Montana Supreme Court UNANIMOUSLY protects a womens right to abortion

[SalinasSpartan]

On 5/14/2023 at 8:24 AM, soupslam1 said:

I’m not a religious person, or at least I don’t practice it. However, I do believe life is sacred and snuffing out an innocent life sucks, no pun intended. 

Having said that I’m also a pragmatist and realize women are going to have abortions whether legal or not so it might as well be legally done in a hospital or clinic rather than a coat hanger. 

I am quite sure you have been informed of this before, but the whole damn debate is basically over when “life” actually starts. 

[Akkula]

On 5/14/2023 at 9:05 AM, sactowndog said:

I mean not imposing one’s religious beliefs on others obviously extends to none believers but not a point Soup cares about.   
 

as to the rest… no one argues killing a 6 month old isn’t murder….. including you.   Because everyone believes ensoulment has occurred.  That point is really all that matters.  

This "ensoulment" thing you are on is kind of weird, especially when explaining in non religious terms.  A six year old can be physically separated from the mother and kept alive.  A fetus cannot.   A child can be handed over to the state.   A fetus cannot.   That is pretty easy to understand without needing this "ensoulment" religious concept. 

That is also a good reason why fetal viability was a good and moderate cutoff point for many laws... no religion needed. 

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 5/14/2023 at 9:05 AM, sactowndog said:

I mean not imposing one’s religious beliefs on others obviously extends to none believers but not a point Soup cares about.   
 

as to the rest… no one argues killing a 6 month old isn’t murder….. including you.   Because everyone believes ensoulment has occurred.  That point is really all that matters.  

Do atheists believe in ensoulment?  I know we have a lot of atheists here.

[Akkula]

On 5/14/2023 at 5:00 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Do atheists believe in ensoulment?  I know we have a lot of atheists here.

Even a religious person should be able to separate religion from the law.  The country was founded on that idea.  Funny how christian nationalists now believe in their own version of sharia law.   Remember when that was a "thing" that terrified them and drove their right wing networks for a while?

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 5/14/2023 at 5:08 PM, Akkula said:

Even a religious person should be able to separate religion from the law.  The country was founded on that idea.  Funny how christian nationalists now believe in their own version of sharia law.   Remember when that was a "thing" that terrified them and drove their right wing networks for a while?

I agree with you.  I just thought the wording was interesting "we all believe ensoulment has occurred".  

[Akkula]

On 5/14/2023 at 5:11 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

I agree with you.  I just thought the wording was interesting "we all believe ensoulment has occurred".  

You should be able to simultaneously hold the thought in your head that abortion is morally wrong but also believe the government is in no position to adjudicate the morality. 

Right wingers frame abortion as murder because murder is "black and white."  They don't frame it as eviction because most believe the USA should be able to evict a foreigner,  even if they may face death. 

Like I said,  if a fetus can be transplanted,  maybe I will change my mind and maybe a bunch of right wing females will step up and answer the call.  Until then,  butt out.

[renoskier]

On 5/14/2023 at 4:00 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Do atheists believe in ensoulment?  I know we have a lot of atheists here.

reincarnation? 

no God necessary 

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 5/14/2023 at 5:20 PM, Akkula said:

You should be able to simultaneously hold the thought in your head that abortion is morally wrong but also believe the government is in no position to adjudicate the morality. 

Right wingers frame abortion as murder because murder is "black and white."  They don't frame it as eviction because most believe the USA should be able to evict a foreigner,  even if they may face death. 

Like I said,  if a fetus can be transplanted,  maybe I will change my mind and maybe a bunch of right wing females will step up and answer the call.  Until then,  butt out.

Why are you telling me this?  I've been of this position publicly for years and even further, I don't think abortion is necessarily morally wrong.  I was simply talking to Sactown about a statement I found interesting.  Nothing more.

[sactowndog]

On 5/14/2023 at 3:44 PM, Akkula said:

This "ensoulment" thing you are on is kind of weird, especially when explaining in non religious terms.  A six year old can be physically separated from the mother and kept alive.  A fetus cannot.   A child can be handed over to the state.   A fetus cannot.   That is pretty easy to understand without needing this "ensoulment" religious concept. 

That is also a good reason why fetal viability was a good and moderate cutoff point for many laws... no religion needed. 

Fair enough….   My reasoning for it is mostly to show that as a religious belief it’s not universal.  I do think an approach based on Freedom of religion is a viable approach to overturn this…. 

[sactowndog]

On 5/14/2023 at 4:00 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Do atheists believe in ensoulment?  I know we have a lot of atheists here.

Not sure.  But not sure if you are going to attack this ruling on a freedom of religion basis it matters.   

[415hawaiiboy]

On 5/14/2023 at 6:09 AM, SJSUMFA2013 said:

Ha! June here. Not sure what the occasion was but my brother was born almost exactly 3 years later so there must be something special about September. 

Maybe your dad and mom loved college football.  There was a big win and they celebrated into the evening. 
 

But more likely:

Labor Day is in early Sept.  That long weekend could have been spent on a vacation. Dad paid for the vacay and got rewarded.  
 

Dad ran the same play 2 years later.  You were merely 2 years old and unaware of the hanky panky going on.  

[sactowndog]

On 5/14/2023 at 4:26 PM, renoskier said:

reincarnation? 

no God necessary 

So you can’t have reincarnation without ensoulment.   

[SharkTanked]

On 5/14/2023 at 8:15 AM, soupslam1 said:

My point is abortion is not something to celebrate per some of the comments above like “outstanding”. I’m sure even women who abort would agree.

And it’s Mother’s Day which is something to celebrate. 

Women maintaining rights over their bodies, and not allowing the state to tell them what they can and cannot do is something to celebrate, and yes, it is... outstanding!

The fact that there will be no medical hesitancy due to criminal liability concerns on the part of OB/GYN's leading to women's lives being unnecessarily put in jeopardy (and increasing long-term complications), is... outstanding!

Montana now has the superior lifestyle.

[MetropolitanCowboy]

On 5/14/2023 at 1:56 AM, bsu_alum9 said:

Montana truly is the last best place.

The Supreme Court up there still is sane.

[406bleedsblue]

On 5/15/2023 at 8:52 AM, SharkTanked said:

Women maintaining rights over their bodies, and not allowing the state to tell them what they can and cannot do is something to celebrate, and yes, it is... outstanding!

I completely agree with this statement

[Rebels18]

On 5/13/2023 at 10:24 PM, SharkTanked said:

And killing less mothers.

Personally, I like my fetus with a little Grey Poupon. How about you?

You're gross 

[Spaztecs]

On 5/15/2023 at 8:52 AM, SharkTanked said:

Women maintaining rights over their bodies, and not allowing the state to tell them what they can and cannot do is something to celebrate, and yes, it is... outstanding!

The fact that there will be no medical hesitancy due to criminal liability concerns on the part of OB/GYN's leading to women's lives being unnecessarily put in jeopardy (and increasing long-term complications), is... outstanding!

Montana now has the superior lifestyle.

True,

But Deep in the Heart of Texas, a dude just offed his GF for having an abortion.

I'm wondering in Abbott will encourage the Board of Pardons to speed up his case ?

https://www.kbtx.com/2023/05/13/texas-woman-killed-by-boyfriend-after-having-an-abortion-police-say/

 

[soupslam1]

On 5/14/2023 at 12:10 PM, SalinasSpartan said:

I am quite sure you have been informed of this before, but the whole damn debate is basically over when “life” actually starts. 

Are you implying a fetus is not a living thing? 

[toonkee]

On 5/14/2023 at 4:00 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Do atheists believe in ensoulment?  I know we have a lot of atheists here.

[SharkTanked]

On 5/15/2023 at 9:59 PM, soupslam1 said:

Are you implying a fetus is not a living thing? 

Everything you eat is a living thing or was before it was killed for your consumption. Hence my "grey poupon" joke.