grandjean87

Political boundaries aren't geographical ones. The West is the best. Hate the political divides, but that shit doesn't matter when you are on a peak or the divide between river drainages or in the middle of high desert or on the coast or anywhere in this beautiful land.

FYI: A couple trial docs. Attached next is the verdict sheet. 12 unanimous on 34 counts of Ş 175.10. That's the charged verdict. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24706184-trump-verdict-sheet Jury instructions transcript: https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/647cfa024408c047/31a0026b-full.pdf

Thank goodness. A decent questioning of the convictions and law. As posted in a different thread, the law(s) used to convict are probably the main appeal strategy. Ş 17-152 is a misdemeanor, but it is a crime. If Trump conspired to promote (an) his election by illegals means and the false business records are the result of those actions then you have ş 175.10 which is the felony up-charge of the misdemeanor. 175.10 does not require a felony connection. The election misdemeanor suffices. 175.10 only required a nexus with another crime (17-152) and the jury believed Pecker. They saw the forensics up-payments to Cohen to offset tax liability. They got that a hush money payoff in 2016 for a decade old rendezvous was about the election. It was also a novel case, sure. But, how many politician cases have there ever been in NY state like this? How many pols covered up hush money during a campaign and falsified records committing tax fraud in the process. It was also kind of a novel crime. The appeal may eventually turn on these things? Barr blocked the earlier route to federal charges. Maybe if he doesn't weaponize the justice department to protect his president, this would have been a federal election and tax case after Ja. '21? The Office of General Counsel found in 2018, as they have over two dozen-plus other times, reason to pursue/recommendations for Trump FEC violations. All blocked to this day. It's really hard to manage any feels for Trump given 50+ years of his fvckery in NY, but if he wins an appeal so be it. That's part of how things work in our system scales of justice tilted to the white collars, aside.

Interesting case that I assume would have got more notice except for the timing at the start of Covid. Ramos would not have applied to NY and all but two other states because they had already extended unanimity to serious crimes. The Roberts Court overturned a Burger Court ruling and "incorporated" the 14th A to the 6th. Seven different opinions. Too much to go through, but it does t matter. NY vs. DJT was a unanimous ruling by 12 jurors on 34 counts of the Dumbfvck promoting his election through false means. It wasn't 9-3 or 10-2 or some other supermajority, but 12 for 12 times 34.

You didn't read the case. You don't read case law. Ramos is about something very different from the NY Trump case that was required to (and had) a unanimous verdict for guilt. NY law required unanimity and the jury delivered just that. What the hell do you think all the "it only takes one for a hung jury" was all about? Rhetorical.

In case visual stuff didn't cut it, here is from 06.01.24 an Amicus podcast w/guest Ryan Goodman explaining the charged verdict. Edited for a little brevity and formatting w/only a few (added explanations): "...There was no way for them to reach a jury, a guilty verdict without passing through a box that they had to check off. And that box was, this was election fraud. So this is an election fraud case... ...They had to say to themselves that Donald Trump, beyond a reasonable doubt, caused business documents to be falsified. And those are the 34 counts with one check plus one check entered into the record two different ways. Falsified business records with an intent to commit or conceal another crime. (Ş 175.10) There’s only one other crime. That predicate crime is a New York election law, which is to use unlawful means to promote a candidate in an election. (Ş 17-152) And that’s it. So it’s falsifying business records with the intent to commit or conceal another crime. That other crime is unlawful means of promoting a candidate in the 2016 election. What does unlawful means mean? That’s where the jury did not need to be unanimous. There are three alternative pathways up the hill. And the three alternative pathways, or unlawful means, could have been one. Federal election law violations in the form of, for example, corporate giving to a candidate disallowed, or giving in excess of an individual’s maximum disallowed. And the $130,000 payment that Michael Cohen made was thousands of, not thousands, maybe thousands, hundreds of times greater than his maximum amount. So that’s one federal election. Second is tax fraud. They grossed him up in order to claim it as income. (this is about paying Cohen a lot of extra $$ to offset his increased tax liability) It wasn’t income. So the tax forms that they signed were fraudulent. And then the third is other false business records, of which there were a whole menu of options, including the invoice that the parent company for National Enquirer made, the false bank records that Cohen created to create these shell companies, et cetera. But it’s any one of those three counts, and the jury does not have to be unanimous, based on very longstanding New York law, on how these rules work in terms of the unanimity requirement." https://slate.com/transcripts/U1k3WlY0ejM4VDE1WCswMXJ4T0xybnB4ZzdiNEY2ODlrSHBwYkRRS2RTRT0=

I think I covered than more concisely. lol

What was presented in evidence at trial ended up showing w/overwhelming testimony and forensics, that it was all about the election. Ş 17-152 "...two or more persons who conspire to promote or prevent the election of any person to a public office by unlawful means and which conspiracy is acted upon..." and combined with Ş 175.10: "A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof"... I know when you listen to who you want to hear things can get confusing, but it's really easy to understand. All 12 jurors agreed on 34 counts where the two statutes were tied together. All of them because it was all about the election from Pecker's testimony on and through the forensics on the payments and records. The FECA, NY Tax fraud, and the side false records law (NY) are all underpinnings of the direct ties of the two statues. Appeal? That's in another thread.

Read that earlier this morning. Surprising the crime boss does crime things.

Beau won't show for an obvious reason, but I'm sure there are goobers wishing the LA trial was in Bumpkis, Alabama. Then again, it's a federal trial so no chance for red state prosecutor revenge.

Hunter Biden, under federal indictments and one after political pressure took back a plea deal, is also against weaponization of the courts and DoJ. I mean, when the AG opens up a separate catch all inquiry into all things Hunter (Barr did this) that's weaponization. Dad is probably against weaponization of Congress after the impeachment inquiry proved the biggest pile of and waste of time. As for the NY case, it's pretty simple. Trump violated Ş 175.10 + Ş 17-152. We know what he did. We know what was done. The NY Tax fraud aside, the 3rd party payment by Cohen was a FECA violation FEC 113.1 (g) (6): "Third party payments. Notwithstanding that the use of funds for a particular expense would be a personal use under this section, payment of that expense by any person other than the candidate or the campaign committee shall be a contribution under subpart B of part 100 to the candidate unless the payment would have been made irrespective of the candidacy." ...Generally, payments of expenses that would be personal use if made by the candidate or the candidate’s committee will be considered contributions to the candidate if made by a third party." Btw: From 2018 when you couldn't touch the sitting president. Too bad FECA is like the NCAA of federal agencies.

Goober state prosecutors getting revenge for Trump has to be one of the dumbest right wing talking points and sad wet dreams ever.

That's the problem with the Dems. Always late. The Soviets targeted Trump nearly 40 years earlier in the latter 1970s. Handed him off to Russia and they beat the Dems again.

You kind of got it then you dropped it.

It's one thing for Jesus to hang behind Trump, but Squidward? lol