Unified thread on all the legal woes of trump & his clown cohorts

[bornontheblue]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-is-a-target-of-blind-leading-the-blind-justice-bdc150fa?mod=hp_opin_pos_2#cxrecs_s

 

There is no need by now to rehearse in detail how Alvin Bragg, the Manhattan district attorney, through an exercise of legal alchemy turned the base metal of a New York state bookkeeping misdemeanor into the Democratic gold of a criminal felony for the man the party likes to think of as Al Capone and Jack the Ripper rolled into one. It was a highly selective prosecution by a partisan district attorney who has been content to let muggers and thieves walk free on the streets of his city, but who, with the help of a complaisant judge, brought down the full force of the law on the perpetrator of an accounting deception.

The case would surely never have been brought if Mr. Trump weren’t the accused. Yet the former president himself is no innocent victim. Despite the colorful efforts of some his more unhinged supporters to use the verdict to enshrine him in the martyrology of subjects of state oppression, alongside Nelson Mandela, Alexander Solzenhitsyn and, yes, Jesus Christ, we should acknowledge that it is his own behavior that has enabled his enemies and weaponized their efforts. Throughout his long business and shorter political career he has skirted the blurry edges of norms and rules of fairness, decency and even legality. He is where he is now because he did something sordid and then a jury found he misrepresented in legally binding documents his efforts to prevent it becoming known in a way that might hurt his political prospects. Given his astonishing record of good fortune, he may gain more in political benefit than he loses from the cost of bearing the label of felon, a label likely to be erased by future appeals.

But it doesn’t matter that Mr. Trump is an imperfect object of our pity. The greater damage wrought by this frivolous trial and conviction is to the nation itself. It marks a further steep step down in the march toward the annihilation of the legitimacy of the vital institutions of this country.

Through all the many miscarriages of justice, flawed decisions and corrupt jurists in their history, Americans have managed to retain a basic faith that ultimately justice can still be administered independent of political control. Democrats should understand that when it is abused like this, that faith is dissolved and the rules abandoned. They may be rejoicing now, but the whirlwind they will reap by reducing the law to the status of a weapon in the hands of the dominant political power is fatal for them too—and for the American system of government.

[Poorohman]

On 6/3/2024 at 11:58 AM, bornontheblue said:

I don't know. The original crime went past the statute of limitations, and the judge won't tell us what the secondary crimes were to bring the original crime back to life as a felony.  Now add to that the fact that the Judge told the Jury to use any combination they needed to to get to 12 guilty votes, and we don't know what those were either. Is this real? You can be convicted of a crime without knowing what the actual crime was. Hugo Chavez would be so proud of us. 

It is some pretty shady shit, but you just nod your head in agreement because you really wanted trump to be guilty anyways. 

 

The crimes he was convicted for are all in writing moron.  But keep playing stupid like you always do.

I feel sorry for anyone who pays you for CPA services.  I've never seen or heard of another CPA excusing tax fraud by simply not knowing how to classify expenses.  But you did.  LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. 

How can I hide my trip to Tahiti as a business expense?  I'm curious?

[bornontheblue]

On 6/3/2024 at 2:27 PM, Poorohman said:

The crimes he was convicted for are all in writing moron.

Can you provide a list of the exact combination of crimes he committed to raise the original crime to a felony?  Can you provide the exact list the jury voted on? The judge won't provide it but maybe @Poorohman knows. 

CPA's have no obligation to audit their tax clients records dumbass. If my client tells me its legal fees, and there is no obvious evidence that is readily apparent that it isn't legal fees it's getting deducted as legal fees. 

 

[Akkula]

On 6/3/2024 at 2:27 PM, bornontheblue said:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-is-a-target-of-blind-leading-the-blind-justice-bdc150fa?mod=hp_opin_pos_2#cxrecs_s

 

There is no need by now to rehearse in detail how Alvin Bragg, the Manhattan district attorney, through an exercise of legal alchemy turned the base metal of a New York state bookkeeping misdemeanor into the Democratic gold of a criminal felony for the man the party likes to think of as Al Capone and Jack the Ripper rolled into one. It was a highly selective prosecution by a partisan district attorney who has been content to let muggers and thieves walk free on the streets of his city, but who, with the help of a complaisant judge, brought down the full force of the law on the perpetrator of an accounting deception.

The case would surely never have been brought if Mr. Trump weren’t the accused. Yet the former president himself is no innocent victim. Despite the colorful efforts of some his more unhinged supporters to use the verdict to enshrine him in the martyrology of subjects of state oppression, alongside Nelson Mandela, Alexander Solzenhitsyn and, yes, Jesus Christ, we should acknowledge that it is his own behavior that has enabled his enemies and weaponized their efforts. Throughout his long business and shorter political career he has skirted the blurry edges of norms and rules of fairness, decency and even legality. He is where he is now because he did something sordid and then a jury found he misrepresented in legally binding documents his efforts to prevent it becoming known in a way that might hurt his political prospects. Given his astonishing record of good fortune, he may gain more in political benefit than he loses from the cost of bearing the label of felon, a label likely to be erased by future appeals.

But it doesn’t matter that Mr. Trump is an imperfect object of our pity. The greater damage wrought by this frivolous trial and conviction is to the nation itself. It marks a further steep step down in the march toward the annihilation of the legitimacy of the vital institutions of this country.

Through all the many miscarriages of justice, flawed decisions and corrupt jurists in their history, Americans have managed to retain a basic faith that ultimately justice can still be administered independent of political control. Democrats should understand that when it is abused like this, that faith is dissolved and the rules abandoned. They may be rejoicing now, but the whirlwind they will reap by reducing the law to the status of a weapon in the hands of the dominant political power is fatal for them too—and for the American system of government.

Trump is a classic white collar criminal and racketeer case.  He hides behind a bunch of cutouts like a Russian gangster and gives them little codewords and hand signals when he wants them to commit a crime on his behalf.  You people are crying because you little idol finally got caught by a clever prosecutor just like the one who caught Al Capone and sent him up the river for tax evasion. 

The jury did their job...nobody finds someone guilty because they are of a different political opinion...Trump tempted fate with his crimes for decades and he finally got caught.  Stop apologizing for him.  

[grandjean87]

On 6/3/2024 at 2:14 PM, toonkee said:

But the earth looks really flat dude. How can this be?

What was presented in evidence at trial ended up showing w/overwhelming testimony and forensics, that it was all about the election.  Ş 17-152 "...two or more persons who conspire to promote or prevent the election of any person to a public office by unlawful means and which conspiracy is acted upon..." and combined with Ş 175.10:

"A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree
when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof"...

I know when you listen to who you want to hear things can get confusing, but it's really easy to understand.  All 12 jurors agreed on 34 counts where the two statutes were tied together. All of them because it was all about the election from Pecker's testimony on and through the forensics on the payments and records.  

The FECA, NY Tax fraud, and the side false records law (NY) are all underpinnings of the direct ties of the two statues.  

Appeal?  That's in another thread. 

[Akkula]

On 6/3/2024 at 2:32 PM, bornontheblue said:

Can you provide a list of the exact combination of crimes he committed to raise the original crime to a felony?  Can you provide the exact list the jury voted on? The judge won't provide it but maybe @Poorohman knows. 

CPA's have no obligation to audit their tax clients records dumbass. If my client tells me its legal fees, and there is no obvious evidence that is readily apparent that it isn't legal fees it's getting deducted as legal fees. 

 

He committed tax evasion by putting personal expense (paying off porn star) as a business expense, no?  This was done willfully as he is a notorious tax cheater, no?  Isn't that why he is "so smart?"  "Only the little people pay taxes", type?

[Akkula]

Anyone with a brain can see that Trump should have served time just like Michael Cohen did for the election crimes.  Cohen went to prison for campaign finance crimes and Trump should have joined him.  Anyone listening to the testimony of this trial realizes Trump go a major pass.  David Pecker nailed him to the wall!

[UNLV2001]

https://x.com/JohnWDean/status/1797731457072533700

 

[retrofade]

On 6/3/2024 at 10:37 AM, bornontheblue said:

From a Jury pool that is 95 percent democrat. 

How would you feel about Biden being tried by a 12 person jury in  Leakesville Mississippi. It would be a trial of his peers right? 

Where did Trump commit the crimes he was convicted of? 

[soupslam1]

Another MWC OT thread gone tribal. Lololololololol 

[818SUDSFan]

On 6/2/2024 at 5:06 PM, FresnoFacts said:

Trump makes it Clear: he not only Capitalizes many words that shouldn't be Capitalized, he doesn't know Shit about the US Supreme Court's Authority to Involve Itself in the workings of State courts.

[grandjean87]

On 6/3/2024 at 2:52 PM, UNLV2001 said:

https://x.com/JohnWDean/status/1797731457072533700

 

I think I covered than more concisely. lol

[RSF]

On 6/3/2024 at 4:05 PM, soupslam1 said:

Another MWC OT thread gone tribal. Lololololololol 

Then you should fit right in.

[818SUDSFan]

On 6/3/2024 at 8:07 AM, Wyoguns said:

Exactly why I can’t believe anyone would fall for the whole rigged trial and jury argument!  We are living in some crazy times!

Most responsible from my viewpoint is how badly our country has allowed its public education systems to deteriorate. Insufficient financial support, social promotion, excessive remote "learning" and other factors are probably to blame but the bottom line is that the average HS graduate - to say nothing of the average college attendee who is allowed to graduate despite just a skeletal knowledge of civics and the workings of government - is too ignorant to realize that half of what Trump says is pure unadulterated bullshit.

[bornontheblue]

On 6/3/2024 at 3:01 PM, retrofade said:

Where did Trump commit the crimes he was convicted of? 

You have a right to a change in Venue if you cannot put together a jury of unbiased individuals. Again the judge blocked  this. 

Go get em Mississippi 

 

 

[azgreg]

 

[bornontheblue]

On 6/3/2024 at 3:13 PM, grandjean87 said:

I think I covered than more concisely. lol

No you didn't. You like to think of yourself as deep thinker offering remarkable insight but you cherry pick the data you want, ignore the data you don't want, and rely on the opinions of other idiots who all just wanted the same outcome you did anyways. You ignore the anybody else who offers opinions you don't want to be true. You confuse analyses with justification old man, 

 

 

[Akkula]

On 6/3/2024 at 3:33 PM, bornontheblue said:

You have a right to a change in Venue if you cannot put together a jury of unbiased individuals. Again the judge blocked  this. 

Go get em Mississippi 

 

 

I am sure every felon in the Big House across the country has the same sob story.  The judge was biased, the jury was rigged, the prosecutor was conflicted.  Republicans used to mock those people!  Go to Alabama and commit if you want to have juries who will let you get away with murder!
 

 

[Akkula]

Here is what Cohen went to jail for.  Please tell me there was no underlying crime in this conspiracy!!!  The biggest question was why was "Individual 1" not charged by the feds and they let Cohen be the fall guy?  Yes, the system is rigged...in FAVOR of Trump!!!  Biden and Garland were too scared and just let this criminality pass in hopes Trump would just go away!

Trump was probably guilty of tax evasion in how he booked this payoff to the porn star as a business expense.  He worked with Pecker to make an unlawful contribution for which Pecker needed immunity.  Trump also made an excess contribution that was not reported with his payoff.  All felonies that were not charged by the DOJ.

Southern District of New York | Michael Cohen Pleads Guilty In Manhattan Federal Court To Eight Counts, Including Criminal Tax Evasion And Campaign Finance Violations | United States Department of Justice

 

 

Count	Charge	Maximum Penalty
1-5	Tax Evasion	5 years in prison
6	Making false statements to a federally insured bank	30 years in prison
7	Causing an unlawful corporate contribution	5 years in prison
8	Making an excessive campaign contribution	5 years in prison

[grandjean87]

On 6/3/2024 at 2:52 PM, UNLV2001 said:

https://x.com/JohnWDean/status/1797731457072533700

 

In case visual stuff didn't cut it, here is from 06.01.24 an Amicus podcast w/guest Ryan Goodman explaining the charged verdict. Edited for a little brevity and formatting w/only a few (added explanations):

"...There was no way for them to reach a jury, a guilty verdict without passing through a box that they had to check off.

And that box was, this was election fraud. So this is an election fraud case...

...They had to say to themselves that Donald Trump, beyond a reasonable doubt, caused business documents to be falsified.

And those are the 34 counts with one check plus one check entered into the record two different ways. Falsified business records with an intent to commit or conceal another crime. (Ş 175.10)

There’s only one other crime. That predicate crime is a New York election law, which is to use unlawful means to promote a candidate in an election. (Ş 17-152)

And that’s it. So it’s falsifying business records with the intent to commit or conceal another crime.  That other crime is unlawful means of promoting a candidate in the 2016 election.

What does unlawful means mean? That’s where the jury did not need to be unanimous.  There are three alternative pathways up the hill.

And the three alternative pathways, or unlawful means, could have been one.

Federal election law violations in the form of, for example, corporate giving to a candidate disallowed, or giving in excess of an individual’s maximum disallowed. And the $130,000 payment that Michael Cohen made was thousands of, not thousands, maybe thousands, hundreds of times greater than his maximum amount.

So that’s one federal election.             

Second is tax fraud. They grossed him up in order to claim it as income. (this is about paying Cohen a lot of extra $$ to offset his increased tax liability) 

It wasn’t income. So the tax forms that they signed were fraudulent.

And then the third is other false business records, of which there were a whole menu of options, including the invoice that the parent company for National Enquirer made, the false bank records that Cohen created to create these shell companies, et cetera.

But it’s any one of those three counts, and the jury does not have to be unanimous, based on very longstanding New York law, on how these rules work in terms of the unanimity requirement."

https://slate.com/transcripts/U1k3WlY0ejM4VDE1WCswMXJ4T0xybnB4ZzdiNEY2ODlrSHBwYkRRS2RTRT0=