The "UN"-Official SDSU to the Pac thread.

[SalinasSpartan]

On 6/22/2023 at 3:48 PM, soupslam1 said:

BYU did pretty well as an independent. Their football schedule was much better than most G5 schools. Being in the WCC for all other sports helped. 

BYU has been in the WCC. The only D1 independent for the upcoming year is Chicago State.

[bitteraztec]

On 6/22/2023 at 3:24 PM, SalinasSpartan said:

From how he described it, it sounds like  the “benefit” of being in a conference is being in that conference. Set number of games every year, access to bowl bids in football, automatic births into the NCAA playoffs in other sports, etc. Don’t know how any school could argue that being in any conference doesn’t have benefits, as the only current independent D1 school is Chicago State, and that is only because they were essentially kicked out of the WAC.

When we negotiated the last TV deal we all agreed to receive compensation for the duration of the contract.  The benefits and compensation were established at the time of the last tv deal.  There were no guarantees from the schools to be part of the conference during the next tv negotiation.

The remaining schools will still receive the same compensation and conference benefits for the remainder of the current tv contract.  

So in what way has SDSU caused harm to the remaining schools for the duration of the existing contract?  or, what additional benefits did SDSU receive starting in 2021 that were not already part of original exist tv contract to warrant additional penalties 
 

 

[SalinasSpartan]

On 6/22/2023 at 5:26 PM, bitteraztec said:

When we negotiated the last TV deal we all agreed to receive compensation for the duration of the contract.  The benefits and compensation were established at the time of the last tv deal.  There were no guarantees from the schools to be part of the conference during the next tv negotiation.

The remaining schools will still receive the same compensation and conference benefits for the remainder of the current tv contract.  

So in what way has SDSU caused harm to the remaining schools for the duration of the existing contract?  or, what additional benefits did SDSU receive starting in 2021 that were not already part of original exist tv contract to warrant additional penalties 
 

 

None of this shit matters, it won’t be litigated. You suddenly had an epiphany that has lead you to question exit fees, I get it. But SDSU will pay some amount less than 17M, and you’ll get over it because your school will be in the Pac-12. You guys won, be happy and stop bitching about shit that doesn’t really matter at the end of the day. 

[bitteraztec]

On 6/22/2023 at 6:05 PM, SalinasSpartan said:

None of this shit matters, it won’t be litigated. You suddenly had an epiphany that has lead you to question exit fees, I get it. But SDSU will pay some amount less than 17M, and you’ll get over it because your school will be in the Pac-12. You guys won, be happy and stop bitching about shit that doesn’t really matter at the end of the day. 

I’m not bitching about it.  They will pay whatever is negotiated.  I was pointing out collecting the full amount would be a long shot.  I’m not looking to stick it to anyone.

[FresnoFacts]

On 6/22/2023 at 5:26 PM, bitteraztec said:

When we negotiated the last TV deal we all agreed to receive compensation for the duration of the contract.  The benefits and compensation were established at the time of the last tv deal.  There were no guarantees from the schools to be part of the conference during the next tv negotiation.

The remaining schools will still receive the same compensation and conference benefits for the remainder of the current tv contract.  

So in what way has SDSU caused harm to the remaining schools for the duration of the existing contract?  or, what additional benefits did SDSU receive starting in 2021 that were not already part of original exist tv contract to warrant additional penalties

 

My understanding is media contracts include a conference composition clause. That triggers renegotiation of the payment amount if a team leaves.

Unless all of the teams in the MWC are valued the same and any new add is the same value, the compensation will go down when a team in a large market or with a good brand leaves.

San Diego DMA is the largest market so the conference will take a hit on its current contract.

 

[SalinasSpartan]

On 6/22/2023 at 6:13 PM, bitteraztec said:

I’m not bitching about it.  They will pay whatever is negotiated.  I was pointing out collecting the full amount would be a long shot.  I’m not looking to stick it to anyone.

I am assuming it won’t be the full amount because it seems like schools never pay the full amount. I have no idea of how the particulars of the MWC exit fee makes it more or less likely the full amount will be collected. 

[Ram1554]

On 6/22/2023 at 6:29 PM, FresnoFacts said:

San Diego DMA is the largest market so the conference will take a hit on its current contract.

 

The Denver DMA is larger. Fort Collins is in the Denver DMA as opposed to having its own. 

[FresnoFacts]

On 6/22/2023 at 6:47 PM, Ram1554 said:

The Denver DMA is larger. Fort Collins is in the Denver DMA as opposed to having its own. 

Sorry, I was just repeating what the America's Finest City crowd is always trying to tell us.

 

[bitteraztec]

On 6/22/2023 at 6:29 PM, FresnoFacts said:

 

My understanding is media contracts include a conference composition clause. That triggers renegotiation of the payment amount if a team leaves.

Unless all of the teams in the MWC are valued the same and any new add is the same value, the compensation will go down when a team in a large market or with a good brand leaves.

San Diego DMA is the largest market so the conference will take a hit on its current contract.

 

Well that would be a loss.  But the Aztecs would have been in the conference for 4 out of the 6 contract years.  I would be very surprised to see a decrease for the last two years.  I can see the yearly total payout decreasing but it would only be split between 11 schools.  Plus you get our share of conference basketball credits that we forgo to also offset loss.

[Coog kev]

In other news re July 1.  So many others are re-aligning with many well-planned moving parts way in advance.  I do welcome Rice, UTSA, and North Texas to the AAC re the relative local Texas college sports hood, Elevated from elsewhere.  

SDSU is not going to survive the tick tock July 1, unfortunately.  However, in the end it will all figure itself out one way or another. 

Good luck, Aztecs. You are in a very difficult timing-differential Elevation.  Is time on Aztec's side through temporary conundrum matters? My gut says solid Yes, along with Memphis  The both of you will work it all out and Elevate, just not quite right now.  

Craptastic, unfortunate timing differential. 

[AztecSU]

On 6/22/2023 at 7:50 PM, Coog kev said:

In other news re July 1.  So many others are re-aligning with many well-planned moving parts way in advance.  I do welcome Rice, UTSA, and North Texas to the AAC re the relative local Texas college sports hood, Elevated from elsewhere.  

SDSU is not going to survive the tick tock July 1, unfortunately.  However, in the end it will all figure itself out one way or another. 

Good luck, Aztecs. You are in a very difficult timing-differential Elevation.  Is time on Aztec's side through temporary conundrum matters? My gut says solid Yes, along with Memphis  The both of you will work it all out and Elevate, just not quite right now.  

Craptastic, unfortunate timing differential. 

[FresnoFacts]

On 6/22/2023 at 7:03 PM, bitteraztec said:

Well that would be a loss.  But the Aztecs would have been in the conference for 4 out of the 6 contract years.  I would be very surprised to see a decrease for the last two years.  I can see the yearly total payout decreasing but it would only be split between 11 schools.  Plus you get our share of conference basketball credits that we forgo to also offset loss.

 

The media companies will negotiate to decrease the contract even if it is for just the last two years. They will not want to pay for a different product for two additional years out of the goodness of their hearts.

The question is how much will the decrease be. For the total payout to decrease and shares paid to remaining teams be basically the same then it would require SDSU's media value to be the same as every other team in the conference.

But SDSU is in the upper end of the conference values. Their departure will remove a disproportionate amount from the total media payout, not just 1/11 of a full member value.

The basketball credits belong to conferences not teams no matter what. They are separate from media money.

[Headbutt]

On 6/22/2023 at 9:29 AM, bitteraztec said:

So what would the benefit be defined as?  
 

Maintaining the status quo or not incurring a loss by quickly leaving the conference for one with a worse financial package or not going independent while playing football games in Carson CA?  Didn’t SDSU make a major investment during this same time to have a football stadium built with the intent of being in the MWC conference under the original terms they agreed to?  Did they really have an alternative option that would not have been a financial cost or added significant risk to their committed capital expenditures?

They accepted $$ from the conference distribution, despite them contributing to that benefit, it was a benefit.  Maybe they didn't have a better alternative option but that's on them for declining to exercise any other option whether they thought it was better or not.  They stuck with the MWC and accepted the benefits (however limited) that came with that decision.  Nobody held a gun to SDSU's head and made them play in the MWC.  That was their choice.  They chose the benefits of being in the MWC, regardless of whether they had better options or not.  They made a choice.  They voted in conference decisions, they played a conference schedule, they took conference money.  They accepted those benefits.  There is no extenuating circumstance along the lines of "well, we could have gone independent".  They didn't go independent.  They chose to stay in the MWC.

So now, they are unable to say they weren't a willing member.  Therefore, they are beholden to the rules that apply to all the members.

[OrediggerPoke]

On 6/22/2023 at 9:29 AM, bitteraztec said:

So what would the benefit be defined as?  
 

Maintaining the status quo or not incurring a loss by quickly leaving the conference for one with a worse financial package or not going independent while playing football games in Carson CA?  Didn’t SDSU make a major investment during this same time to have a football stadium built with the intent of being in the MWC conference under the original terms they agreed to?  Did they really have an alternative option that would not have been a financial cost or added significant risk to their committed capital expenditures?

A benefit isn’t subjectively measured. The better term I suppose would be end of the bargain or consideration.  The consideration was conference affiliation.  It doesn’t matter whether SDSU would have subjectively believed there was no real benefit or alternative.  

[bitteraztec]

On 6/22/2023 at 8:33 PM, FresnoFacts said:

 

The media companies will negotiate to decrease the contract even if it is for just the last two years. They will not want to pay for a different product for two additional years out of the goodness of their hearts.

The question is how much will the decrease be. For the total payout to decrease and shares paid to remaining teams be basically the same then it would require SDSU's media value to be the same as every other team in the conference.

But SDSU is in the upper end of the conference values. Their departure will remove a disproportionate amount from the total media payout, not just 1/11 of a full member value.

The basketball credits belong to conferences not teams no matter what. They are separate from media money.

Will it be adjusted by 2020 tv values or 2024?  If by 2024 values then less substantial of a reduction.  
 

Right now each team gets 1/11th of the conference earned credits.  When the Aztecs leave that then the remaining teams portion is increased to 1/10.  That is a financial benefit to remaining teams as a result of Aztecs leaving.  If the remaining teams are going to try and prove financial losses that resulted, then financial gains would also have to be considered.

[TheSanDiegan]

On 6/22/2023 at 7:50 PM, Coog kev said:

In other news re July 1.  So many others are re-aligning with many well-planned moving parts way in advance.  I do welcome Rice, UTSA, and North Texas to the AAC re the relative local Texas college sports hood, Elevated from elsewhere.  

SDSU is not going to survive the tick tock July 1, unfortunately.  However, in the end it will all figure itself out one way or another. 

Good luck, Aztecs. You are in a very difficult timing-differential Elevation.  Is time on Aztec's side through temporary conundrum matters? My gut says solid Yes, along with Memphis  The both of you will work it all out and Elevate, just not quite right now.  

Craptastic, unfortunate timing differential. 

Isn't there a "Houston to the diluted B12 and no one gives a shit" thread?

What's that? No? That's because no one gives a shit. Try instead attention whoring in the generic realignment thread.

[FresnoFacts]

On 6/22/2023 at 9:31 PM, bitteraztec said:

Will it be adjusted by 2020 tv values or 2024?  If by 2024 values then less substantial of a reduction.  
 

Right now each team gets 1/11th of the conference earned credits.  When the Aztecs leave that then the remaining teams portion is increased to 1/10.  That is a financial benefit to remaining teams as a result of Aztecs leaving.  If the remaining teams are going to try and prove financial losses that resulted, then financial gains would also have to be considered.

 

TV payments go up each  year over the life of the media contract. The media partners will want to reduce the higher backend years total annual amount.

1/11 or 1/10?

How you are wording your statement is coming across to me that you believe that SDSU adds the same value to the media partners as SJSU, Wyoming, or New Mexico? In other words it appears you expect the media partners to only hold back SDSU's share. I disagree with that.

Some schools add more value than others in any conference contract. Then the total is typically distributed equally to members since uneven revenue sharing can create problems.

With SDSU departing the total amount to distribute will change and will likely result in reduced payments to remaining members.

Let's use some example numbers, I do not have the actual numbers but I'll use these. I also will not try to reflect Hawaii in this. The remaining two years annually will also be higher than the early contract.

If the media share for full members this year is $5.5 million X 11 full members = $60.5 million.

Let's say the media partners value SDSU in the contract not at 1/11 of all full members (about 9%) but at 15% of the total value.

$60.5 million - 15% = $51.425 a drop of about $9 million total annually to the remaining members.

$9 million / 10 is a drop of about $900,000 per remaining team for each of the remaining two contract years.

Fewer members does not offset the lost total revenue.

The exit fee would help offset the loss in the current contract. The future new contract becomes a different issue for remaining teams.

Instead of a GOR keeping teams for the entire media contract period, the Mountain West has the exit penalty to discourage teams from leaving unless it is for a conference with a better media payment.

[utenation]

On 6/22/2023 at 11:04 PM, TheSanDiegan said:

Isn't there a "Houston to the diluted B12 and no one gives a shit" thread?

What's that? No? That's because no one gives a shit. Try instead attention whoring in the generic realignment thread.

Poor kid runs a Texas Chamber of Commerce Ad on every post.  He clearly doesn’t read thread titles. 

[SparkysDad]

On 6/22/2023 at 10:31 PM, bitteraztec said:

Will it be adjusted by 2020 tv values or 2024?  If by 2024 values then less substantial of a reduction.  
 

Right now each team gets 1/11th of the conference earned credits.  When the Aztecs leave that then the remaining teams portion is increased to 1/10.  That is a financial benefit to remaining teams as a result of Aztecs leaving.  If the remaining teams are going to try and prove financial losses that resulted, then financial gains would also have to be considered.

Different set of circumstances, but when Boise State left the WAC, that media contract was decimated. IIRC, basically cut in half on a per team distribution.

While the overall conference (MWC) has stronger individual programs than the WAC had at the time, SDSU is still a critical program and the probable reduction will hurt.

Question for the board: How would you rank the programs currently in the MWC on their financial impact on the conference if they were to leave?

Here's mine:

1. SDSU - give them the nod due to TV market and basketball succe$$ and solid football

2. Boise State - living on the built up equity of being the Cinderella/media darling and still pulling decent TV numbers depending on the opponent

3. Fresno State - decent TV market and solid fan engagement

4. Air Force - the military academies do have a certain national cache

Gets tough for me after this - all below tied for second to last ahead of SJSU, so apologies to the programs I offend (if you aren't already offended by not being in the Top 4!)

5. Nevada - decent football, decent basketball, not a great market

6. Wyoming - Probably important only in Wyoming, but definitively the "only game in town" 

7. UNM - Decent market, really need to get their basketball program back to historic quality

8. UNLV - flashy destination market, but lots of in town competition now that doesn't bode well for UNLV local support

9. Utah State - Would be higher, but with Utah in the Pac and BYU off to the Big 12, it's going to be tough

10 Colorado State - might be too low, but statewide following for all major professional teams + Colorado with Deion = bad news for the Rams, particularly if Colorado has consistent success

11. Hawaii - Hawaii is what it is, could be independent, could be in the Pac, just seems to be this isolated, one-of-a-kind program that doesn't mean much to any conference or most anyone on the mainland, other than a cool place to go to see their team play against the Warriors. They do fill that important 1am TV time slot on the East Coast!

12. SJSU - no comment

 

 

[East Coast Aztec]

On 6/23/2023 at 9:11 AM, SparkysDad said:

Different set of circumstances, but when Boise State left the WAC, that media contract was decimated. IIRC, basically cut in half on a per team distribution.

While the overall conference (MWC) has stronger individual programs than the WAC had at the time, SDSU is still a critical program and the probable reduction will hurt.

Question for the board: How would you rank the programs currently in the MWC on their financial impact on the conference if they were to leave?

Here's mine:

1. SDSU - give them the nod due to TV market and basketball succe$$ and solid football

2. Boise State - living on the built up equity of being the Cinderella/media darling and still pulling decent TV numbers depending on the opponent

3. Fresno State - decent TV market and solid fan engagement

4. Air Force - the military academies do have a certain national cache

Gets tough for me after this - all below tied for second to last ahead of SJSU, so apologies to the programs I offend (if you aren't already offended by not being in the Top 4!)

5. Nevada - decent football, decent basketball, not a great market

6. Wyoming - Probably important only in Wyoming, but definitively the "only game in town" 

7. UNM - Decent market, really need to get their basketball program back to historic quality

8. UNLV - flashy destination market, but lots of in town competition now that doesn't bode well for UNLV local support

9. Utah State - Would be higher, but with Utah in the Pac and BYU off to the Big 12, it's going to be tough

10 Colorado State - might be too low, but statewide following for all major professional teams + Colorado with Deion = bad news for the Rams, particularly if Colorado has consistent success

11. Hawaii - Hawaii is what it is, could be independent, could be in the Pac, just seems to be this isolated, one-of-a-kind program that doesn't mean much to any conference or most anyone on the mainland, other than a cool place to go to see their team play against the Warriors. They do fill that important 1am TV time slot on the East Coast!

12. SJSU - no comment

 

 

Due to the lopsided nature of football dollars to basketball dollars, more eyeballs are on Boise, and they still have just enough brand name to affect Top 25 rankings.  None of us do after that.  So I would flip-flop at the top, Fresno, UNLV and CSU would round out top 5, with USU deserving a mention.