tell him what a shitty piece of shit he is or would you pray with him , and lead him to christs love and forgiveness

 

 

There are good ways to judge and bad ways to judge.  Christ literally say we are to judge in John.

Your interpretation of that passage is in error.  When looking at the totality of the New Testament is is clear you have a Christian duty to judge. 

[bornontheblue]

On 5/27/2023 at 6:13 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

There are good ways to judge and bad ways to judge.  Christ literally say we are to judge in John.

Your interpretation of that passage is in error.  When looking at the totality of the New Testament is is clear you have a Christian duty to judge. 

Christ literally says those who judge are hypocrites 

I'm a believing Christian and I am in no place to judge anybody else for sins they are struggling with because I'm just as guilty as they are, and equally deserving of the same  judgement. Im commanded to show love, and kindness, and mercy to all of gods children, even those who have done horrible, terrible things.  

 

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 5/27/2023 at 6:18 PM, bornontheblue said:

Christ literally says those who judge are hypocrites 

I'm a believing Christian and I am in no place to judge anybody else for sins they are struggling with because I'm just as guilty as they are, and equally deserving of the same  judgement. Im commanded to show love, and kindness, and mercy to all of gods children, even those who have done horrible, terrible things.  

 

Hypocritical judgement makes on a hypocrite.  I love how you are just ignoring John 7:20 where we are given a direct command to judge others in favor of your interpretation of the passage that ignores the context immediately preceding and following it.  Do not throw your pearls before swine.  Do not give to dogs what is sacred.  Watch for false prophets.  How do we identify the swine, dogs and false prophets?  In order to identify them we must judge them on their words and actions, there is no other way.  Jesus tells us  to Judge in John.  The apostle John tells us to judge.  Paul judges the Ephesians in the same sermon you are quoting Jesus says we can identify false prohets by their fruit.  This requires judgement.  Galatians 6:1 commands us to judge.  Later in Mathew we are once again advised to judge.  Ephesians 4:15.

Sorry bud, scripture is not on your side.  If you believe you should never judge, fine, just don't tell us you came to that conclusion through a superior understanding of scripture.