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son of a gun

Female is the latest school shooter; 3 kids and 2 adults dead in elementary school in Tennessee.

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On 3/30/2023 at 2:15 PM, sactowndog said:

If you really want to get to the root cause you can start with Citzens United and the galactically stupid decisions around dark money that have allowed politicians to be bought to a greater degree than ever.   

we were not doing great before citizens untied lol

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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On 3/30/2023 at 11:19 AM, happycamper said:

we were not doing great before citizens untied lol

True but it has and will continue to make things much worse and impossible to solve problems.  We did not have near the degree of gridlock we have now.  

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On 3/30/2023 at 10:44 AM, sactowndog said:

I’m not sure you can get to a single root cause.   I think it is a combination of a health care system that deals poorly with mental illness, a media that drives polarization and an access to guns that makes it simple to act out.   All 3 play a part.   

My proposed solutions:

-Fully subsidize mental health initiatives 

-At least one class in K-12 devoted to analytical studies of media, politicians, and the rhetorical fallacies and motivations of such a product

-Media and politicians must disclose the financial backing of entities (advertisements excluded since it is explicitly there) and in a better way than what we have now

-Better background databases, longer wait (cooling) times, gun shows being liable for any private non-FFL sales at their shows (to force them to better vet vendors), mandatory weapons and safety training prior to purchase (available for free, paid for by the existing taxation rates of firearm, ammunition and equipment sales, even though it hurts conservation and wildlife funding)

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On 3/30/2023 at 12:18 PM, Rosegreen said:

You frame all your arguments by appealing to emotion in your quest to repeal the second amendment. 
 

The second amendment isn’t even a leading cause of death among children according to the Journal of pediatrics. 

Piles of dead kids is an emotional topic, no?

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On 3/30/2023 at 2:28 PM, East Coast Aztec said:

My proposed solutions:

-Fully subsidize mental health initiatives 

-At least one class in K-12 devoted to analytical studies of media, politicians, and the rhetorical fallacies and motivations of such a product

-Media and politicians must disclose the financial backing of entities (advertisements excluded since it is explicitly there) and in a better way than what we have now

-Better background databases, longer wait (cooling) times, gun shows being liable for any private non-FFL sales at their shows (to force them to better vet vendors), mandatory weapons and safety training prior to purchase (available for free, paid for by the existing taxation rates of firearm, ammunition and equipment sales, even though it hurts conservation and wildlife funding)

you could split taxation of firearms into large caliber rifle and shotgun vs handgun and small caliber rifle (including .223 in this)

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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On 3/30/2023 at 11:45 AM, happycamper said:

you could split taxation of firearms into large caliber rifle and shotgun vs handgun and small caliber rifle (including .223 in this)

I am guessing the former is to keep a bit more funding towards conservation and wildlife and shift most of the costs for mandatory training to the latter?  Depending on the cost breakout, that would work for me.

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On 3/30/2023 at 11:40 AM, Akkula said:

Piles of dead kids is an emotional topic, no?

The topic is gun control. You are using emotional appeal to repeal the 2nd Amendment. Even though publications have noted it’s not a leading cause of death among children. 
 

If you were really concerned about the pile of dead kids, I’d think you would want to eliminate the leading cause, no? 

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On 3/30/2023 at 2:54 PM, East Coast Aztec said:

I am guessing the former is to keep a bit more funding towards conservation and wildlife and shift most of the costs for mandatory training to the latter?  Depending on the cost breakout, that would work for me.

Yep, that's how I would do it.  In my mind pistols and .223 are there for killing people and most other rounds are there for hunting. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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On 3/30/2023 at 2:55 PM, Rosegreen said:

The topic is gun control. You are using emotional appeal to repeal the 2nd Amendment. Even though publications have noted it’s not a leading cause of death among children. 
 

If you were really concerned about the pile of dead kids, I’d think you would want to eliminate the leading cause, no? 

I mean the whole thread is an emotional appeal to guns vs an emotional appeal to dead kids. guns just matter more emotionally to people

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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On 3/30/2023 at 12:00 PM, happycamper said:

Yep, that's how I would do it.  In my mind pistols and .223 are there for killing people and most other rounds are there for hunting. 

I always tell folks that I train shooting on what the weapons I have are for, and yes, anything lower than a 44 handgun, and 223 and certain 308 rifles, particularly semiauto are for hunting humans.  I don't feel the need to BS people with some weird slough off of the utility of firearms.  

I always love to see some of the reactions when I flat out tell it like that, but I think it puts perspective and respect on the weapons.

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On 3/30/2023 at 1:01 PM, happycamper said:

I mean the whole thread is an emotional appeal to guns vs an emotional appeal to dead kids. guns just matter more emotionally to people

Exactly.  I mean if it was just the gun nut cons blowing each other away, I would be all for guns....hell I would buy them a few.  The problem is just like with Covid is that the rest of us have to live with these troglodytes.  They don't understand that their choices impact us and they only think of themselves. 

The sad part is that there is really no use for guns.  It is mostly just toxic masculinity to keep them.  There are plenty of places where people don't have guns and they manage not to get raped and murdered all day.  If we want to talk about appeals to emotion, what about the constant fear peddling that is done.  "Grab your guns because you are under constant threat by criminals and the evil government!"  If you don't have guns coming out of every orifice they are going to arrest you and send you to a concentration camp to be executed!

Edit....I guess I would be okay with hunting rifles/shotguns...etc.

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On 3/30/2023 at 3:11 PM, Akkula said:

Exactly.  I mean if it was just the gun nut cons blowing each other away, I would be all for guns....hell I would buy them a few.  The problem is just like with Covid is that the rest of us have to live with these troglodytes.  They don't understand that their choices impact us and they only think of themselves. 

The sad part is that there is really no use for guns.  It is mostly just toxic masculinity to keep them.  There are plenty of places where people don't have guns and they manage not to get raped and murdered all day.  If we want to talk about appeals to emotion, what about the constant fear peddling that is done.  "Grab your guns because you are under constant threat by criminals and the evil government!"  If you don't have guns coming out of every orifice they are going to arrest you and send you to a concentration camp to be executed!

Edit....I guess I would be okay with hunting rifles/shotguns...etc.

What? there are all kinds of uses for guns. Hell we can still all keep guns with a lot of the restrictions proposed. A big reason why we don't see headway though is the emotional response to guns. It's "any restriction is a problem" emotional reaction. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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On 3/30/2023 at 8:33 AM, Bob said:

God destroyed two cities because of sodomy. I suppose just being gay is not a sin, but I don't think God approves of sodomy.

 

And not sure cutting off your dick is respecting the temple God blessed you with.

K_gifs yes sayings sassy robert de niro expressions K ok okay alright bickle KK GIF

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On 3/30/2023 at 12:01 PM, happycamper said:

I mean the whole thread is an emotional appeal to guns vs an emotional appeal to dead kids. guns just matter more emotionally to people

To an extent, there’s been evidence and statistics that are for guns in this thread though.
 

Look, the argument is that there’s “piles of dead kids”, we got to get rid of guns. It’s an emotional fallacy, it’s not even the leading cause of deaths among children.
 

If the objective truly was to save and protect children’s lives, then why is the leading cause (not guns) of deaths being ignored by virtually everyone? 

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On 3/30/2023 at 2:00 PM, Rosegreen said:

To an extent, there’s been evidence and statistics that are for guns in this thread though.
 

Look, the argument is that there’s “piles of dead kids”, we got to get rid of guns. It’s an emotional fallacy, it’s not even the leading cause of deaths among children.
 

If the objective truly was to save and protect children’s lives, then why is the leading cause (not guns) of deaths being ignored by virtually everyone? 

What are the others?  Accidents have to be up there, probably suicide too.  Drugs?

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On 3/30/2023 at 2:07 PM, Rosegreen said:

Opioids and Fentanyl are the #1 cause and it’s not even close. 

Another tricky one, with a bunch of folks thinking either "price of freedom" or "do X and it solves the problem".  We gotta get away from the simplicity or nothing.  These are really complex issues that we are dealing with.  The free tactic of communication can help though.  Gotta talk and be willing to listen, and pick up on the cues that someone may be going down a bad road.  Something that I don't think is really happening enough.

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