5 officers charged with murder

[Slapdad]

On 1/27/2023 at 11:37 AM, RebelAlliance said:

Sometimes (a lot of times), pig violence is racially based. Other times, it's just simply psychopathic because that job is literally a magnet for the people psychologically least suited to it while screening out (ceilings on IQ scores for example) those with any intelligence or empathy. There's also the sick dynamic where black pigs feel the need to be even bigger thugs in black communities than their white buddies in order to try and fit in with pig culture. 

That's partly true, but it's painting with a very broad brush and the comment above leaves out layers of complexity on the issue. The police is a lot like the military in a lot of ways in the type of people they both attract, but it's not just one group of people. Both the military and police attract the following groups of people: 1) People who are power hungry.....they love to be in charge, but not for the good of the group, but for the good of their ego. 2) People who grew up waayy too interested in guns/shooting people/playing cops or army games. 3) People who genuinely want to make a difference and have a positive impact on their community. 4) People who otherwise have no plan for their future. The military, in particular, is a great choice for a lot of people who have no real plan, little ambition and no skills. It allows them a career path to retirement that they many not otherwise have. Becoming a police officer offers a similar path with most departments offering a pension. 

Group 1 would certainly have the highest incidents of corruption and incidents like happened with Tyre Nichols. This is the typical asshole cop attitude and the worst type of cop. Group 2 usually has no designs of throwing their weight around, but they are probably the group that most easily gets molded into doing so by their peers...group 3 can be lumped in here as well, but mostly because they're less educated more easily swayed. Group 4 is usually the cop with more education and usually (hopefully) are the ones who rise to level of chief and set a tone for the department and change the ways that police departments were entrenched in by covering up. I'm glad to see that there are more charges being brought these days and particularly in this case and the Levar Jones case. The problem is that people from any of the four groups can become jaded by what they see on a daily basis and allow that bias to change the way they act as an officer. 

To suggest, as some here have done, that there is no such thing as a good cop is ridiculous. 

 

[madmartigan]

On 1/27/2023 at 9:55 AM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Black cops being particularly violent towards black men is a thing.

No such thing as a good cop.  Including the black ones.

 All police officers are bad? Could you expound please? I'm with you there are problems, but this is a very broad stroke you're painting with. 

[GoDogs22]

On 1/27/2023 at 10:32 AM, Nevada Convert said:

 Police chiefs are under pressure to solves crimes and keep crime down.

Under pressure to keep funding up, more like it

[madmartigan]

On 1/27/2023 at 8:44 AM, GoDogs22 said:

Someone remind me again why wanting to reform the police is a bad thing?

I'm curious who has said police reform is a bad thing? Some have said completely defunding police departments is a bad thing, but I haven't talked to anyone that has stated police departments are perfect and don't need reform. 

[SAMO]

On 1/27/2023 at 9:37 AM, RebelAlliance said:

Sometimes (a lot of times), pig violence is racially based. Other times, it's just simply psychopathic because that job is literally a magnet for the people psychologically least suited to it while screening out (ceilings on IQ scores for example) those with any intelligence or empathy. There's also the sick dynamic where black pigs feel the need to be even bigger thugs in black communities than their white buddies in order to try and fit in with pig culture. 

They’re just a gang with badges who have a monopoly on state sanctioned enforcement power…lol

[GoDogs22]

On 1/27/2023 at 11:47 AM, madmartigan said:

I'm curious who has said police reform is a bad thing? Some have said completely defunding police departments is a bad thing, but I haven't talked to anyone that has stated police departments are perfect and don't need reform. 

 

Any attempt at bringing up reform is labeled as "defunding" police, even though it's making sure that funds are allocated to the correct place.

[madmartigan]

On 1/27/2023 at 1:03 PM, GoDogs22 said:

 

Any attempt at bringing up reform is labeled as "defunding" police, even though it's making sure that funds are allocated to the correct place.

It's just hard to draw much (for the average person) when they see "DEFUND THE POLICE" signs to think it means anything other than.. well... defund the police. 

[Slapdad]

On 1/27/2023 at 2:03 PM, GoDogs22 said:

 

Any attempt at bringing up reform is labeled as "defunding" police, even though it's making sure that funds are allocated to the correct place.

Any attempt? Really? I know that I've seen the subject of police reform discussed here as long as it makes sense, so if you want to have that discussion, do so. Start with your ideas of what makes sense for police reform and we'll go from there. The real hyperbole that exists on the OT board is the narrative that ALL cops are bad cops, which has already made an appearance in this thread. Any statement that starts with/contains the words "all" or "any" is probably already headed in the wrong direction. 

[coalman29]

On 1/27/2023 at 12:45 PM, madmartigan said:

 All police officers are bad? Could you expound please? I'm with you there are problems, but this is a very broad stroke you're painting with.

What would make a cop bad? If he knows of 20 drug dealers in your neighborhood and arrests 19 because, well they're drug dealers, then good. But he then let's the last one slide, for whatever reason...a kick back, or because he has beers with him on the weekend, they are from the same city...whatever the reason. Does that make him bad? I would think so.

Now apply that same logic to cops and their colleagues. Any cop will will tell you there are bad cops. I'm sure they even know exactly which ones they are. So why aren't they addressing them? Why do they apply the law to 99% of the general population, but the bad cops get a pass? Doesn't that now place them in that same bad cop category?

[happycamper]

On 1/27/2023 at 1:32 PM, Nevada Convert said:

A point gets missed over and over with where this aggressive culture comes from regarding traffic stops. Police chiefs are under pressure to solves crimes and keep crime down. In urban areas with gangs, crime is almost impossible to solve because people are afraid to be witnesses or provide info. because of the consequences from the gangs.

 

i mean

it may be because of the consequences of the policing, as well. 

 

On 1/27/2023 at 1:32 PM, Nevada Convert said:

So how can police convict anyone? Traffic stops. They find the guns, drugs, etc. and they arrest them. Then they get info. from people they release as informants, etc. Traffic stops are a big foot in the door to solve crimes. The aggressive nature goes too far, and they become the thugs they commonly deal with day to day. 

 

[halfmanhalfbronco]

On 1/27/2023 at 12:45 PM, madmartigan said:

 All police officers are bad? Could you expound please? I'm with you there are problems, but this is a very broad stroke you're painting with. 

Yeah.

There are LEO's who are good people, protect and serve and go above and beyond, cops who would risk their life for a stranger without a thought.  For sure.  Even if there are not enough of them.  However, and this is just my opinion, it is impossible to be a "good cop" due to how broken the system is in this country.  Until there this broad reform in both applied practice and culture there can not be a good cop.  They are just cops who are good people.  I hope that makes sense.

 

[SalinasSpartan]

On 1/27/2023 at 1:42 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Yeah.

There are LEO's who are good people, protect and serve and go above and beyond, cops who would risk their life for a stranger without a thought.  For sure.  Even if there are not enough of them.  However, and this is just my opinion, it is impossible to be a "good cop" due to how broken the system is in this country.  Until there this broad reform in both applied practice and culture there can not be a good cop.  They are just cops who are good people.  I hope that makes sense.

 

[GoDogs22]

On 1/27/2023 at 12:36 PM, madmartigan said:

It's just hard to draw much (for the average person) when they see "DEFUND THE POLICE" signs to think it means anything other than.. well... defund the police. 

 

"Defund to put the money in the right places, hire people trained to help those in mental crises, teach techniques based in diffusion instead of escalation, and keep the police from increased militarization that directly harms the American people" doesn't fit well on a bumper sticker, unless it's at a .3 point.

[madmartigan]

On 1/27/2023 at 4:04 PM, GoDogs22 said:

 

"Defund to put the money in the right places, hire people trained to help those in mental crises, teach techniques based in diffusion instead of escalation, and keep the police from increased militarization that directly harms the American people" doesn't fit well on a bumper sticker, unless it's at a .3 point.

Yes but again the average person will not realize this. It’s a messaging problem that needs to be solved. 

[East Coast Aztec]

On 1/27/2023 at 3:39 PM, madmartigan said:

Yes but again the average person will not realize this. It’s a messaging problem that needs to be solved. 

I can't say I even see politicians or non-anarchist groups using "defund" anymore.  I believe the originator was a councilmember in Minneapolis, and he admitted it was a bad term and the term didn't mean his intent.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/26/us/politics/minneapolis-defund-police.html

 

Quote

Councilor Andrew Johnson, one of the nine members who supported the pledge in June, said in an interview that he meant the words “in spirit,” not by the letter. Another councilor, Phillipe Cunningham, said that the language in the pledge was “up for interpretation” and that even among council members soon after the promise was made, “it was very clear that most of us had interpreted that language differently.” Lisa Bender, the council president, paused for 16 seconds when asked if the council’s statement had led to uncertainty at a pivotal moment for the city.

“I think our pledge created confusion in the community and in our wards,” she said.

 

[RebelAlliance]

On 1/27/2023 at 3:42 PM, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Yeah.

There are LEO's who are good people, protect and serve and go above and beyond, cops who would risk their life for a stranger without a thought.  For sure.  Even if there are not enough of them.  However, and this is just my opinion, it is impossible to be a "good cop" due to how broken the system is in this country.  Until there this broad reform in both applied practice and culture there can not be a good cop.  They are just cops who are good people.  I hope that makes sense.

 

Exactly.  Just look at what happens when some of the proverbial (mythical?) good apples go against the thin blue line culture.  They're ostracized and threatened until they leave the force.

Having the ceiling on the IQ test is a real interesting thing.  Aside from the obvious of screening out any potential "smart" cops, it passes those that will be most dependent on their cop pay, cop benefits and cop pension.  They know that they could never, ever make the same in the private sector in today's America, and that's an incredibly strong influence on them to never break the thin blue line even if they personally aren't culpable.  

[thelawlorfaithful]

On 1/27/2023 at 3:47 PM, East Coast Aztec said:

I can't say I even see politicians or non-anarchist groups using "defund" anymore.  I believe the originator was a councilmember in Minneapolis, and he admitted it was a bad term and the term didn't mean his intent.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/26/us/politics/minneapolis-defund-police.html

 

 

“I didn’t mean all that dumb stuff I said. It was the idiots that interpreted it wrong. Don’t blame me.”

[East Coast Aztec]

On 1/27/2023 at 4:09 PM, thelawlorfaithful said:

“I didn’t mean all that dumb stuff I said. It was the idiots that interpreted it wrong. Don’t blame me.”

Proposed (and not implemented) changes to Minneapolis Charter aka "Defund"

 

You can just admit that they were not getting rid of police, while still say it was a terrible way to describe the proposal.  I have.

[RSF]

The cops were fired.

 

They're being charged with murder.

 

The video is being released pretty quickly.

 

 

So explain to me why people are protesting?

[thelawlorfaithful]

On 1/27/2023 at 4:24 PM, East Coast Aztec said:

Proposed (and not implemented) changes to Minneapolis Charter aka "Defund"

 

You can just admit that they were not getting rid of police, while still say it was a terrible way to describe the proposal.  I have.

Why do I have to admit it. I was never taken in by that nonsense.