The "UN"-Official SDSU to the Pac thread.

[utgrizfan]

On 6/21/2023 at 2:55 PM, agswin said:

The reality is that it just seems unlikely that the PAC (even a somewhat weakened PAC) is ever going to really get behind bsu.

The PAC has a pretty long history of looking down their noses academically at all the Cal State Schools.  Maybe I am wrong, but I believe bsu is going to viewed as another notch below what the PAC12 elite gang is willing to accept. 

Just do not see it happening.

Have to agree with this but don't like it, I don't see the PAC being able to survive long term (not this round of negotiations) if they keep being snobs. Not counting SDSU banking on UCLA returning and small private schools in Texas won't keep them afloat. This whole process would be a hell of alot easier if they just swallowed their pride, but since they won't here we are.

[415hawaiiboy]

The PAC-12’s only hope is to regionalize and prioritize California with the hope that 10 years of intense rivalry and success from the CA schools, helps them get bigger market share in-state.

The good dance partners in the other states like Texas are taken; and the rest of Football Country is far away.

Meanwhile, each individual P12 school only cares about themselves (ie Big10 invite). 

[agswin]

The PAC will likely need evolve to accept of few of the Cal States and other reasonably academically appointed/private and state schools out here in the West.

 

[Dogs4Me]

On 6/21/2023 at 2:53 PM, agswin said:

The PAC will likely need evolve to accept of few of the Cal States and other reasonably academically appointed/private and state schools out here in the West.

 

Imagine piss bombs and snooty Kal or Stanford types at Bulldog Stadium. So awesome!

[justsurvive]

On 6/21/2023 at 10:50 AM, East Coast Aztec said:

I do see those pop up, but for a western-centric conference thinking of longevity, Boise's population will grow, the academic infrastructure has been growing in the 9 years I have been visiting there, so it should be factored as a potential, and certainly moreso since it is just Boise State in Boise, and pretty much Idaho in general.

And when it comes to a "what have you actually done for me" in regards to conference measurables, it should be NCAAT credits as either an at-large or you won games in the tourney, and non-MWC-tied bowl games or BCS/NY6.  Only Boise matches or exceeds SDSU in that regard, so that too should be looked at as a "help, not hurt" factor.  Just don't see where SMU has done that.

SMU hasn't done anything of consequence, with the exception of 2 NCAA tournament appearances under Larry Brown, the most recent being in 2017.

 

The PAC and other P5 conferences are putting too much emphasis on market size and "academic standing."  To me, the "academic" argument is all arbitrary, especially when you take into account the number of colleges and universities that have been shutting down in recent years.  As for the market size, in regarding the totem pole on who gets the most attention in the Dallas/Fort Worth area, the Cowboys are #1, and the likes of Texas, Texas A&M, TCU, and other Texas-based P5 schools get much of the attention.  SMU is near the bottom, and yet the PAC doesn't seem to care.

 

The problem with conference alignment is that nobody is focusing much on product quality.  Instead, they are focusing on the number of television sets, without even taking into consideration on the odds of whether people watch or not.  People want to buy a product that is actually worth buying, and you would think that people who are driving the conference shuffling would want to pay attention to that.  But they don't pay attention to that at all.

[Coog kev]

What a total screw-up lately re this topic.  I super dig San Diego State but the way Aztec's Administration is playing its hand - letters/emails to MWC - is stunningly stoopid.  $34m is the exit fee in 10 days.

Tick Tock.  Tick Tock.  Tick Tock. 

[Fowl]

On 6/21/2023 at 11:28 AM, OrediggerPoke said:

Applied to SDSU’s situation, if they joined or maintained conference affiliation with direct knowledge of the purported buyout, they may be deemed to have assented to or agreed to the term regardless as to whether they ‘signed’ anything.  

When SDSU rejoined the conference there was no exit fee.  The exit fee was established via an amendment to the bylaws in April 2021 around the same time that there were at rumors that AFA and CSU were close to leaving for the AAC.  I've heard from a second-hand, unconfirmed source that SDSU voted against the bylaw but have no idea if it is actually true.   

[Coog kev]

$34m in 10 days.  Which is not going to happen at all.  Neither is a lofty PAC media rights deal.  A decent deal of 10 PAC members, but not lofty.  SDSU to PAC was/is a great idea...the timing of it all is just not right.  

BTW, the Dallas Morning Press and SMU are stone cold silent re anything to do with PAC expansion.  SMU too has until June 30 to give notice to AAC re exit fees junks.   Stone cold silent.   

[RSF]

On 6/21/2023 at 9:52 PM, Coog kev said:

$34m in 10 days.  Which is not going to happen at all.  Neither is a lofty PAC media rights deal.  A decent deal of 10 PAC members, but not lofty.  SDSU to PAC was/is a great idea...the timing of it all is just not right.  

BTW, the Dallas Morning Press and SMU are stone cold silent re anything to do with PAC expansion.  SMU too has until June 30 to give notice to AAC re exit fees junks.   Stone cold silent.   

So you allegedly live here and you don't know the name of the newspaper.

 

 

Ah, Cougar High...

[OrediggerPoke]

On 6/21/2023 at 8:22 PM, Fowl said:

When SDSU rejoined the conference there was no exit fee.  The exit fee was established via an amendment to the bylaws in April 2021 around the same time that there were at rumors that AFA and CSU were close to leaving for the AAC.  I've heard from a second-hand, unconfirmed source that SDSU voted against the bylaw but have no idea if it is actually true.   

Thanks for the information.  
 

Based on that - My contract/equitable analysis would probably be something like SDSU was aware of the bylaw voting process and aware of the buyout vote in April 2021.  It could have left the conference at that time.  However, SDSU stayed in the conference and apparently accepted the benefits of conference affiliation for another 2 years with full knowledge of the buyout vote and potential repercussions should it subsequently choose to leave.  If the facts as you state are true, I don’t see how buyout liability isn’t imposed (but certainly a discussion on whether the provision is a reasonable estimate of damages).  
 

It can all be summarized from a legal perspective as - if you accept a benefit, you will probably be obligated to the terms associated with that benefit.  

[since1670]

"Still strange that SMU is getting looked at a ..." It's not really strange.

SMU has great academics. That makes it acceptable where others may not be.

It also is very wealthy. That means it can afford many goodies including expensive coaches and facilities.

Then, there is a SMU NIL program. Every football and basketball player will receive $36k annually. With that and a great recruiting area, SMU will normally provide competitive teams.

Money counts.

https://www.si.com/college/2022/08/08/smu-football-basketball-players-receive-36000-nil-collective

 

[utenation]

On 6/21/2023 at 11:44 AM, SparkysDad said:

Lots of factors keeping Boise State at arms length as a candidate for a Power Conference upgrade...TV market (although growing), academics (although slowly improving from a very low starting point) and the inability to maintain the frankly unsustainable level of success in football that BSU enjoyed with Petersen in his Golden Era.

Spark.. If you went P5, the coach poach problem pretty much goes away.  Unless a blue blood comes calling. 

 Interested investors would also look at BSU’s past and what and why they were good including support, revenue generation and fit for said new conference. 

[utenation]

On 6/21/2023 at 10:25 PM, since1670 said:

"Still strange that SMU is getting looked at a ..." It's not really strange.

SMU has great academics. That makes it acceptable where others may not be.

It also is very wealthy. That means it can afford many goodies including expensive coaches and facilities.

Then, there is a SMU NIL program. Every football and basketball player will receive $36k annually. With that and a great recruiting area, SMU will normally provide competitive teams.

Money counts.

https://www.si.com/college/2022/08/08/smu-football-basketball-players-receive-36000-nil-collective

 

It’s also strange that the B12 never picked up this “powerhouse” school. Hmmmmm. Maybe they knew something?

[quickdraw]

On 6/21/2023 at 7:14 PM, justsurvive said:

SMU hasn't done anything of consequence, with the exception of 2 NCAA tournament appearances under Larry Brown, the most recent being in 2017.

 

The PAC and other P5 conferences are putting too much emphasis on market size and "academic standing."  To me, the "academic" argument is all arbitrary, especially when you take into account the number of colleges and universities that have been shutting down in recent years.  As for the market size, in regarding the totem pole on who gets the most attention in the Dallas/Fort Worth area, the Cowboys are #1, and the likes of Texas, Texas A&M, TCU, and other Texas-based P5 schools get much of the attention.  SMU is near the bottom, and yet the PAC doesn't seem to care.

 

The problem with conference alignment is that nobody is focusing much on product quality.  Instead, they are focusing on the number of television sets, without even taking into consideration on the odds of whether people watch or not.  People want to buy a product that is actually worth buying, and you would think that people who are driving the conference shuffling would want to pay attention to that.  But they don't pay attention to that at all.

Perfect BSu post. “Don’t look at anything that has been the determining factor for decades, just look at what our football program was a decade ago”. 

Good luck with that. Maybe when when the BIG and SEC go semi-pro.

[bitteraztec]

On 6/21/2023 at 8:25 PM, OrediggerPoke said:

Thanks for the information.  
 

Based on that - My contract/equitable analysis would probably be something like SDSU was aware of the bylaw voting process and aware of the buyout vote in April 2021.  It could have left the conference at that time.  However, SDSU stayed in the conference and apparently accepted the benefits of conference affiliation for another 2 years with full knowledge of the buyout vote and potential repercussions should it subsequently choose to leave.  If the facts as you state are true, I don’t see how buyout liability isn’t imposed (but certainly a discussion on whether the provision is a reasonable estimate of damages).  
 

It can all be summarized from a legal perspective as - if you accept a benefit, you will probably be obligated to the terms associated with that benefit.  

So what would the benefit be defined as?  
 

Maintaining the status quo or not incurring a loss by quickly leaving the conference for one with a worse financial package or not going independent while playing football games in Carson CA?  Didn’t SDSU make a major investment during this same time to have a football stadium built with the intent of being in the MWC conference under the original terms they agreed to?  Did they really have an alternative option that would not have been a financial cost or added significant risk to their committed capital expenditures?

[soupslam1]

On 6/21/2023 at 8:20 PM, Coog kev said:

What a total screw-up lately re this topic.  I super dig San Diego State but the way Aztec's Administration is playing its hand - letters/emails to MWC - is stunningly stoopid.  $34m is the exit fee in 10 days.

Tick Tock.  Tick Tock.  Tick Tock. 

Are the Aztecs gone yet?

[SparkysDad]

On 6/22/2023 at 12:05 AM, utenation said:

Spark.. If you went P5, the coach poach problem pretty much goes away.  Unless a blue blood comes calling. 

 Interested investors would also look at BSU’s past and what and why they were good including support, revenue generation and fit for said new conference. 

I think the closest comparison is probably TCU even though there's a much larger TV market and better recruiting grounds. While they've maintained competitiveness, they definitely haven't risen to the level of domination they enjoyed comparatively as a non-P5 program. 

Who knows what Boise State's journey would look like if the invite were to come? 

The "put down" from others that I actually understand, is if Boise State football were to be less than mediocre in a P5 conference, currently there's not a lot of additional value there, ie. TV market size, recruiting grounds, academics, other sports, etc.

[SparkysDad]

On 6/21/2023 at 11:36 AM, East Coast Aztec said:

Still strange that SMU is getting looked at and not Boise.  Out of all the conference members to have a real gripe on this, it is BSU.

Really good podcast explaining Boise State's Pac/Big 12 issues and the podcasters are a bit perplexed as well...

Start at the 4:17 mark of the podcast (not the video).

[SalinasSpartan]

On 6/22/2023 at 8:29 AM, bitteraztec said:

So what would the benefit be defined as?  
 

Maintaining the status quo or not incurring a loss by quickly leaving the conference for one with a worse financial package or not going independent while playing football games in Carson CA?  Didn’t SDSU make a major investment during this same time to have a football stadium built with the intent of being in the MWC conference under the original terms they agreed to?  Did they really have an alternative option that would not have been a financial cost or added significant risk to their committed capital expenditures?

From how he described it, it sounds like  the “benefit” of being in a conference is being in that conference. Set number of games every year, access to bowl bids in football, automatic births into the NCAA playoffs in other sports, etc. Don’t know how any school could argue that being in any conference doesn’t have benefits, as the only current independent D1 school is Chicago State, and that is only because they were essentially kicked out of the WAC.

[soupslam1]

On 6/22/2023 at 4:24 PM, SalinasSpartan said:

From how he described it, it sounds like  the “benefit” of being in a conference is being in that conference. Set number of games every year, access to bowl bids in football, automatic births into the NCAA playoffs in other sports, etc. Don’t know how any school could argue that being in any conference doesn’t have benefits, as the only current independent D1 school is Chicago State, and that is only because they were essentially kicked out of the WAC.

BYU did pretty well as an independent. Their football schedule was much better than most G5 schools. Being in the WCC for all other sports helped.