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The "UN"-Official SDSU to the Pac thread.

By Spaztecs, in MWC Sports Forum

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Koji Vu

Koji Vu

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On 7/7/2023 at 7:54 AM, soupslam1 said:

Lol. It will be one of those P5 bottom feeder schools if it joins the PAC. Actually it would have a better chance of making the playoffs if it remained in the MWC. 

I agree with your statement. Either SDSU gets increased TV payout in the P5 or it gets a better chance at playoffs. Win/win scenarios, IMO.  

 

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utenation

utenation

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On 7/7/2023 at 8:42 AM, Koji Vu said:


Maybe somebody thought that, but I think most of us were reading the tea leaves from the media and understand that SDSU
1)  Is the only available FBS school in recruit-heavy Southern California,
2) Wins its market (unlike other G5 schools that have been called up),
3) Has a market at least as good as the average Pac 12 school, 
4) Has heavily invested in its athletic facilities, and
5) Has the highest combined football+basketball winning percentage in the entire nation over the past 10 years. 

https://sonsofmontezuma.com/2022/07/20/by-the-numbers-part-ii-dma-analysis-confirms-sdsus-worth/

Regardless of what the Pac-10/12 decides to do, SDSU will be in a great position going forward due to
1) It will have a better chance of getting into the playoffs than many bottom feeder P5 schools, and
2) Its athletics will be turbo boosted from rent paid by professional sports entities renting its facility. 

I like SDSU a lot. But some of this stuff I’ve heard lately about this is the P12’s fault for SDSU’s mistakes and they have the P12 by the balls gives me pause. 
 

Just because they apparently like to burn bridges doesn’t mean we are to blame.

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SparkysDad

SparkysDad

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On 7/7/2023 at 8:54 AM, soupslam1 said:

Lol. It will be one of those P5 bottom feeder schools if it joins the PAC. Actually it would have a better chance of making the playoffs if it remained in the MWC. 

I look at SDSU because of desirable location/market size as one of the few schools that will make the P5 transition faster. I would put them well ahead of Utah and edging out TCU, when those two programs "moved on up".

JMHO, but SDSU avoids the "Boise State Problem", i.e., lack of fertile, heavily-populated recruiting grounds coupled with a small TV market which could lead to disaster in a P5 conference if Boise State becomes average or less at football. 

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MissionTrails

MissionTrails

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On 7/7/2023 at 7:54 AM, soupslam1 said:

Lol. It will be one of those P5 bottom feeder schools if it joins the PAC. Actually it would have a better chance of making the playoffs if it remained in the MWC. 

That's not an argument for SDSU to stay G5. Do you think Utah or TCU ever regretted moving up given their initial struggles? Do you think Boise State would prefer to stay G5 if given the chance to move up?

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NorCalCoug

NorCalCoug

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On 7/7/2023 at 9:54 AM, SparkysDad said:

I look at SDSU because of desirable location/market size as one of the few schools that will make the P5 transition faster. I would put them well ahead of Utah and edging out TCU, when those two programs "moved on up".

JMHO, but SDSU avoids the "Boise State Problem", i.e., lack of fertile, heavily-populated recruiting grounds coupled with a small TV market which could lead to disaster in a P5 conference if Boise State becomes average or less at football. 

So you think SDSU would transition better than a TCU football program that finished #3 in the nation in just their third year in the BigXII?

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On 7/7/2023 at 11:45 AM, NorCalCoug said:

So you think SDSU would transition better than a TCU football program that finished #3 in the nation in just their third year in the BigXII?

Not to mention both Utah and TCU were nationally ranked teams leading up to their conference move.

It gives me a headache just trying to think down to your level

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SparkysDad

SparkysDad

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On 7/7/2023 at 10:45 AM, NorCalCoug said:

So you think SDSU would transition better than a TCU football program that finished #3 in the nation in just their third year in the BigXII?

Good point, but I still hold that SDSU will benefit more than TCU (barely, I did say "edging"). TCU was 11-2 their last year in the MWC, then 7-6 first year in the Big XII, 4-8 year two, then their #3 rank in their 3rd year. Good year #4 as well, but then fell off to above average or so-so to bad until last year. Did TCU regress in year #5 through 2021 due to conference affiliation?

Utah beat Alabama before they were in the Pac, Boise State beat Oklahoma from the WAC (for Christ's sake!). Strong G5 programs have had really good teams against all competition in the past with TCU being one of the "regulars" in that category.

I think the TCU being #3 in their 3rd year wasn't totally due to being in the Big XII, I believe they had a pretty good foundation going in. That would be an advantage TCU held over SDSU (TCU having a more solid football program leading in to their promotion). But outside of that, I feel like SDSU is in a slightly better place geographically, even considering the "Texas" in TCU. Put another way, I think TCU's #3 finish was mostly an outlier due to a better program with some help from Big XII affiliation, but I think, on average, SDSU has a very slight advantage over TCU in transitioning up to a P5 conference and again JMHO, will benefit more than TCU when that move occurs. 

TCU, pre-Big XII, is a bit like Boise State in that regard...they both got better recruits than their circumstances would lead you to believe when they were dominant in the G5 world. I think SDSU recruiting will take a far more significant jump than Utah (especially) and TCU (barely) if they were to join the Pac. 

Without seeing how BYU transitions, I'd expect SDSU when compared to BYU, to do a better job primarily due to a much better recruiting location and not facing the religion-associated restrictions that have always plagued BYU recruiting.

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818SUDSFan

818SUDSFan

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On 7/6/2023 at 8:56 PM, Coog kev said:

The laborous topic of SDSU inability to Play The Game correctly.  IMO, the SDSU President should be held under scrutiny.  She over-played her hand.  She wrote letters willy nilly to MWC proper thinking she had a likely PAC invite with all of its media rights retard junks about to unfold prior to July 1.  She wanted to pay $17m and not $34m by one stroke of a minute that crossed midnight June 30. Yes, she was in Houston for the SDSU hoops national championship and well deserved re all that.  Yes, she does believe the empty southern California re UCLA/USC departure to B1G can be filled and fulfilled by San Diego.  

She has hopes.  She has dreams.  She is just not playing The Game correctly.  Or is she?

OTOH, if SDSU does not remain in the MWC, the current MWC media rights holders (CBS and Fox methinks) can 're-visit' the contract and make qualified financial adjustments downwards.

Yup. Although there are a number of non-Aztecs here who don't get it, the MWC needs SDSU much more than SDSU needs the MWC.

As for De La Torre, if she's seen as the reason SDSU doesn't join the Pac, she's going to be under so much pressure from alumni that she'll be looking for another job.

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On 7/7/2023 at 1:11 PM, SparkysDad said:

I think the TCU being #3 in their 3rd year wasn't totally due to being in the Big XII, I believe they had a pretty good foundation going in. That would be an advantage TCU held over SDSU (TCU having a more solid football program leading in to their promotion). But outside of that, I feel like SDSU is in a slightly better place geographically, even considering the "Texas" in TCU. Put another way, I think TCU's #3 finish was mostly an outlier due to a better program with some help from Big XII affiliation, but I think, on average, SDSU has a very slight advantage over TCU in transitioning up to a P5 conference and again JMHO, will benefit more than TCU when that move occurs. 

 

3 Top 10 finishes in 4 years - which one is the outlier?

It gives me a headache just trying to think down to your level

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jdgaucho

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On 7/7/2023 at 11:23 AM, 818SUDSFan said:

Yup. Although there are a number of non-Aztecs here who don't get it, the MWC needs SDSU much more than SDSU needs the MWC.

As for De La Torre, if she's seen as the reason SDSU doesn't join the Pac, she's going to be under so much pressure from alumni that she'll be looking for another job.

 

She wouldn't have to wait long.  Berkeley's chancellor is stepping down in June of '24 and De La Torre likely has her sights on that.

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Yoda

Yoda

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On 7/6/2023 at 8:32 PM, utenation said:

Compare that to Yormark of the B12, who has been very open about wanting the 4 corner schools and expansion in general. 

Again,  yet again, BY has not said one word about which schools he hopes to add.

And, at this late date, continuing to say that he has been "very open" about wanting the 4-Cs is an outright lie that entirely discounts his stated desire to be a coast to coast conference. 

Knock it off. 

____________________________________________...

After deleting some of my posts and closing the offending SteveAztec thread, a couple of elites have been able to open it long enough to respond to me anyway.  And since I can’t respond on a closed thread, here is my response…

Other than the initial inquiry, this has never been about letting Steve post again; I doubt that he even wants to post here.  My complaint is about his treatment on this board and the failure of admins to control attacks on him – and worse, to sometimes participate in those attacks.

Steve was first banned on the SDSU board.  When he was banned, it was a sufficiently controversial that they started what became an 8 page thread on the topic to justify the decision (https://aztecmesa.proboards.com/thread/9747/steve-aztec-longer-member-board).  It is clear that Steve had support in the community and there was some criticism for the Board Administrators for having failed to “expel the dozens of people who've been taunting him.”  (And take a look at the thread that I bumped; initially it was supporters happy about Steve getting a radio show.  Then the haters arrived.)

I can’t say if Steve took it too far in response, but I will say that he denies most of various accusations and adds important missing context to others.  But I wasn’t a party to any of the events and can’t say who is in the right and who is in the wrong.  And I have to admit that if half of what has been said about him is true, depending on context, I might well have banned him too.  Or more likely I might have banned those who were taunting him.  (Steve had lost a brother-in-law to suicide and there have been a number of memes of people blowing their brains out, as well as posts blaming Steve or his sister for the suicide – and admins apparently let it go.)

I am in no position to evaluate the truth or falsity of the laundry list of claims made on this board about how Steve responded to all this.  My complaint, however, is about his treatment on this board.  I may be wrong, but his banning on this board at least appears to have been less about what he did on this board and more a carryover from the SDSU banning.  The same taunting continued – more suicide memes – apparently ignored by the admins. Utenation supposedly posted the first and it is explained away because he didn’t know about the suicide.  But was the post taken down?  Was an apology issued?   Indeed, for years, admins on this board have allowed Steve to be vilified based on little more than anecdotal hearsay.  This is a privately owned board, but it is not a private board – anyone can join.  And more than that, It’s not an anonymous board; people know who Steve.  You have a duty to protect your posters from libelous statements and unproven allegations -- especially when, having been banned themselves, they have no ability to defend themselves.

Even Retrofade (who says he’s not a mod but can post to closed threads) put up a “blowing his brains out” meme several years ago.  He knew that Steve lost his brother-in-law to suicide, and he now says that “Steve is a mentally disturbed individual”, which is libelous by the way, but excuses his meme as nothing more than being in “poor taste”.  Apparently it is okay with the board's current admins to taunt a "mentally disturbed person" because the post has never been taken down.  The poster has never been admonished.  And there has been no apology, unless you consider "he deserved it" to be an apology.

In my view, you owe Steve an apology for the treatment that you have tolerated and, in some cases, engaged in.  A former Aztec board went out of business when sued (not by Steve).  It won’t be the last one.  You need to fix this.  You need to administer your board and prevent libelous and incendiary attacks -- hearsay-- on posters. 

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utenation

utenation

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On 7/7/2023 at 12:11 PM, SparkysDad said:

Good point, but I still hold that SDSU will benefit more than TCU (barely, I did say "edging"). TCU was 11-2 their last year in the MWC, then 7-6 first year in the Big XII, 4-8 year two, then their #3 rank in their 3rd year. Good year #4 as well, but then fell off to above average or so-so to bad until last year. Did TCU regress in year #5 through 2021 due to conference affiliation?

Utah beat Alabama before they were in the Pac, Boise State beat Oklahoma from the WAC (for Christ's sake!). Strong G5 programs have had really good teams against all competition in the past with TCU being one of the "regulars" in that category.

I think the TCU being #3 in their 3rd year wasn't totally due to being in the Big XII, I believe they had a pretty good foundation going in. That would be an advantage TCU held over SDSU (TCU having a more solid football program leading in to their promotion). But outside of that, I feel like SDSU is in a slightly better place geographically, even considering the "Texas" in TCU. Put another way, I think TCU's #3 finish was mostly an outlier due to a better program with some help from Big XII affiliation, but I think, on average, SDSU has a very slight advantage over TCU in transitioning up to a P5 conference and again JMHO, will benefit more than TCU when that move occurs. 

TCU, pre-Big XII, is a bit like Boise State in that regard...they both got better recruits than their circumstances would lead you to believe when they were dominant in the G5 world. I think SDSU recruiting will take a far more significant jump than Utah (especially) and TCU (barely) if they were to join the Pac. 

Without seeing how BYU transitions, I'd expect SDSU when compared to BYU, to do a better job primarily due to a much better recruiting location and not facing the religion-associated restrictions that have always plagued BYU recruiting.

It takes time to get your recruiting budget up and overall football expenses up. Coaching salaries, facilities up, nutrition programs, sports medicine all this takes time to improve on. 
 

It will take 3-4 years of solid recruiting classes to improve depth and overall talent to handle a whole season of P5 games, not just 1 or 2  a year. 
 

I’ve never seen a G5 program step up within a year. It takes time. 
 

I’d like to see SDSU. I’ll believe it when I see it. 

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RSF

RSF

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On 7/7/2023 at 1:28 PM, Yoda said:

Again,  yet again, BY has not said one word about which schools he hopes to add.

And, at this late date, continuing to say that he has been "very open" about wanting the 4-Cs is an outright lie that entirely discounts his stated desire to be a coast to coast conference. 

Knock it off. 

adding a school from Arizona would make the B12 coast-to-coast.  Arizona does not observe DST, so is the 4th time zone in Aug/Sep/Oct for football.

It gives me a headache just trying to think down to your level

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818SUDSFan

818SUDSFan

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On 7/7/2023 at 11:26 AM, jdgaucho said:

She wouldn't have to wait long.  Berkeley's chancellor is stepping down in June of '24 and De La Torre likely has her sights on that.

There are 14 comments to last night's SDUT article about this mess and Adela doesn't exactly come off smelling like a rose.

One glaring inaccuracy, however, is a comment that "SDSU" really messed up in hiring her. That person obviously doesn't understand the CSU system under which campus presidents are hired and fired by the 20 members of the board of trustees, all of whom are appointed by the governor. One of the 20 is a very influential Aztec who can be assumed to be getting weary of receiving phone calls and emails questioning his judgment in supporting her.

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818SUDSFan

818SUDSFan

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On 7/7/2023 at 7:42 AM, Koji Vu said:


Maybe somebody thought that, but I think most of us were reading the tea leaves from the media and understand that SDSU
1)  Is the only available FBS school in recruit-heavy Southern California,
2) Wins its market (unlike other G5 schools that have been called up),
3) Has a market at least as good as the average Pac 12 school, 
4) Has heavily invested in its athletic facilities, and
5) Has the highest combined football+basketball winning percentage in the entire nation over the past 10 years. 

https://sonsofmontezuma.com/2022/07/20/by-the-numbers-part-ii-dma-analysis-confirms-sdsus-worth/

Regardless of what the Pac-10/12 decides to do, SDSU will be in a great position going forward due to
1) It will have a better chance of getting into the playoffs than many bottom feeder P5 schools, and
2) Its athletics will be turbo boosted from rent paid by professional sports entities renting its facility. 

Excellent post, KV. The linked article is also hilarious in showing what a terrible addition UCF is for the B12.

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MissionTrails

MissionTrails

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On 7/7/2023 at 11:18 AM, NorCalCoug said:

Their programs were light years ahead of SDSU.  SDSU will struggle more than both.    

Yeah, I like to wear my red and black glasses as much as anybody, and I appreciate the support 'Sparky's Dad' has for us, but you are correct. I think we may have the most potential of the three schools, mainly due to location, but we don't have the consistency those two programs had at the time of their respective expansion, and Whittingham/Patterson are/were far better head coaches than Brady Hoke.

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NorCalCoug

NorCalCoug

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On 7/7/2023 at 12:28 PM, Yoda said:

Again,  yet again, BY has not said one word about which schools he hopes to add.

And, at this late date, continuing to say that he has been "very open" about wanting the 4-Cs is an outright lie that entirely discounts his stated desire to be a coast to coast conference. 

Knock it off. 

Yeah, we know…. “4 Corners” is super secret code for Fresno St!

v0icAvfW.jpg

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