The "UN"-Official SDSU to the Pac thread.

[modestobulldog]

On 7/9/2023 at 10:05 PM, 415hawaiiboy said:

Very good points.  I’ve done some business in the Valley and what to challenge the Whole Valley argument. 

Devils Advocate questions:

1) Fresno tries and I think successfully brands themselves as the team for the “V” for Valley, how much does that resonate the further you get from Fresno?  For my point, I spent quite a bit of time in the Northern part of the Valley: Stockton/Lodi and some in Turlock, Modesto, Salida, I did not get the natural feel of Fresno State Bulldogs country (looking at bumper stickers and license plates).  For SacTown/Folsom and more northern Cal (Yolo, Chico) has more of a Boise, Reno, and smattering of Cal and SJSU feel (why didn’t David Fales go to Fresno vs SJSU?  He’s from farmland Salinas; not the Valley). The Valley is pretty diverse.  Like Stockton is more like Oakland and Antioch.  So how far does the reach go?

2) The Valley is a cool pocket (up to 4 million people) with a Big12 flyover vibe, but they are there. Is the Valley just too far from its cultural brethren in the Big12 and thus landlocked?  

3) I’ve been telling my Pac12 friends that they need to double down on California and Fresno State would be a great add.   Drivable games, rivalries.  But fans at schools like Cal, don’t really care about the Pac12’s survival, only that they get their golden ticket out to the Big10.  It is unlikely a promotion to the Pac12 will be that much of a promotion with the core schools gone.  So my question is, what kind of political power does Fresno State have in California to push their agenda?  Say, SDSU gets in - that rips the Cal State bandaid.  I see how badly the fanbase wants to be in a power conference.

 

I’ll take your answers off line.  Hoping for a sociological, historical perspective.

I can speak to that, I have lived in Modesto over 30 years.  I have met a lot of people who went to Fresno State, have friends and family who attended, or are familiar due to local athletes playing at Fresno State.  My hunch is due to budget considerations and efficiency, Stockton to Bakersfield has led to a valuable and productive pipeline of athletes to Fresno State.  Fresno State definitely has a presence, but obviously not as strong as Fresno county.  Although anecdotal, I started attending a new church a couple years ago.  I went to an over 50’s Christmas party and wore my ugly Fresno State Christmas sweater, I was surprised how many people knew we were going to the Jimmy Kimmel bowl, our opponent, QB Haener, etc. A move to P5 would definitely raise enthusiasm in the surrounding valley communities.  Although, it does appear farming has become more lucrative this past generation and I suspect more of those kids are selecting UC education instead of Fresno State or Turkey Tech.

[SparkysDad]

On 7/7/2023 at 12:28 PM, utenation said:

It takes time to get your recruiting budget up and overall football expenses up. Coaching salaries, facilities up, nutrition programs, sports medicine all this takes time to improve on. 
 

It will take 3-4 years of solid recruiting classes to improve depth and overall talent to handle a whole season of P5 games, not just 1 or 2  a year. 
 

I’ve never seen a G5 program step up within a year. It takes time. 
 

I’d like to see SDSU. I’ll believe it when I see it. 

I'm probably over-simplifying, but that's kind of my point. If all things were equal (Utah, TCU and SDSU all being G5's and going to a P5 conference simultaneously) my sense is that SDSU would hold a recruiting advantage. I agree that both Utah and TCU were much better programs than SDSU prior to their promotion to a P5 conference.

But, one good coach and staff hire for the Aztecs - that they can financially hold onto given P5 money - and I'd give the recruiting nod to SDSU and I believe it would happen quickly with a lot of California/western US recruits. I will say that SDSU in their "Sleeping Giant" era did NOT recruit to their expected level even as a MWC member, so time will definitely tell. 

Will SDSU do better than TCU's 11-14 record the first two years in the Big XII? Without USC/UCLA, I could see SDSU having better conference results. Will they then replicate TCU's next two years in the Big XII at 23-3? Almost definitely not, but I will say that IMHO SDSU could have more consistent long term success as a P5 program, especially in what I consider a weaker PAC. Regardless, my belief is that, due to recruiting advantages, SDSU will get a bigger "lift" than either Utah and/or TCU by becoming a member of the PAC, especially with the absence of USC/UCLA in conference. I don't think casual PAC fans will care as much about USC/UCLA's performance in the Big 10 and SDSU to a degree will fill that void. That's really the whole basis for SDSU's consideration to the PAC.  

[MissionTrails]

On 7/10/2023 at 10:21 AM, SparkysDad said:

I'm probably over-simplifying, but that's kind of my point. If all things were equal (Utah, TCU and SDSU all being G5's and going to a P5 conference simultaneously) my sense is that SDSU would hold a recruiting advantage. I agree that both Utah and TCU were much better programs than SDSU prior to their promotion to a P5 conference.

But, one good coach and staff hire for the Aztecs - that they can financially hold onto given P5 money - and I'd give the recruiting nod to SDSU and I believe it would happen quickly with a lot of California/western US recruits. I will say that SDSU in their "Sleeping Giant" era did NOT recruit to their expected level even as a MWC member, so time will definitely tell. 

Will SDSU do better than TCU's 11-14 record the first two years in the Big XII? Without USC/UCLA, I could see SDSU having better conference results. Will they then replicate TCU's next two years in the Big XII at 23-3? Almost definitely not, but I will say that IMHO SDSU could have more consistent long term success as a P5 program, especially in what I consider a weaker PAC. Regardless, my belief is that, due to recruiting advantages, SDSU will get a bigger "lift" than either Utah and/or TCU by becoming a member of the PAC, especially with the absence of USC/UCLA in conference. I don't think casual PAC fans will care as much about USC/UCLA's performance in the Big 10 and SDSU to a degree will fill that void. That's really the whole basis for SDSU's consideration to the PAC.  

I hope you're right. 

[Wyovanian]

On 7/9/2023 at 6:23 PM, Headbutt said:

And Poke fans are thinking “dang, where do they find these petite women?”  

Well, we know where to find the hairy ones... Just head south on 287.

[Headbutt]

On 7/10/2023 at 3:34 PM, Wyovanian said:

Well, we know where to find the hairy ones... Just head south on 287.

No worries.  Feel free to round em' up and drive 'em back north come fall.

[sactowndog]

On 7/9/2023 at 10:05 PM, 415hawaiiboy said:

Very good points.  I’ve done some business in the Valley and what to challenge the Whole Valley argument. 

Devils Advocate questions:

1) Fresno tries and I think successfully brands themselves as the team for the “V” for Valley, how much does that resonate the further you get from Fresno?  For my point, I spent quite a bit of time in the Northern part of the Valley: Stockton/Lodi and some in Turlock, Modesto, Salida, I did not get the natural feel of Fresno State Bulldogs country (looking at bumper stickers and license plates).  For SacTown/Folsom and more northern Cal (Yolo, Chico) has more of a Boise, Reno, and smattering of Cal and SJSU feel (why didn’t David Fales go to Fresno vs SJSU?  He’s from farmland Salinas; not the Valley). The Valley is pretty diverse.  Like Stockton is more like Oakland and Antioch.  So how far does the reach go?

Its hard to measure for sure because Modesto is in the SAC DMA and the DMA is so geographically large that no one team could own it.  Most of the data is on the DMA level which for SAC is useless.  It’s why I used Sac Metro and not SAC DMA data.  I do think some items do give you hints however…. 

Both Modesto and Stockton are considered local admits to Fresno State despite the presence of Cal State Stanislaus.  Fresno has historically pulled from these areas given the Ag nature of these towns.   Stockton is a bit of a tweener between an ag town and a delta town however so one can put a bigger question mark on Stockton.     

Fresno also has radio affiliates in both towns with the largest sports radio stations in the area.  It seems unlikely the primary sports station would carry Fresno games without a decent following.  Cal would be the main competition and they have no affiliate in Stockton and a weaker station in Modesto.  They also have weaker stations in Fresno.   Cal in the 50’s had much wider coverage but have been so poor they have lost their Northern Valley following.  One reason Cal opposes Fresno in the PAC is they don’t want to compete with Fresno from Modesto to Sac.  

Lastly at 90 minutes Modesto is a reasonable drive to go to the game and get home.  Stockton is 2 hours which is a little worse.  Getting to Cal can be a couple hours or worse depending on traffic    Bad traffic and it’s 4 hours to Modesto.  Not to mention the bitch to find parking at Cal once you arrive.  

 

On 7/9/2023 at 10:05 PM, 415hawaiiboy said:

2) The Valley is a cool pocket (up to 4 million people) with a Big12 flyover vibe, but they are there. Is the Valley just too far from its cultural brethren in the Big12 and thus landlocked?  

nah I think for good and bad the valley is derisively referred to as greater Oklahoma for a reason.  Many of the residents in fact came to the Valley from Oklahoma in the dust bowl.  Also today TCU gets a huge portion of its student body from CA. BYU recruits CA heavy and as a huge Mormon following up and down the valley.   

It’s kind of like Vegas being the 5th Island, the valley is tied to Big 12 country in many ways

3) I’ve been telling my Pac12 friends that they need to double down on California and Fresno State would be a great add.   Drivable games, rivalries.  But fans at schools like Cal, don’t really care about the Pac12’s survival, only that they get their golden ticket out to the Big10.  It is unlikely a promotion to the Pac12 will be that much of a promotion with the core schools gone.  So my question is, what kind of political power does Fresno State have in California to push their agenda?  Say, SDSU gets in - that rips the Cal State bandaid.  I see how badly the fanbase wants to be in a power conference.

In CA very little.   There is a reason the Valley just recently got its first UC school and it was not placed in Fresno.  The dislike between the ag valley and powerful coastal cities is palpable   San Diego used to be a military town and grouped with the Valley but UCSD has turned it into a tech hub.  (Along with being a place everyone wants to live)   So even though yes the games are drivable most Fresno fans would prefer the Big 12.   The mutual dislike between Cal and Fresno being part of it.   Paradoxically had they added Fresno that rivalry would have been intense.

Fresno actually has more power at the Federal level with Fresno State sitting in the district of the Speaker of the House.  But the power is aligned with the Republican Midwest and Texas.  Yet more reason the Big 12 is seen as their people.  

 

I’ll take your answers off line.  Hoping for a sociological, historical perspective.

I think they are great and fair questions and happy to answer them here….. see my comments above.  Hope you found them interesting.  Others may have more thoughts and perspective.   

[415hawaiiboy]

On 7/10/2023 at 4:49 PM, sactowndog said:

 

I think they are great and fair questions and happy to answer them here….. see my comments above.  Hope you found them interesting.  Others may have more thoughts and perspective.   

Much mahalos SacTownDog.  I feel like I learned a lot from your post.  
 

Cal, my other college affiliation has dropped the ball.  I can see why they feel threatened to the point I was called a Fresno Troll, haha.  I’m not!

The current and future power of the MWC and Pac-12 must draw from California.  Fresno being one of the lynchpins.  

 

[SDSUfan]

 I feel like there are too many SDSU threads and too few UNLV threads for a MWC board off season.

 

[sactowndog]

On 7/10/2023 at 5:02 PM, 415hawaiiboy said:

Much mahalos SacTownDog.  I feel like I learned a lot from your post.  
 

Cal, my other college affiliation has dropped the ball.  I can see why they feel threatened to the point I was called a Fresno Troll, haha.  I’m not!

The current and future power of the MWC and Pac-12 must draw from California.  Fresno being one of the lynchpins.  

 

One other thing to keep in mind.  In the 1950’s Cal was free tuition and accepted a relatively high percentage of applicants.  Even by 1980 when I applied Cal accepted about 50% of students who applied.   Cal was my back-up school if Pomona College rejected me.   Now Cal accepts 14.4% of applicants and is relatively expensive.  When you are rejecting 85 out of 100 applicants it’s hard to be broadly popular in a region.   By comparison Ohio State accepts 57.2% of undergrad applicants.   

[Pelado]

On 7/7/2023 at 10:36 PM, Did I hear a WOOSH? said:

From who though? The only rumored offer near (still below) came from espn and they pulled out long ago.  If you were Stanford, cal, asu, etc would you agree to a short term streaming deal that requires the new additions partial shares to be distributed to just Or/Wa? Would you prefer to slow bleed or pull the bandaid off and start new?

Unlike some around here, I won't feign to know who the PAC will contract with for their next media deal.  I've heard various reports about several different potential providers.  Whoever it ends up being, I still think it will be similar per team to what the Big 12 is getting.

If there are new additions (SDSU, etc.), I expect them to have reduced shares for at least a couple of years but would not expect unequal distributions to the other 10 except as it applies to playoff participation (as was reported that the conference has agreed).

I'm not sure what you mean about slow bleeding or pulling band-aids.  Each school is going to do what it believes is in its best interest (assuming it has options).

[sactowndog]

On 7/10/2023 at 5:15 PM, sactowndog said:

One other thing to keep in mind.  In the 1950’s Cal was free tuition and accepted a relatively high percentage of applicants.  Even by 1980 when I applied Cal accepted about 50% of students who applied.   Cal was my back-up school if Pomona College rejected me.   Now Cal accepts 14.4% of applicants and is relatively expensive.  When you are rejecting 85 out of 100 applicants it’s hard to be broadly popular in a region.   By comparison Ohio State accepts 57.2% of undergrad applicants.   

Just follow up a little further.  It will be interesting how USC and UCLA fare in the Big. Yes they are AAU schools but they don’t fit the BIG model.  Using the schools with the highest undergrad acceptance rate:

let’s take the BIG top ~ 60% in pop 

Penn State 51% acceptance rate 

Illinois 59.7% acceptance rate

Ohio State 57% acceptance rate 

Michigan State 84.7% acceptance rate

 

now compare NorCal and SoCal  ~60% PAC population 

SoCal

UCLA 12.4% acceptance rate

SDSU  32.1% acceptance rate.  
 

NorCal 

Cal 15% Acceptance rate 

just for reference 

SJSU 85% acceptance rate

Fresno 59% acceptance rate

Unlike their other states, In SoCal the BIG won’t have a local university with even a moderate undergrad acceptance rate. 

The PAC would be closer to the BIG model by adding SDSU but still almost 20% below the BIG’s worst state. 

The BIG 12 if they added Fresno and SDSU would have a reasonable chance of taking over much of the state in my opinion.  If you accept like the IVY League you are going to have IVY like affinity and ultimately TV ratings as us old guys die out.  

[FresnoFacts]

On 7/10/2023 at 4:49 PM, sactowndog said:

Its hard to measure for sure because Modesto is in the SAC DMA and the DMA is so geographically large that no one team could own it.  Most of the data is on the DMA level which for SAC is useless.  It’s why I used Sac Metro and not SAC DMA data.  I do think some items do give you hints however…. 

Both Modesto and Stockton are considered local admits to Fresno State despite the presence of Cal State Stanislaus.  Fresno has historically pulled from these areas given the Ag nature of these towns.   Stockton is a bit of a tweener between an ag town and a delta town however so one can put a bigger question mark on Stockton.     

Fresno also has radio affiliates in both towns with the largest sports radio stations in the area.  It seems unlikely the primary sports station would carry Fresno games without a decent following.  Cal would be the main competition and they have no affiliate in Stockton and a weaker station in Modesto.  They also have weaker stations in Fresno.  

On 7/10/2023 at 5:15 PM, sactowndog said:

One other thing to keep in mind.  In the 1950’s Cal was free tuition and accepted a relatively high percentage of applicants.  Even by 1980 when I applied Cal accepted about 50% of students who applied.   Cal was my back-up school if Pomona College rejected me.   Now Cal accepts 14.4% of applicants and is relatively expensive.  When you are rejecting 85 out of 100 applicants it’s hard to be broadly popular in a region.   By comparison Ohio State accepts 57.2% of undergrad applicants.   

A bit off topic for this thread. But just to add to your comments is simply the sheer lack of San Joaquin Valley students who attend Cal, not just the low applicant acceptance.

In Fall 2022, Cal had 23,757 undergrads enrolled who were California residents (then on top of that are out of state and out of country). The number of those current 23,757 undergrads whose home county was in the San Joaquin Valley is very small:

• Fresno County - 324
• San Joaquin County - 322
• Stanislaus County - 184
• Kern County - 182
• Tulare County - 108
• Merced County - 76
• Madera County - 31
• Kings County - 22

https://pages.github.berkeley.edu/OPA/our-berkeley/map-homeloc.html

 

Now as a comparison in Fall 2022, Fresno State had among its enrolled students from Stanislaus County:

133 Modesto JC transfers

Plus students who originally enrolled as Freshmen from Stanislaus County:

• 24 from Turlock High
• 22 from Central Valley High (Ceres)
• 18 from Modesto High
• 18 from Pitman High (Turlock)
• 18 from Enochs High (Modesto)
• 17 from Ceres High
• 15 from Johansen High (Modesto)
• 11 from Patterson High
• 10 from Central Catholic (Modesto)
• 10 from Oakdale High
• plus smaller numbers from Gregori/Modesto; Downey/Modesto; Riverbank; Beyer/Modesto; Big Valley Christian (Modesto); Hughson; and other public/private schools in that area.

https://tableau.fresnostate.edu/views/Enrollment/FeederSchools?%3Aembed=y&%3AisGuestRedirectFromVizportal=y

The point is Fresno State last year had close to 350 undergrad students from Stanislaus County. Nearly twice the number who attend Cal from Stanislaus County.

 

 

[sactowndog]

On 7/10/2023 at 6:57 PM, FresnoFacts said:

A bit off topic for this thread. But just to add to your comments is simply the sheer lack of San Joaquin Valley students who attend Cal, not just the low applicant acceptance.

In Fall 2022, Cal had 23,757 undergrads enrolled who were California residents (then on top of that are out of state and out of country). The number of those current 23,757 undergrads whose home county was in the San Joaquin Valley is very small:

• Fresno County - 324
• San Joaquin County - 322
• Stanislaus County - 184
• Kern County - 182
• Tulare County - 108
• Merced County - 76
• Madera County - 31
• Kings County - 22

https://pages.github.berkeley.edu/OPA/our-berkeley/map-homeloc.html

 

Now as a comparison in Fall 2022, Fresno State had among its enrolled students from Stanislaus County:

133 Modesto JC transfers

Plus students who originally enrolled as Freshmen from Stanislaus County:

• 24 from Turlock High
• 22 from Central Valley High (Ceres)
• 18 from Modesto High
• 18 from Pitman High (Turlock)
• 18 from Enochs High (Modesto)
• 17 from Ceres High
• 15 from Johansen High (Modesto)
• 11 from Patterson High
• 10 from Central Catholic (Modesto)
• 10 from Oakdale High
• plus smaller numbers from Gregori/Modesto; Downey/Modesto; Riverbank; Beyer/Modesto; Big Valley Christian (Modesto); Hughson; and other public/private schools in that area.

https://tableau.fresnostate.edu/views/Enrollment/FeederSchools?%3Aembed=y&%3AisGuestRedirectFromVizportal=y

The point is Fresno State last year had close to 350 undergrad students from Stanislaus County. Nearly twice the number who attend Cal from Stanislaus County.

 

 

Yep ties in to my acceptance rate percentage for Cal.  Of the group in Fresno want to bet a good chunk came from University High in Fresno.  A place where sports are so unimportant they don’t have a high school football team  and here is a pic of the high school men’s basketball team in action. …..

[sactowndog]

On 7/10/2023 at 6:57 PM, FresnoFacts said:

A bit off topic for this thread. But just to add to your comments is simply the sheer lack of San Joaquin Valley students who attend Cal, not just the low applicant acceptance.

In Fall 2022, Cal had 23,757 undergrads enrolled who were California residents (then on top of that are out of state and out of country). The number of those current 23,757 undergrads whose home county was in the San Joaquin Valley is very small:

• Fresno County - 324
• San Joaquin County - 322
• Stanislaus County - 184
• Kern County - 182
• Tulare County - 108
• Merced County - 76
• Madera County - 31
• Kings County - 22

https://pages.github.berkeley.edu/OPA/our-berkeley/map-homeloc.html

 

Now as a comparison in Fall 2022, Fresno State had among its enrolled students from Stanislaus County:

133 Modesto JC transfers

Plus students who originally enrolled as Freshmen from Stanislaus County:

• 24 from Turlock High
• 22 from Central Valley High (Ceres)
• 18 from Modesto High
• 18 from Pitman High (Turlock)
• 18 from Enochs High (Modesto)
• 17 from Ceres High
• 15 from Johansen High (Modesto)
• 11 from Patterson High
• 10 from Central Catholic (Modesto)
• 10 from Oakdale High
• plus smaller numbers from Gregori/Modesto; Downey/Modesto; Riverbank; Beyer/Modesto; Big Valley Christian (Modesto); Hughson; and other public/private schools in that area.

https://tableau.fresnostate.edu/views/Enrollment/FeederSchools?%3Aembed=y&%3AisGuestRedirectFromVizportal=y

The point is Fresno State last year had close to 350 undergrad students from Stanislaus County. Nearly twice the number who attend Cal from Stanislaus County.

 

 

In 2022 alone, 480 students (according to Bard) transferred to Fresno State from Delta Community College in Stockton.  Would be interesting to see San Joaquin County.  

[Wyobraska]

On 7/10/2023 at 7:50 PM, sactowndog said:

Just follow up a little further.  It will be interesting how USC and UCLA fare in the Big. Yes they are AAU schools but they don’t fit the BIG model.  Using the schools with the highest undergrad acceptance rate:

let’s take the BIG top ~ 60% in pop 

Penn State 51% acceptance rate 

Illinois 59.7% acceptance rate

Ohio State 57% acceptance rate 

Michigan State 84.7% acceptance rate

 

now compare NorCal and SoCal  ~60% PAC population 

SoCal

UCLA 12.4% acceptance rate

SDSU  32.1% acceptance rate.  
 

NorCal 

Cal 15% Acceptance rate 

just for reference 

SJSU 85% acceptance rate

Fresno 59% acceptance rate

Unlike their other states, In SoCal the BIG won’t have a local university with even a moderate undergrad acceptance rate. 

The PAC would be closer to the BIG model by adding SDSU but still almost 20% below the BIG’s worst state. 

The BIG 12 if they added Fresno and SDSU would have a reasonable chance of taking over much of the state in my opinion.  If you accept like the IVY League you are going to have IVY like affinity and ultimately TV ratings as us old guys die out.  

I don't understand your argument on acceptance rate for how well USC and UCLA will do in the B1G.  There will always be plenty of people interested in USC football if they are halfway good.  

T Shirt fans are a big part of it.  

[FresnoFacts]

On 7/10/2023 at 7:27 PM, sactowndog said:

In 2022 alone, 480 students (according to Bard) transferred to Fresno State from Delta Community College in Stockton.  Would be interesting to see San Joaquin County.  

That 480 number is much much larger than the number at Fresno State's tableau data link. That Bard data probably needs to be checked.

There are some interesting community college enrollment numbers in Fresno State's tableau data when skimming it. 123 students attending last year were transfers from Hancock College in Santa Maria and 118 students last year were from Hartnell College in Salinas. Decent numbers given the distance to those Central Coast schools.

I don't have time to pull another county from that tableau table. But a quick skim looks like San Joaquin County would be smaller than the Stanislaus number.

 

[sactowndog]

On 7/10/2023 at 7:47 PM, Wyobraska said:

I don't understand your argument on acceptance rate for how well USC and UCLA will do in the B1G.  There will always be plenty of people interested in USC football if they are halfway good.  

T Shirt fans are a big part of it.  

Remember a lot of those T shirt fans were developed over the 25 years LA had no pro franchise.   If USC isn’t successful and either or both of the Pro teams are those T shirt fans can disappear quickly.  

[RebelAlliance]

On 7/10/2023 at 8:50 PM, sactowndog said:

Just follow up a little further.  It will be interesting how USC and UCLA fare in the Big. Yes they are AAU schools but they don’t fit the BIG model.  

They'll be fine Northwestern>USC and UCLA=Michigan. 

Also, admissions selectivity is much more complex than just acceptance rates.  Compare Michigan to UCLA/Cal.  Michigan's acceptance rate is around 23%, yet they end up with a freshman class profile every bit the equal of UCLA/Cal.  Why is that?  One answer is the application process in California.  Thousands of kids who know that they're on the path to Davis or Irvine check the UCLA and Cal boxes in a "so you're telling me there's a chance" model.  I'd also say that UCLA/Cal with relatively much larger in-state student populations are the dream schools for a large percentage of their applicants.  Contrast that with Michigan which (I think) might be up to 50% out of state, and those OOS students are overwhelmingly very affluent kids from the Northeast, Chicago and California.  For most of them, Michigan is a safety school.  They really wanted to go to Dartmouth, Stanford or Northwestern.  So, Michigan has to manage their yield knowing that a lot of those applicants will take private college admissions if offered, so they subsequently have to cast a wider net.  Yet at the end of the day, and despite an acceptance rate 50% higher than UCLA/Cal, they end up with the same quality freshman class. And that's what really matters: how smart, qualified and prepared are the freshman who show up in September.  

Look at SDSU.  They have that very low acceptance rate because tons of kids bound for Fullerton or Bakersfield take the chance and check the SDSU box.  But despite that 34% acceptance rate, does anyone really think they end up with a freshman class anywhere near the level of the tier of B1G schools below Michigan (Wisconsin, Illinois, OSU, Minnesota, Purdue)?

[modestobulldog]

To back up @sactowndog on Bulldogs Sports Network Radio game coverage:

Fresno:

• 96.7 FM KALZ – PowerTalk
• 1340 AM KCBL – Fox Sports

Visalia:

• 1400 AM KRZR – PowerTalk

Bakersfield:

• 970 AM KHTY – Fox Sports

Merced:

• 92.9 FM KOSO – The Big Dog

Modesto/Stockton:

• 1280 AM KWSX – Fox Sports

The Valley is Red, And we are “The Big Dog” in Merced!

https://gobulldogs.com/news/2022/9/1/general-bsn-iheart-220901

[sactowndog]

On 7/11/2023 at 7:15 AM, RebelAlliance said:

They'll be fine Northwestern>USC and UCLA=Michigan. 

Also, admissions selectivity is much more complex than just acceptance rates.  Compare Michigan to UCLA/Cal.  Michigan's acceptance rate is around 23%, yet they end up with a freshman class profile every bit the equal of UCLA/Cal.  Why is that?  One answer is the application process in California.  Thousands of kids who know that they're on the path to Davis or Irvine check the UCLA and Cal boxes in a "so you're telling me there's a chance" model.  I'd also say that UCLA/Cal with relatively much larger in-state student populations are the dream schools for a large percentage of their applicants.  Contrast that with Michigan which (I think) might be up to 50% out of state, and those OOS students are overwhelmingly very affluent kids from the Northeast, Chicago and California.  For most of them, Michigan is a safety school.  They really wanted to go to Dartmouth, Stanford or Northwestern.  So, Michigan has to manage their yield knowing that a lot of those applicants will take private college admissions if offered, so they subsequently have to cast a wider net.  Yet at the end of the day, and despite an acceptance rate 50% higher than UCLA/Cal, they end up with the same quality freshman class. And that's what really matters: how smart, qualified and prepared are the freshman who show up in September.  

Look at SDSU.  They have that very low acceptance rate because tons of kids bound for Fullerton or Bakersfield take the chance and check the SDSU box.  But despite that 34% acceptance rate, does anyone really think they end up with a freshman class anywhere near the level of the tier of B1G schools below Michigan (Wisconsin, Illinois, OSU, Minnesota, Purdue)?

Northwestern>USC and UCLA=Michigan.  
 

Both are among the most selective schools.  The Big doesn’t have a Michigan State or Illinois in Southern CA that accepts 50% of the people who apply.  In my opinion that difference is a big deal in terms of affinity.  

Tellng kids they are not accepted is a good way to turn off kids and their parents.