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Big American Vulnerability exposed: Pinehurst, NC power outages

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On 12/8/2022 at 10:19 AM, renoskier said:

actually, my 15 year old boy often does his own laundry without being asked...he's just as bad as I am when it comes to folding and putting it away :shrug:

and I'm OCD when it comes to the dishwasher, wouldn't mind if they unloaded it but I usually end up having to reload it anytime someone else thinks they're helping

If you don’t fold it and put it away then you didn’t really “do the laundry” did you? I’ll thank the machine for doing its part. You didn’t do shit. 

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On 12/8/2022 at 2:10 PM, East Coast Aztec said:

Not even factoring peak demand, if the system goes down, a replicable system or an overlapping system for emergency operations in the event of an attack to keep residential power going is going to be expensive for a company to do, and spreading it across potentially multiple power companies would be a nightmare to figure out logistics, responsibilities, maintenance schedules, and of course, costs (which will always be passed down to the end user).  So to the original point, I just don't see this passing an analysis to install this as a standard process.  

Getting two utility companies to even have a conversation is hell on earth... hell, and that goes for utility software companies as well.

Source: I've worked for a utility software company as well as a utility.

Then adding in the concept of sharing expenses on something? Yeah, I definitely agree that's not going to happen. The holy grail is reliable backup power in the form of batteries and other technologies, but we're simply not there yet. There are some storage facilities in the Eastern part of NC, but not nearly enough to keep the lights on for people for very long, and a lot of power gets used up with transforming the energy voltages for transport, and then transforming again before entering the house. 

 

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On 12/8/2022 at 10:19 AM, happycamper said:

I'm always curious as to where the numbers lead and between my job, my education, and the supernerd extracurriculars I did in high school I can crunch the numbers quick and can get relevant information pretty quickly too. 

there are so many questions that can't be approached with math so when you can do so it is satisfying to actually get an answer for once. I didn't know what I was going to find out with the fentanyl thing; if the numbers had agreed with you I would have posted that too. 

revenge of the nerds 80s GIF

 

revenge of the nerds 80s GIF

 

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On 12/8/2022 at 11:26 AM, SJSUMFA2013 said:

If you don’t fold it and put it away then you didn’t really “do the laundry” did you? I’ll thank the machine for doing its part. You didn’t do shit. 

wtf? are you auditioning to be x-wife #3?:foottap:

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On 12/7/2022 at 9:38 PM, East Coast Aztec said:

To distribute that much power for a long time?  That would likely be very expensive. Plus, what is the initial procurement cost, and then what is the kw/hr rate to recoup that going to be?  

Why am I distributing it when I generate locally?   The procurement cost is an issue which is why both a DC/AC converter and cheaper better battery tech are needed. 

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On 12/8/2022 at 12:56 PM, Old_SD_Dude said:

Of course you’re correct. My bad. 

Yeah, secret sounds kind of odd.

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On 12/8/2022 at 10:19 AM, renoskier said:

actually, my 15 year old boy often does his own laundry without being asked...he's just as bad as I am when it comes to folding and putting it away :shrug:

and I'm OCD when it comes to the dishwasher, wouldn't mind if they unloaded it but I usually end up having to reload it anytime someone else thinks they're helping

Good lord.  You remind me of my dad.  You would do dishes and he would be busy rearranging everything to get in one last dish.  
 

still pisses me off and he’s been dead 30 years and I’m 60. Lol

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On 12/8/2022 at 2:07 PM, sactowndog said:

Good lord.  You remind me of my dad.  You would do dishes and he would be busy rearranging everything to get in one last dish.  
 

still pisses me off and he’s been dead 30 years and I’m 60. Lol

no, I'm okay if it doesn't all fit...but yes, I want it done in the most efficient way and I don't run it until it's full

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On 12/8/2022 at 2:01 PM, sactowndog said:

Why am I distributing it when I generate locally?   The procurement cost is an issue which is why both a DC/AC converter and cheaper better battery tech are needed. 

How long does that work, and what about people who can't afford it?  We are discussing a substation going out affecting a region.

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On 12/8/2022 at 11:26 AM, SJSUMFA2013 said:

If you don’t fold it and put it away then you didn’t really “do the laundry” did you? I’ll thank the machine for doing its part. You didn’t do shit. 

To be fair, folding laundry is a very difficult task.  The complex configuration space as well as the highly non-linear dynamics and different materials of deformable objects. The largest robotics manufacturer's in the world haven't really even figured out how to do it.

https://www.npr.org/2022/10/22/1130552239/robot-folding-laundry

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On 12/7/2022 at 3:34 PM, happycamper said:

We've always been vulnerable to right wing terrorism. 

This is not a right wing terrorism problem. It’s a terrorism problem stemming from different groups along the ideological spectrum. 

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I’ve been designing, maintaining and improving electrical substations and transmission lines for the last 27 years now, from Southern CA to Nevada to Montana to Colorado to the Midwest.  I’ve been all over.

As long as I’ve been around, we’ve always had problems with elements of vandalism and sabotage. People trying to steal copper has been a problem because we use so much of it for grounding. Some old lower voltage lines still use copper wire as the main conductor for many miles up top.

About 12 years ago when I was in Reno, a live copper line with wood poles outside Truckee on a cold Jan night was cut down with chainsaws. When the poles/wire hit the ground, they knew the substation line breaker would shut off the power and they could cut a nice section of copper off and get away before the line crews showed up. They got greedy, stayed too long and got caught. 

Some people have unbolted steel transmission structures from their anchor bolts, lots of target practice at substations. 

There have been two major events that have changed everything, however:

2001: 911

2013: Metcalf Substation

Immediately after 911 when I was working for Nevada Power, I was tasked with hardening the subs that feed the military, and I can’t say anything more than that. 

Metcalf Sub is a major sub in the Bay Area that also includes a major fiber backbone. It was a major major professionally done hit, just devastating. From my sources there, early on it was pretty obviously an inside job. Ultimately, it was determined to likely be exactly that by the FBI. 

Even though it was very likely internal, it created a panic in the industry. I’ve been to T&D conferences that were primarily about Metcalf. Anytime you get an event like this, it can create copycats. It can give bad people bad ideas. 

Major power utilities are quasi-governmental entities. They consist of a charter that’s given to a private or public company that is then highly regulated by the state PUC, and federally by FERC. FERC has tasked a private company known as NERC to develop reliability and protective standards for our nation’s power grid.

NERC CIP is a big buzzword in the industry. CIP = Critical Infrastructure Protection. For quite a while now, protective standards have been developed and continue to be developed, and utilities are given time to meet the standards or face enormous fines. 

I can’t go into details, but it is a work in progress. It takes time and money to get it all done, and all assets are prioritized for obvious reasons. 

 

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On 12/9/2022 at 5:01 PM, Nevada Convert said:

I’ve been designing, maintaining and improving electrical substations and transmission lines for the last 27 years now, from Southern CA to Nevada to Montana to Colorado to the Midwest.  I’ve been all over.

As long as I’ve been around, we’ve always had problems with elements of vandalism and sabotage. People trying to steal copper has been a problem because we use so much of it for grounding. Some old lower voltage lines still use copper wire as the main conductor for many miles up top.

About 12 years ago when I was in Reno, a live copper line with wood poles outside Truckee on a cold Jan night was cut down with chainsaws. When the poles/wire hit the ground, they knew the substation line breaker would shut off the power and they could cut a nice section of copper off and get away before the line crews showed up. They got greedy, stayed too long and got caught. 

Some people have unbolted steel transmission structures from their anchor bolts, lots of target practice at substations. 

There have been two major events that have changed everything, however:

2001: 911

2013: Metcalf Substation

Immediately after 911 when I was working for Nevada Power, I was tasked with hardening the subs that feed the military, and I can’t say anything more than that. 

Metcalf Sub is a major sub in the Bay Area that also includes a major fiber backbone. It was a major major professionally done hit, just devastating. From my sources there, early on it was pretty obviously an inside job. Ultimately, it was determined to likely be exactly that by the FBI. 

Even though it was very likely internal, it created a panic in the industry. I’ve been to T&D conferences that were primarily about Metcalf. Anytime you get an event like this, it can create copycats. It can give bad people bad ideas. 

Major power utilities are quasi-governmental entities. They consist of a charter that’s given to a private or public company that is then highly regulated by the state PUC, and federally by FERC. FERC has tasked a private company known as NERC to develop reliability and protective standards for our nation’s power grid.

NERC CIP is a big buzzword in the industry. CIP = Critical Infrastructure Protection. For quite a while now, protective standards have been developed and continue to be developed, and utilities are given time to meet the standards or face enormous fines. 

I can’t go into details, but it is a work in progress. It takes time and money to get it all done, and all assets are prioritized for obvious reasons. 

 

Thanks for filling up the gaps that I left out. I remember Metcalf being a huge deal even after I joined the industry a few weeks later. I found out the next year that my soon to be (at the time) BIL worked at FERC, and that incident was still giving them grief. Now he’s in charge of transmission and interconnections for a utility up in the NE. 

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On 12/9/2022 at 5:04 PM, GoDogs22 said:

 

Based on the evidence provided in this thread of various right-wing nutcases talking about shutting down the power, and celebrating it.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/07/us/power-outage-moore-county-investigation-wednesday/index.html

I think it’s highly likely for sure. The far right nuts have been chatting about it online for years, and you’d have a small number take some shots here and there with late night beer balls. But traditionally, these neo nazi militia types are big pussies, all talk and no action.

I mean they’ve been talking for decades about starting a race war. All they have to do is drive into an urban gang neighborhood and start something, but they never have. They’re big pussies and they’re usually really dumb. So I’m always skeptical that they could organize something and coordinate shit. 

 

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Here’s a sub I did about 20 years ago. It’s in a rough industrial zoned area. The idea here was to make the sub look like an industrial building from the outside. It’s more aesthetically pleasing to look at, and dumb criminals hopefully wouldn’t notice it’s there to mess with. Those are fake windows along the outside, and a small fake parking area with entrance door. I got these pics off Google. Kind of disappointing they haven’t maintained it to look nicer. It sure looked great when it was new. 
 

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