5 officers charged with murder

[Spaztecs]

On 2/3/2023 at 9:55 AM, East Coast Aztec said:

My question isn't why he had it, it was what was he doing with it physically at that moment.  Like I said, I usually have a knife, for protection and utility.  I shouldn't be killed for simply having it on me.

I carry a pocket knife in a scabbard on my belt.

I'm also white. I doubt the cops will gun me down.

[Spaztecs]

On 2/3/2023 at 10:05 AM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

19 percent

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2018/10/15/police-with-military-experience-more-likely-to-shoot#:~:text=Though 6 percent of the,data performed by Gregory B.

So, the 81% who are not Vets, weren't qualified for the Military.

There's a bad outcome going to happen.

[RebelAlliance]

On 2/3/2023 at 11:47 AM, Spaztecs said:

So, the 81% who are not Vets, weren't qualified for the Military.

There's a bad outcome going to happen.

Makes perfect sense to me. The formative experience of these guys' lives was acting as the occupying army controlling amd terrorizing the civilian population. Completely unsurprising that is the base mentality they now bring to policing.

Usually, the non vets have to have some college to get in, while the vets get it waived. I think even a few years on a diverse college campus is better training for policing (particularly in a big city) than being part of an occupying army. 

[Spaztecs]

On 2/3/2023 at 11:06 AM, RebelAlliance said:

Makes perfect sense to me. The formative experience of these guys' lives was acting as the occupying army controlling amd terrorizing the civilian population. Completely unsurprising that is the base mentality they now bring to policing.

Usually, the non vets have to have some college to get in, while the vets get it waived. I think even a few years on a diverse college campus is better training for policing (particularly in a big city) than being part of an occupying army. 

While there are a small % who want to serve their Communities and have some Edmahcation, most realize Policing/Firefighting is one of the few decent career paths they have.

[RebelAlliance]

On 2/3/2023 at 12:13 PM, Spaztecs said:

While there are a small % who want to serve their Communities and have some Edmahcation, most realize Policing/Firefighting is one of the few decent career paths they have.

I can't speak for everywhere, but in Chicago, there's a 4 years of college requirement. 2 years in the military gets it lowered to two years. 4 years in the military, and all you need is a HS diploma. 

I've never seen any breakdown on what percent of recruits have four, two or no college. 

[GoDogs22]

On 2/3/2023 at 9:12 AM, SharkTanked said:

True or False, police are more scrutinized today than at any point in American history? Might make a good poll topic.

 

True, but it's been overdue for a long time, if that makes sense

[RebelAlliance]

On 2/3/2023 at 1:40 PM, GoDogs22 said:

 

True, but it's been overdue for a long time, if that makes sense

And does the scrutiny lead to actual oversight, repercussions for bad behavior and changes in cop culture?  That's what ultimately matters. 

[Spaztecs]

On 2/3/2023 at 11:17 AM, RebelAlliance said:

I can't speak for everywhere, but in Chicago, there's a 4 years of college requirement. 2 years in the military gets it lowered to two years. 4 years in the military, and all you need is a HS diploma. 

I've never seen any breakdown on what percent of recruits have four, two or no college. 

That's surprising Chicago can find that many College Educated folk who want to be Cops.

Most with that much Education usually opt for less dangerous and stressful career paths.

Im also guessing that Ed requirements are for Leadership positions 

[RebelAlliance]

On 2/3/2023 at 2:23 PM, Spaztecs said:

That's surprising Chicago can find that many College Educated folk who want to be Cops.

Most with that much Education usually opt for less dangerous and stressful career paths.

Im also guessing that Ed requirements are for Leadership positions 

Not to be snobbish, but I doubt the pool is coming from U of Chicago, Northwestern or U of Illinois. More likely it's kids from working class backgrounds (or cop kids) who are coming from directional Illinois.

[Spaztecs]

Yes, there are some really good cops.

Sadly, in Salt Lake the cops would have given them 24 hours to move on,  or be towed.

 

https://www.yourtango.com/news/police-discover-father-and-daughter-living-suv-after-little-girl-kept-arriving-school

[GoDogs22]

On 2/3/2023 at 12:15 PM, RebelAlliance said:

And does the scrutiny lead to actual oversight, repercussions for bad behavior and changes in cop culture?  That's what ultimately matters. 

 

We can hope. And the oversight needs to be independent, not on police payroll. I'm still thinking that they need to find a way that police misconduct payments aren't covered by taxpayers, but by the actual department/officers.

[AztecAlien]

On 2/3/2023 at 8:48 PM, GoDogs22 said:

 

We can hope. And the oversight needs to be independent, not on police payroll. I'm still thinking that they need to find a way that police misconduct payments aren't covered by taxpayers, but by the actual department/officers.

Just curious, how would police misconduct payments covered by departments or officers not somehow end up coming from taxpayers? How do you squeeze blood from a turnip? 

[GoDogs22]

 

[GoDogs22]

On 2/3/2023 at 8:27 PM, AztecAlien said:

Just curious, how would police misconduct payments covered by departments or officers not somehow end up coming from taxpayers? How do you squeeze blood from a turnip? 

 

Police pension funds, and departments carrying liability

[AztecAlien]

On 2/3/2023 at 9:29 PM, GoDogs22 said:

 

Police pension funds, and departments carrying liability

Okay, not completely disagreeing. Just wondering how that would work after draining the pension funds? 

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 2/3/2023 at 10:24 AM, East Coast Aztec said:

First link didn't load, what was the summary.  Second one certainly refutes my point, but is a small sample but a noted margin.  So, so far you have produced more likely to shoot, not sure on the "problem cops" (as parsed) yet, but I assume the first link addressed that?

Sorry about the delay.  The first link showed a direct correlation between a military background and reports of police misconduct that ended up in suspension,  Police with a military background are more likely to resort to a violent response first than those without as the paper states, and far more likely to face suspension for various other things. 

[halfmanhalfbronco]

@East Coast Aztecit makes sense when you think about it.  The type of individual who would choose to finish their personal career in LEO after a stint in the military would be more likely than the general cop to fly off the handle. A lot would go from A to B like that and can not separate A from B when heated.  So go into combat mode control mode.  

Every study on the subject I can find shows police with a military background are more likely to be abusive cops

[East Coast Aztec]

On 2/3/2023 at 10:36 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

@East Coast Aztecit makes sense when you think about it.  The type of individual who would choose to finish their personal career in LEO after a stint in the military would be more likely than the general cop to fly off the handle. A lot would go from A to B like that and can not separate A from B when heated.  So go into combat mode control mode.  

Every study on the subject I can find shows police with a military background are more likely to be abusive cops

I will say I am wrong.  I am just using anecdotal evidence, so my bias skewed my hypothesis.  Good thing is if I needed to do a study, the study would be done by lit review. 

[RebelAlliance]

On 2/3/2023 at 9:48 PM, GoDogs22 said:

 

We can hope. And the oversight needs to be independent, not on police payroll. I'm still thinking that they need to find a way that police misconduct payments aren't covered by taxpayers, but by the actual department/officers.

Chicago pays out about 125 million a year in cop misconduct settlements.  It's completely out of +++++ing control.  

[Spaztecs]

On 2/3/2023 at 9:29 PM, GoDogs22 said:

 

Police pension funds, and departments carrying liability

That are funded by oir tax dollars. We literally pay financially, socially and culturally for their broken culture.