More classified documents

[SalinasSpartan]

On 1/12/2023 at 9:42 AM, thelawlorfaithful said:

No really, sit this one out.

You just said it doesn’t need to be proven that a person violated every element of a crime to be convicted of that crime and YOU are telling ME to sit this one out? 
 

wow

[thelawlorfaithful]

On 1/12/2023 at 9:52 AM, SalinasSpartan said:

You just said it doesn’t need to be proven that a person violated every element of a crime to be convicted of that crime and YOU are telling ME to sit this one out? 
 

wow

I said every element of the statute, not crime, you lying dumbass. There’s a reason the or is prominent. There’s a difference between Petraeus and the Rosenbergs. They don’t write these things Willy nilly. Go sit down.

[retrofade]

 

 

[grandjean87]

On 1/12/2023 at 11:31 AM, retrofade said:

 

 

As it should be. 

[Slapdad]

On 1/11/2023 at 8:05 AM, Akkula said:

I am sure you would agree that the DOJ almost NEVER indicts anyone for accidentally retaining a classified document and then handing it over once the discovery is made, correct?  I am also sure you understand that someone who is under subpoena for those documents and doesn't turn them over is in pretty deep shit at that point, no?

Shouldn't Biden and Trump just be treated according to past precedent on this deal?

Accidentally retaining? LOL! Please tell me how Biden accidentally retained classified documents...it's not like they stayed in the closet of an office he was using at the time. He had to make an effort to get them to the offsite locations, so don't try and sugarcoat it for him. And just where are you getting your information that the DOJ almost never indicts anyone for stealing classified documents? There have been at least 11 cases since 2005 with eight of those people going to prison, one getting a fine, one losing security clearance and one still working its way through the courts. This includes people who served as U.S. National Security Advisor, a retired Lt. Colonel, Retired U.S. Army General, U.S. Navy Reservist, former National Security Agency contractor,  defense contractor, CIA officers (2), NSA employee, Defense Department Employee, and FBI agent. Biden had years and opportunities to return them....he spent all of COVID in the basement of that house....but his attorneys were the ones to hand it over. Had they not been there to stumble onto them, it is unlikely Biden would have ever done so. 

 

 

[Slapdad]

On 1/12/2023 at 12:35 PM, grandjean87 said:

As it should be. 

I agree. The same scrutiny should be given to Biden as was given to Trump and every other player who has done the same (see my post above). 

[grandjean87]

On 1/12/2023 at 11:45 AM, Slapdad said:

I agree. The same scrutiny should be given to Biden as was given to Trump and every other player who has done the same (see my post above). 

I did read.  As I previously stated, let the DoJ do their thing.  Special Counsel seems a good route.  I'm not big on a concomitant House investigation, but I'd be surprised if that doesn't happen.  The two cases, even with the 2nd Biden set, still appear vastly different, but no harm in investigating a serious matter like this. 

Maybe this all leads to remedies for the handling of classified documents as well as the long noted over classification of government documents? 

 

[SalinasSpartan]

On 1/12/2023 at 10:31 AM, thelawlorfaithful said:

I said every element of the statute, not crime, you lying dumbass. There’s a reason the or is prominent. There’s a difference between Petraeus and the Rosenbergs. They don’t write these things Willy nilly. Go sit down.

If you understood what an element was you would know that there is no way to know if all the elements in the statutes you cited have been violated based on some phuckin news articles. 

[SalinasSpartan]

On 1/12/2023 at 10:45 AM, Slapdad said:

I agree. The same scrutiny should be given to Biden as was given to Trump and every other player who has done the same (see my post above). 

Exactly. I think a House investigation needs to happen as well TBH. There is an appearance of a conflict of interest when the DOJ investigates the sitting President that appointed the person who runs the DOJ. A GOP lead House investigation would increase the public’s trust that Biden will be held accountable.

[SalinasSpartan]

On 1/12/2023 at 11:05 AM, grandjean87 said:

I did read.  As I previously stated, let the DoJ do their thing.  Special Counsel seems a good route.  I'm not big on a concomitant House investigation, but I'd be surprised if that doesn't happen.  The two cases, even with the 2nd Biden set, still appear vastly different, but no harm in investigating a serious matter like this. 

Maybe this all leads to remedies for the handling of classified documents as well as the long noted over classification of government documents? 

 

I think a House investigation must happen. I just fundamentally do not trust an AG to oversee an investigation (free from ANY bias) of the guy that appointed him. 

[utenation]

While the Trump and Biden situations may be different, specifically obstruction, Biden needs to be held accountable for his actions. If an investigation shows there was foul play, he needs to pay the price.  If there is nothing here, move on.  I'm ok with a House investigation as well as long as it's fair. But based on some of the other planned investigation agenda of the new house, it would probably be another witch hunt.

 

[grandjean87]

On 1/12/2023 at 12:23 PM, SalinasSpartan said:

I think a House investigation must happen. I just fundamentally do not trust an AG to oversee an investigation (free from ANY bias) of the guy that appointed him. 

Think about that free from any bias part a little harder.  Plus, what's the point of a special counsel then? 

[grandjean87]

On 1/12/2023 at 12:28 PM, utenation said:

While the Trump and Biden situations may be different, specifically obstruction, Biden needs to be held accountable for his actions. If an investigation shows there was foul play, he needs to pay the price.  If there is nothing here, move on.  I'm ok with a House investigation as well as long as it's fair. But based on some of the other planned investigation agenda of the new house, it would probably be another witch hunt.

 

You don't trust the Gym Jordans to be objective?

[SalinasSpartan]

On 1/12/2023 at 11:27 AM, TCU Robert said:

It was reported / speculated that Trump kept the top secret documents so he could sell them to Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Russia, UAE, Egypt, Iran, Israel and China.  Maybe this was complete conjecture by some.

Do we know that Biden was also intending to sell these documents?  What his motive was for keeping them in his garage?

If neither guy was actually trying to sell anything, maybe it is best to drop it now and forget about it.

 

 

Best to drop it? I’m sorry, what? That’s a joke, right?

[Maji]

Having at least some misplaced documents seems like something that happens to most presidents and VPs. Unless highly sensitive material that jeopardizes our national security falls into foreign hands (and especially if it's willingly given), I'm not sure it's too big of a scandal

[utenation]

On 1/12/2023 at 12:30 PM, grandjean87 said:

You don't trust the Gym Jordans to be objective?

Most of them use the same playbook as @bornontheblue. The evidence and justification to impeach doesn't matter. Just impeach because all Dems have it coming. Hang them all.

[SalinasSpartan]

On 1/12/2023 at 11:29 AM, grandjean87 said:

Think about that free from any bias part a little harder.  Plus, what's the point of a special counsel then? 

I’m sorry, this is just bullshit. Like anybody here would give a shit if Barr had appointed a special counsel to investigate Trump for whatever reason. 
 

I have thought about this hard, and I’m not in the business of having a ton of faith in an AG investigating a sitting President and just “calling balls and strikes”. Sorry. Call me conspiratorial, call me dumb, whatever, I don’t care. 

[grandjean87]

On 1/12/2023 at 12:36 PM, SalinasSpartan said:

I’m sorry, this is just bullshit. Like anybody here would give a shit if Barr had appointed a special counsel to investigate Trump for whatever reason. 
 

I have thought about this hard, and I’m not in the business of having a ton of faith in an AG investigating a sitting President and just “calling balls and strikes”. Sorry. Call me conspiratorial, call me dumb, whatever, I don’t care. 

That's fine on the latter part in certain cases, but you might need to rethink a House investigation as unbiased (as you so implied).  

Btw: I was fine with the Mueller investigation and report assigned by Sessions.  It was the obfuscation by Barr that was the issue, but that wasn't the special counsel. 

[East Coast Aztec]

On 1/12/2023 at 11:32 AM, TCU Robert said:

I thought it is probably just sloppy record keeping by both guys.  Meaning they took home a document and never returned it.

But I really don't know.  Depends on the content of the documents I guess.

Not holding someone accountable breeds pattern-driven complacency, and degrades the security of potential information.  Though I may joke that if the presidents can get off scot-free, we may as well just release the info since it was not "important enough", it is only a joke.  If it is deemed classified, lazy handling of the materials needs to be addressed, and it needs to be uniform vertically, not just a punishment for the low-level bureaucrat, and a look-the-other-way for executive level personnel.  In fact, it should be the opposite, imo.  Set the standard at the top.

[GoDogs22]

This just seems more like carelessness than any sort of sinister doings.  But it helps keep the false equivalence between Biden and Trump going, and that's all that really matters in the end. Not to mention that they did comply with NARA as soon as the docs were found.