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The "UN"-Official SDSU to the Pac thread.

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On 7/10/2023 at 7:47 PM, Wyobraska said:

I don't understand your argument on acceptance rate for how well USC and UCLA will do in the B1G.  There will always be plenty of people interested in USC football if they are halfway good.  

T Shirt fans are a big part of it.  

The other point on “T shirt” fans is often they have a relative who went to the school.  I’m a T-shirt Fresno fan because of my Dad and sister.  I’m a T-shirt Trojan fan because my Grandparents, Mom and nephew played.  My other sister went to UCLA….  

So we have some connection to PAC-12 schools.  I have cousins who attended Cal and Stanford.  But in my kids and their cousin generation only one went to a CA PAC-12 school…. 

instead they attended 

USC (played football), UOP (played water polo), Butler (played hoops), TCU, Washington, Long Beach State (2) 

the result is our family is much more likely to watch Butler basketball than UCLA basketball.  My brother in law watches TCU football with other dads whose kids went to TCU.  Those family relationships that often create T Shirt fans no longer exist.  Funny thing about being a parent   When your child gets rejected it impacts your fandom… 

 

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On 7/11/2023 at 7:15 AM, RebelAlliance said:

They'll be fine Northwestern>USC and UCLA=Michigan. 

Also, admissions selectivity is much more complex than just acceptance rates. 

Look at SDSU.  They have that very low acceptance rate because tons of kids bound for Fullerton or Bakersfield take the chance and check the SDSU box.  But despite that 34% acceptance rate, does anyone really think they end up with a freshman class anywhere near the level of the tier of B1G schools below Michigan (Wisconsin, Illinois, OSU, Minnesota, Purdue)?

According to the latest data, the ACT score range of SDSU freshmen is 23-29 which is identical to that of Michigan State.

SAT you ask? Michigan State's range is 1100-1320 and Iowa's 1130-1350; SDSU's = 1130-1340. (Nebraska's average was 1240.)

I haven't checked the B1G schools you mention. My point is simply that SDSU's recent classes have scored at the same level as the least prestigious B1G schools. Your mileage may vary but that's pretty impressive to me.

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On 7/11/2023 at 1:38 PM, 818SUDSFan said:

According to the latest data, the ACT score range of SDSU freshmen is 23-29 which is identical to that of Michigan State.

SAT you ask? Michigan State's range is 1100-1320 and Iowa's 1130-1350; SDSU's = 1130-1340. (Nebraska's average was 1240.)

I haven't checked the B1G schools you mention. My point is simply that SDSU's recent classes have scored at the same level as the least prestigious B1G schools. Your mileage may vary but that's pretty impressive to me.

You're correct. But that proves my point that acceptance rate is not the sole determinant of selectivity since MSU tskes in the same freshman cpasses despite an 84% acceptance rate. At the four that I mentioned, that range is along the lines of 28/29-32/33, which puts them at or above the non ucla/cal campuses despite having higher acceptance rates. 

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On 7/11/2023 at 11:46 AM, RebelAlliance said:

You're correct. But that proves my point that acceptance rate is not the sole determinant of selectivity since MSU tskes in the same freshman cpasses despite an 84% acceptance rate. At the four that I mentioned, that range is along the lines of 28/29-32/33, which puts them at or above the non ucla/cal campuses despite having higher acceptance rates. 

I've always looked at the ratio of enrolled:accepted.  Better aligns with the notion of where folks had wanted to go, especially with highly applied to schools.

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On 7/10/2023 at 6:50 PM, sactowndog said:

Just follow up a little further.  It will be interesting how USC and UCLA fare in the Big. Yes they are AAU schools but they don’t fit the BIG model.  Using the schools with the highest undergrad acceptance rate:

let’s take the BIG top ~ 60% in pop 

Penn State 51% acceptance rate 

Illinois 59.7% acceptance rate

Ohio State 57% acceptance rate 

Michigan State 84.7% acceptance rate

 

now compare NorCal and SoCal  ~60% PAC population 

SoCal

UCLA 12.4% acceptance rate

SDSU  32.1% acceptance rate.  
 

NorCal 

Cal 15% Acceptance rate 

just for reference 

SJSU 85% acceptance rate

Fresno 59% acceptance rate

Unlike their other states, In SoCal the BIG won’t have a local university with even a moderate undergrad acceptance rate. 

The PAC would be closer to the BIG model by adding SDSU but still almost 20% below the BIG’s worst state. 

The BIG 12 if they added Fresno and SDSU would have a reasonable chance of taking over much of the state in my opinion.  If you accept like the IVY League you are going to have IVY like affinity and ultimately TV ratings as us old guys die out.  

US News and World Report shows Fresno as 97% acceptance rate.  Can you imagine Fresno turning away 41% of applicants and how much drool that group of rejects would produce collectively?   

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On 7/11/2023 at 11:38 AM, 818SUDSFan said:

According to the latest data, the ACT score range of SDSU freshmen is 23-29 which is identical to that of Michigan State.

SAT you ask? Michigan State's range is 1100-1320 and Iowa's 1130-1350; SDSU's = 1130-1340. (Nebraska's average was 1240.)

I haven't checked the B1G schools you mention. My point is simply that SDSU's recent classes have scored at the same level as the least prestigious B1G schools. Your mileage may vary but that's pretty impressive to me.

Guys…. The point of this conversation isn’t an academic dick measuring contest.  The point is when you send out a very high percentage of rejection letters it hurts your affinity scores.    Funny enough, rejecting someone or their kids does not endear a an entity to the kids or parents.   

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On 7/11/2023 at 2:40 PM, sactowndog said:

Guys…. The point of this conversation isn’t an academic dick measuring contest.  The point is when you send out a very high percentage of rejection letters it hurts your affinity scores.    Funny enough, rejecting someone or their kids does not endear a an entity to the kids or parents.   

If the intake cohort is similar between two schools, the numbers are immaterial regarding affinity.  It is more an issue with a lot of people applying to one school more than another.  A lot of good students in CA, so a lot of rejection letters.  Some people can understand that and still be a fan of a team you grew up with.  A frequent instance in Big Ten and SEC land.  

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On 7/11/2023 at 1:44 PM, AztecMD said:

US News and World Report shows Fresno as 97% acceptance rate.  Can you imagine Fresno turning away 41% of applicants and how much drool that group of rejects would produce collectively?   
 

 

It’s always amusing to see you talk about your Superiority.  
 

Let’s see where you might rank in CA using average SAT scores…..  

not worth even looking up….

Stanford, Cal, UCLA, Pomona College, Claremont McKenna College, Harvey Mudd, MIT, UCSD

Okay I will at least check….

Pitzer 1410, Scripps 1390, UCSB 1355, Occidental 1370, Santa Clara 1360, Loyola Marymount 1340, Pepperdine 1320, Cal Ploy SLO 1320, UC Irvine 1310, UCDavis 1280, USD 1280, UC Santa Cruz 1285,  USF 1233, UOP 1210, University Redlands 1210, UC Riverside 1180, Long Beach State 1130, 

I’m stopping at 25 because it’s not worth my time to further point out the comparison……


SDSU 1110

apologies to other SDSU alum but the Faux snobbery from Aztec MD gets old when his school can’t even make the top 25 in the state.    

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On 7/11/2023 at 2:54 PM, East Coast Aztec said:

If the intake cohort is similar between two schools, the numbers are immaterial regarding affinity.  It is more an issue with a lot of people applying to one school more than another.  A lot of good students in CA, so a lot of rejection letters.  Some people can understand that and still be a fan of a team you grew up with.  A frequent instance in Big Ten and SEC land.  

At some issue yes this point is true, but when your Kids are 4.0 and have good test scores the parents get pissed. 

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On 7/11/2023 at 2:40 PM, sactowndog said:

Guys…. The point of this conversation isn’t an academic dick measuring contest.  The point is when you send out a very high percentage of rejection letters it hurts your affinity scores.

"Affinity scores?"

That's a term creatively developed by THE Fresno State University, amirite?

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On 7/11/2023 at 3:40 PM, sactowndog said:

 

It’s always amusing to see you talk about your Superiority.  
 

Let’s see where you might rank in CA using average SAT scores…..  

not worth even looking up….

Stanford, Cal, UCLA, Pomona College, Claremont McKenna College, Harvey Mudd, MIT, UCSD

Okay I will at least check….

Pitzer 1410, Scripps 1390, UCSB 1355, Occidental 1370, Santa Clara 1360, Loyola Marymount 1340, Pepperdine 1320, Cal Ploy SLO 1320, UC Irvine 1310, UCDavis 1280, USD 1280, UC Santa Cruz 1285,  USF 1233, UOP 1210, University Redlands 1210, UC Riverside 1180, Long Beach State 1130, 

I’m stopping at 25 because it’s not worth my time to further point out the comparison……


SDSU 1110

apologies to other SDSU alum but the Faux snobbery from Aztec MD gets old when his school can’t even make the top 25 in the state.    

You do realize that for the past few years every public university in California hasn't accepted standardized test scores and most privates are test optional which skews their average scores much higher.  The only way to compare is by the unweighted GPA for enrolled freshmen the schools report to the federal government and that's not really fair because I'd argue that your average enrollee at Cal or UCLA likely took more AP classes than your average enrollee at SDSU.  

SDSU's was 3.87, Cal's was 3.90, UCLA's was 3.93, Stanford was 3.95, Long Beach State was 3.74, San Jose State was 3.55, Fresno hasn't disclose but the last time they did a couple of years ago it was 3.50.  Again these are unweighted GPA's and if they were weighted I'd bet SDSU would be around a 4.0, Cal and UCLA would be roughly 4.3-4.4, Stanford 4.5+, LBSU 3.9, SJSU 3.7, and Fresno 3.6-3.7.  UCSB reported a weighted GPA for last year of 4.29 and UCSD of 4.16, neither reported an unweighted GPA.

Also, the average enrolled GPA's are sensitive to majors that are impacted.  For example, a friend of one of my kids was rejected from Cal Poly SLO's engineering department this year with a 4.9 weighted GPA and a 1580 SAT but he'll be starting at Harvard next month.   

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On 7/11/2023 at 7:51 PM, 818SUDSFan said:

"Affinity scores?"

That's a term creatively developed by THE Fresno State University, amirite?

No it’s a marketing term based on affinity.  And no I never attended Fresno State so if they used it I wouldn’t know.  

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On 7/11/2023 at 9:15 PM, Fowl said:

You do realize that for the past few years every public university in California hasn't accepted standardized test scores and most privates are test optional which skews their average scores much higher.  The only way to compare is by the unweighted GPA for enrolled freshmen the schools report to the federal government and that's not really fair because I'd argue that your average enrollee at Cal or UCLA likely took more AP classes than your average enrollee at SDSU.  

SDSU's was 3.87, Cal's was 3.90, UCLA's was 3.93, Stanford was 3.95, Long Beach State was 3.74, San Jose State was 3.55, Fresno hasn't disclose but the last time they did a couple of years ago it was 3.50.  Again these are unweighted GPA's and if they were weighted I'd bet SDSU would be around a 4.0, Cal and UCLA would be roughly 4.3-4.4, Stanford 4.5+, LBSU 3.9, SJSU 3.7, and Fresno 3.6-3.7.  UCSB reported a weighted GPA for last year of 4.29 and UCSD of 4.16, neither reported an unweighted GPA.

Also, the average enrolled GPA's are sensitive to majors that are impacted.  For example, a friend of one of my kids was rejected from Cal Poly SLO's engineering department this year with a 4.9 weighted GPA and a 1580 SAT but he'll be starting at Harvard next month.   

Interesting.  I did not though I expect weighted GPA’s would be similar.  Though standardized tests do allow a fairer comparison.  But I would be happy to see where SDSU ranked among the CA based UC’s, WCC and SCIAC schools and select CSU schools.   Too be honest, I don’t really care other than being tired of @AztecMD faux snobbery.  And yes not surprised about CPSLO as that school is a tremendous school.  
 

But if you have a better metric happy to hear it…. 

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On 7/11/2023 at 7:57 PM, East Coast Aztec said:

The athletes need the spaces...  

so very true.  Heard an interesting article on the percent of Harvard admissions reserved for athletes.   Have some personal experience as Penn recruited my daughter.   But athletes absolutely get a disproportionate share of admission spots.  

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On 7/11/2023 at 7:51 PM, 818SUDSFan said:

"Affinity scores?"

That's a term creatively developed by THE Fresno State University, amirite?

 

Confucius say sons of Fresno give high affinity scores to schools that take them out of home.

gettyimages-1474196070-2048x2048.jpg.b82305fcbc1370452bc8d00fc00a0598.jpg

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On 7/11/2023 at 4:40 PM, sactowndog said:

Guys…. The point of this conversation isn’t an academic dick measuring contest.  The point is when you send out a very high percentage of rejection letters it hurts your affinity scores.    Funny enough, rejecting someone or their kids does not endear a an entity to the kids or parents.   

Michigan rejects four out of every five applicants, yet they have an ocean of t-shirt fans.  How many Catholics root for Notre Dame knowing full well their idiot spawn will never step foot on that campus?

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On 7/12/2023 at 7:51 AM, RebelAlliance said:

Michigan rejects four out of every five applicants, yet they have an ocean of t-shirt fans.  How many Catholics root for Notre Dame knowing full well their idiot spawn will never step foot on that campus?

rudy sees GIF

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