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idkk

Fresno to the P5?

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On 2/8/2023 at 1:38 PM, e-zone99 said:

"The numbers next to each school indicate the average number of viewers per week from 2015–19. Streaming numbers are included when available. Conference championship games and bowl games are not included in these numbers. Games that do not have available data were counted as zero."

#64 Boise St (476K)

#79 Fresno St (127K)

#85 Nevada (80K)

#86 San Diego St (63K)

#87 UNLV (55K)

Link: https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach/which-college-football-programs-bring-in-the-most-tv-viewers-efc03c689e50

Or 2021

"Ranking the most-watched college football programs in 2021 The numbers next to each school indicate the average number of viewers per week for a 12-week season. Streaming numbers are included when available. Games that do not have available data are counted as zero."

#49 Boise St (657K)

#78 San Diego St (198K)

#96 Nevada (78K)

#104 Fresno St (45K)

#107 UNLV (34K)

Link: https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach/which-college-football-programs-were-the-most-watched-in-2021-49ef4f315858

 

Boise St's small media market has not been a problem to the networks in wanting to air their games, according to these numbers.

Washington St is in Pullman, Washington (population around 30,000) and is 75 miles from Spokane, but gets very good ratings on their TV games.

2015-19 season ranked #39 (909K)

2021 season ranked #59 (483K)

 

FWIW, in the Fall of 2022 Neilson has Boise's media market moved up to #83- 661,600 metro population vs say Fresno at #66- 837,100 or Spokane #88- 632,700 or Reno #96- 607,100.

Link: https://www.nielsen.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/10/Radio-Market-Populations-Fall-2022.pdf

 

 

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Markets for big state schools is fluid.  Aint nobody going to confuse College Station with any big metro area, but its safe to say CS isn't A&M's 'market'.  It's the whole state.  West Virginia was brought up earlier.  Morgantown and the whole state aren't heavily populated, but their 'market' reaches into parts of Pennsylvania and several other states.  Which is why before ESPN+ came along, their Tier 3 partner was Root Sports Pittsburgh.  There are many others like this.

In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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On 2/8/2023 at 12:38 PM, e-zone99 said:

"The numbers next to each school indicate the average number of viewers per week from 2015–19. Streaming numbers are included when available. Conference championship games and bowl games are not included in these numbers. Games that do not have available data were counted as zero."

#64 Boise St (476K)

#79 Fresno St (127K)

#85 Nevada (80K)

#86 San Diego St (63K)

#87 UNLV (55K)

Link: https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach/which-college-football-programs-bring-in-the-most-tv-viewers-efc03c689e50

Or 2021

"Ranking the most-watched college football programs in 2021 The numbers next to each school indicate the average number of viewers per week for a 12-week season. Streaming numbers are included when available. Games that do not have available data are counted as zero."

#49 Boise St (657K)

#78 San Diego St (198K)

#96 Nevada (78K)

#104 Fresno St (45K)

#107 UNLV (34K)

Link: https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach/which-college-football-programs-were-the-most-watched-in-2021-49ef4f315858

 

Boise St's small media market has not been a problem to the networks in wanting to air their games, according to these numbers.

Apples-oranges because of Boise's special deal with ESPN. Also, because of the MW's deal with CBSSN which gives that network the next choice in games, SDSU is on that lousy platform an inordinate amount.

Please God, make it happen. Get us out of this woebegone conference.

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On 2/8/2023 at 12:36 PM, e-zone99 said:

I think you might be surprised by Boise St, what I had heard was Boise St was neck and neck with Houston for the last Big12 add.  In fact they had a slight edge over Houston, because of a travel partner for BYU and another 4th time slot program.  But in the end Houston got a boost from politics and Boise's academics worked against them.  Boise St TV draw was a huge boost to them being in there tell the end, also production on the football field didn't hurt.

TV market  always gets thrown out there, Boise St TV market is small, the Idaho's population is so small.  For fun I want to compare some Pac States and Big12 states to Idaho.

Idaho- Population 1.9 million; 0 P5 schools; 1 FBS school (Boise St); 2 FCS schools (Idaho and Idaho St)

Arizona- Population 7.2 million; 2 P5 schools (Arizona and Arizona St); 2 FBS schools; 1 FCS school (Northern Arizona)

Colorado- Population 5.8 million; 1 P5 school (Colorado); 3 FBS schools (Air Force and Colorado St); 1 FCS school (Northern Colorado)

Oregon- Population 4.2 million; 2 P5 schools (Oregon and Oregon St); 2 FBS schools; 1 FCS school (Portland St)

Washington- Population 7.8 million; 2 P5 schools (Washington and Washington St); 2 FBS schools; 1 FCS school (Eastern Washington)

Utah- Population 3.3 million; 2 P5 schools (BYU and Utah); 3 FBS schools (plus Utah St); 3 FCS schools (Weber St, Southern Utah and Utah Tech)

Iowa- Population 3.2 million; 2 P5 schools (Iowa and Iowa St); 2 FBS schools; 2 FCS schools (Drake and Northern Iowa)

Kansas- Population 2.9 million; 2 P5 schools (Kansas and Kansas St); 2 FBS schools; 0 FCS schools

Oklahoma- Population 4.0 million; 2 P5 schools (Oklahoma and Oklahoma St); 3 FBS schools (Tulsa); 0 FCS schools

West Virginia- Population 1.8 million; 1 P5 school (West Virginia); 2 FBS schools (Marshall; 0 FCS schools

 

Idaho and Boise St population/media market falls right in line with the Big12's size of States not named Ohio (2 P5), Texas (6 P5), and Florida (4 P5).  But those 3 States do have a lot of FBS schools in their States.

Ohio- Thee Ohio St has ruled Ohio forever as the only P5, until Cincinnati getting the move up: Population 11.8 million; 2 P5 schools; 8 FBS schools (Akron, Bowling Green, Kent St, Miami, Ohio, and Toledo)

Florida- Population 22.2 million; 4 P5 schools (Florida, Florida St, Miami, and UCF); 7 FBS schools (Florida International, Florida Atlantic, and South Florida)

Texas- Texas and A&M have always been the Big Dogs: Population 30.0 million; 6 P5 schools (Baylor, Houston, Texas Tech, and TCU); 13 FBS schools (North Texas, Rice, Sam Houston St, SMU, Texas St, UTEP, and UTSA)

 

I find this difficult to believe…. Boise didn’t even make the Top12 in 2016.

 

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On 2/8/2023 at 2:22 PM, RSF said:

Markets for big state schools is fluid.  Aint nobody going to confuse College Station with any big metro area, but its safe to say CS isn't A&M's 'market'.  It's the whole state.  West Virginia was brought up earlier.  Morgantown and the whole state aren't heavily populated, but their 'market' reaches into parts of Pennsylvania and several other states.  Which is why before ESPN+ came along, their Tier 3 partner was Root Sports Pittsburgh.  There are many others like this.

Correct, Boise St's market is not just the Boise DMA, but the majority of whole State with them being the only FBS school in the State.  I'm a BYU fan, but I enjoy watching every Boise St and Utah St game that I'm able to get.  Other MWC teams I don't have the same desire to watch their games.  Wyoming would be next on my list, but I don't go much out of my way to find their games broadcasts. 

 

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On 2/8/2023 at 3:29 PM, NorCalCoug said:

I find this difficult to believe…. Boise didn’t even make the Top12 in 2016.

 

I'm pretty sure they were in the top 12 in 2016, because I'm pretty sure Boise St was visited by the Big12 and was able to show/give their slideshow presentation to the Big12.

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On 2/8/2023 at 3:35 PM, e-zone99 said:

I'm pretty sure they were in the top 12 in 2016, because I'm pretty sure Boise St was visited by the Big12 and was able to show/give their slideshow presentation to the Big12.

They absolutely weren’t in the Top12 and it was reported in multiple outlets at the time.  Here’s Barry Tramel:

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/sports/2021/08/30/big-12-expansion-already-has-list-applicants-2016/5647450001/
 

“The Big 12 ended up with 12 finalists for expansion in 2016: Air Force, Brigham Young, Central Florida, Cincinnati, Colorado State, Connecticut, Houston, Rice, South Florida, Southern Methodist, Temple and Tulane.”

This list is consistent with other reports.  I pasted other links on this board many times for a certain big mouthed Admin who thinks his Broncos are bigger and more relevant than they really are.

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On 2/8/2023 at 2:25 PM, 818SUDSFan said:
On 2/8/2023 at 12:38 PM, e-zone99 said:

"The numbers next to each school indicate the average number of viewers per week from 2015–19. Streaming numbers are included when available. Conference championship games and bowl games are not included in these numbers. Games that do not have available data were counted as zero."

#64 Boise St (476K)

#79 Fresno St (127K)

#85 Nevada (80K)

#86 San Diego St (63K)

#87 UNLV (55K)

Link: https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach/which-college-football-programs-bring-in-the-most-tv-viewers-efc03c689e50

Or 2021

"Ranking the most-watched college football programs in 2021 The numbers next to each school indicate the average number of viewers per week for a 12-week season. Streaming numbers are included when available. Games that do not have available data are counted as zero."

#49 Boise St (657K)

#78 San Diego St (198K)

#96 Nevada (78K)

#104 Fresno St (45K)

#107 UNLV (34K)

Link: https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach/which-college-football-programs-were-the-most-watched-in-2021-49ef4f315858

 

Boise St's small media market has not been a problem to the networks in wanting to air their games, according to these numbers.

Apples-oranges because of Boise's special deal with ESPN. Also, because of the MW's deal with CBSSN which gives that network the next choice in games, SDSU is on that lousy platform an inordinate amount.

Please God, make it happen. Get us out of this woebegone conference.

 

Any game that was broadcast somewhere that did not have public viewing/rating numbers skewed that analysis. I bolded their admission of that but too many people ignore it.

They counted all broadcast games as the denominator in the average. But admit they used 0 in the numerator if they did not have a viewer number.

For example, 100 + 50 + 75 is an average of 75.

If you know you should have 3 game numbers but only have 2 then using 0 in the numerator makes a difference:

100 + 50 + 0 = 50

The more teams are broadcast on something like CBSSN the more their average was skewed.

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On 2/8/2023 at 3:38 PM, FresnoFacts said:

 

Any game that was broadcast somewhere that did not have public viewing/rating numbers skewed that analysis. I bolded their admission of that but too many people ignore it.

They counted all broadcast games as the denominator in the average. But admit they used 0 in the numerator if they did not have a viewer number.

For example, 100 + 50 + 75 is an average of 75.

If you know you should have 3 game numbers but only have 2 then using 0 in the numerator makes a difference:

100 + 50 + 0 = 50

The more teams are broadcast on something like CBSSN the more their average was skewed.

That's exactly why I added that quote, but it does not change the fact that the networks chose to broadcast Boise St games over other conference teams.  A reason why Boise St had a special deal with ESPN, ESPN had to have a desire for that to happen or it would not of happened.

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On 2/8/2023 at 2:56 PM, e-zone99 said:

That's exactly why I added that quote, but it does not change the fact that the networks chose to broadcast Boise St games over other conference teams.  A reason why Boise St had a special deal with ESPN, ESPN had to have a desire for that to happen or it would not of happened.

 

Yes but I wanted to highlight that qualification again for those who miss it.

I saw this same info popup on another board in recent weeks but over there people were ignoring the data problem.

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On 2/8/2023 at 2:38 PM, NorCalCoug said:

They absolutely weren’t in the Top12 and it was reported in multiple outlets at the time.  Here’s Barry Tramel:

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/sports/2021/08/30/big-12-expansion-already-has-list-applicants-2016/5647450001/
 

“The Big 12 ended up with 12 finalists for expansion in 2016: Air Force, Brigham Young, Central Florida, Cincinnati, Colorado State, Connecticut, Houston, Rice, South Florida, Southern Methodist, Temple and Tulane.”

This list is consistent with other reports.  I pasted other links on this board many times for a certain big mouthed Admin who thinks his Broncos are bigger and more relevant than they really are.

The stupidity of half of that list is shocking.

AFA: Its size limitations make effectively competing in an FBS conference almost impossible.

UConn: BCS football conference membership has never been much about basketball; it's about football and UConn football has almost always been miserable.

Rice: Historically excellent academics but consistently one of the worst football programs in the country since 1961.

USF: Has only had an FBS football program since 2000  and has consistently had a miserable basketball program.

Temple: Kicked out of the Big East for football ineptitude and through 2015 had gone to four bowl games in forever.

Tulane: Kicked out of the SEC for football ineptitude and through 2015 had gone to seven bowl games in forever.

Thankfully for your school, it now appears the B12 is run by people whose focus appears to be something other than academics.

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On 2/8/2023 at 3:38 PM, NorCalCoug said:

They absolutely weren’t in the Top12 and it was reported in multiple outlets at the time.  Here’s Barry Tramel:

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/sports/2021/08/30/big-12-expansion-already-has-list-applicants-2016/5647450001/
 

“The Big 12 ended up with 12 finalists for expansion in 2016: Air Force, Brigham Young, Central Florida, Cincinnati, Colorado State, Connecticut, Houston, Rice, South Florida, Southern Methodist, Temple and Tulane.”

This list is consistent with other reports.  I pasted other links on this board many times for a certain big mouthed Admin who thinks his Broncos are bigger and more relevant than they really are.

Here is what Barry Tramel had to say on Aug 30, 2021:

"The Big 12 ended up with 12 finalists for expansion in 2016: Air Force, Brigham Young, Central Florida, Cincinnati, Colorado State, Connecticut, Houston, Rice, South Florida, Southern Methodist, Temple and Tulane.

Other applications were received. Schools that did not make the cut were Arkansas State, Boise State, East Carolina, Memphis, New Mexico, Northern Illinois, San Diego State and Nevada-Las Vegas.

This time around, the top contenders are expected to be BYU, Central Florida, Cincinnati, Houston, Boise State, SMU and Memphis."

Link: https://www.oklahoman.com/story/sports/2021/08/30/big-12-expansion-already-has-list-applicants-2016/5647450001/

 

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On 2/8/2023 at 5:03 PM, e-zone99 said:

Here is what Barry Tramel had to say on Aug 30, 2021:

"The Big 12 ended up with 12 finalists for expansion in 2016: Air Force, Brigham Young, Central Florida, Cincinnati, Colorado State, Connecticut, Houston, Rice, South Florida, Southern Methodist, Temple and Tulane.

Other applications were received. Schools that did not make the cut were Arkansas State, Boise State, East Carolina, Memphis, New Mexico, Northern Illinois, San Diego State and Nevada-Las Vegas.

This time around, the top contenders are expected to be BYU, Central Florida, Cincinnati, Houston, Boise State, SMU and Memphis."

Link: https://www.oklahoman.com/story/sports/2021/08/30/big-12-expansion-already-has-list-applicants-2016/5647450001/

 

Makes sense, Boise improved its lot in the last 5 years with their steady decline.  They weren’t Top12 in 2016, I find it difficult to believe they were a top candidate in 2021.  One of the statements there is fact (2016), the other was a guess or estimation (2021).

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On 2/8/2023 at 4:13 PM, 818SUDSFan said:

The stupidity of half of that list is shocking.

AFA: Its size limitations make effectively competing in an FBS conference almost impossible.

UConn: BCS football conference membership has never been much about basketball; it's about football and UConn football has almost always been miserable.

Rice: Historically excellent academics but consistently one of the worst football programs in the country since 1961.

USF: Has only had an FBS football program since 2000  and has consistently had a miserable basketball program.

Temple: Kicked out of the Big East for football ineptitude and through 2015 had gone to four bowl games in forever.

Tulane: Kicked out of the SEC for football ineptitude and through 2015 had gone to seven bowl games in forever.

Thankfully for your school, it now appears the B12 is run by people whose focus appears to be something other than academics.

Not disagreeing, but that was the Top12 in 2016.

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On 2/8/2023 at 4:44 PM, NorCalCoug said:

Not disagreeing, but that was the Top12 in 2016.

Yes, I know and don't misunderstand me, I'm not dissing the current leadership. Just speculating that the 2016 search committee was probably devoid of people with a strong athletics background which more befits the Pac-12.

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On 2/8/2023 at 3:38 PM, FresnoFacts said:

 

Any game that was broadcast somewhere that did not have public viewing/rating numbers skewed that analysis. I bolded their admission of that but too many people ignore it.

They counted all broadcast games as the denominator in the average. But admit they used 0 in the numerator if they did not have a viewer number.

For example, 100 + 50 + 75 is an average of 75.

If you know you should have 3 game numbers but only have 2 then using 0 in the numerator makes a difference:

100 + 50 + 0 = 50

The more teams are broadcast on something like CBSSN the more their average was skewed.

How hard is it for those who publish these numbers to exclude broadcasts with no numbers ?

 

:shrug:

"We don't have evidence but, we have lot's of theories."

Americans Mayor

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On 2/8/2023 at 6:16 PM, Spaztecs said:

How hard is it for those who publish these numbers to exclude broadcasts with no numbers ?

:shrug:

Do writers not take math classes like other people? :hmmm:

At the least those numbers should include individual notes about how many "0" viewer numbers were used for each school. That would have given some idea of how different schools were impacted.

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On 2/8/2023 at 10:13 AM, Poster17 said:

This is a tired, old argument.  UNLV has the academics in place for a move to the PAC12 or Big12 right now.  All I know is that from speaking with the UNLV football staff multiple times over the past few months since Coach Odom got the job, they have been pretty adamant that they will be moving to the PAC12.  Take that for what it is worth, but this issue was brought up by them every time.  Not once did I ask what they thought on it.  They said on their own this is what they expect.  To me, that means some wheels are in motion.   Sorry.....we'll send for you in about 10-20 years when we get things settled there.

They are trying to get recruits excited and nothing more.  

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On 2/8/2023 at 7:57 PM, FresnoFacts said:

Do writers not take math classes like other people? :hmmm:

At the least those numbers should include individual notes about how many "0" viewer numbers were used for each school. That would have given some idea of how different schools were impacted.

Is this a ploy to make numbers for the G5 look bad and prevent CBS from having to pay fair market value ?

"We don't have evidence but, we have lot's of theories."

Americans Mayor

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