194 replies to this topic

[loborick]

usually have something to hide. Nice remarks, Tim Hardaway. What skeletons are in your closet (pun intended)?

[MondoMiner]

It saddens and embarrases me as a UTEP fan and El Pasoan that Hardaway would say those things. Having spent four years in the diverse and tolerant community, and having been coached by a man who made one of the loudest statements against intolerance by winning the National Title in 1966, I would have never expected this.

[UTEPDallas]

It's embarrasing Hardaway made those comments. I'm sure the vast majority of UTEP fans don't share Hardaway's opinion on gays.

[utenation]

What did Tim say?

Link?

[Trueblue1]

What did Tim say?

Link?

http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=2766213

[UTEPDallas]

Updated: Feb. 15, 2007, 12:09 PM ET
Retired NBA star Hardaway says he hates 'gay people'ESPN.com news services


Former Miami Heat guard Tim Hardaway said on a radio show Wednesday afternoon that he would not want a gay player on his team.



Hardaway
"You know, I hate gay people, so I let it be known," Hardaway said. "I don't like gay people and I don't like to be around gay people. I am homophobic. I don't like it. It shouldn't be in the world or in the United States."

Hardaway was a guest of Miami Herald columnist Dan Le Batard on Miami sports radio station WAXY-AM and was asked how he would deal with a gay teammate. When asked if he would accept an active player's coming out, such as that of retired NBA center John Amaechi, Hardaway replied: "First of all, I wouldn't want him on my team.


Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

[afafan]

Tim Hardaway was a little harsh in his rhetoric – but he is correct to disapprove of Homosexual BEHAVIOR. It is destructive to both to individuals (high STD & Suicide rates), and societies (low birth rates). It is also destructive to teams as Eros destroys Philos.

You inject an openly gay man in the locker room, you might as well mandate universal co-ed showers. IF women were to make a professional team – would they be allowed to shower with the men? Did Katie Nida shower with the Lobos football team? Are the Lobos "Heterophobes?!" Of course the answer to all these is No - and the reason is because Sex matters. Sex is highly consequental, and can be very dangerous to physical and mental health. You don't take down the guardrails, or kid yourself into thinking a flimsey piece of latex is the answer.

[il_slinky]

I can't agree with a lot of what Tim Hardaway said because it is filled with Hate. While I disagree with being "gay", and I think it is a sin, I don't hate gay people. I think Tim should be able to express his opinion but he will have to accept the consequences of his right to speak.

Chris Broussard of ESPN wrote an excellent article on this subject.

"Since Amaechi came out, I've read lots of columns about being "progressive." The implication -- or outright assertion -- is that anyone who believes homosexuality is wrong is not progressive or enlightened.

That's where this thing becomes problematic, because those who hold to that view are saying I must change my entire belief system/religion because of your belief system.

Where's the diversity in that?

Those folks don't want diversity. They want everyone to agree with their "enlightened" opinion.

Look, I'll accept your right to have your own belief system and to live as you please, but I'm not changing mine. Diversity is not just accepting alternatives to what has long been perceived as normal, but it's accepting the significant number of people who hold to long-standing "traditional" beliefs as well.

Millions of Christians who follow the Bible -- and Muslims who follow the Koran and Jews who follow the Torah, as well as many nonreligious Americans -- believe homosexuality is wrong.

That doesn't mean they're unenlightened. That just means their moral code doesn't fluctuate based on society's ever-changing standards. As long as we're not being violent toward one another, as long as we can be civil, everything should be fine. We don't have to agree."

[Metallicat]

I agree completely with il slinky

[Cowboy Junky]

Whenever Wyoming played Utep, I hated Tim Hardaway's cross-over dribble.

[Aztec Cannon]

I'm alright with folks who don't think it's OK to be gay, they have a right to their opinion. However, the Bible states that God alone posesses the right to judge. I suggest that, religious or not, we all follow a couple of often overlooked items found in the Bible, "Love thy neighbor as thyself". That's not too hard to understand, is it? And, how about, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

[Vegas Ute]

Well if we are going to get philosophical the crux (to me) comes down to how society should try to govern thoughts vs. actions.

We can argue for days and nights about the particulars of actions but almost all reasonable people believe that societies have the right to condemn certain actions... It is not alright to rape, murder, discriminate in the work place, drive under the influence of drugs (legal and illegal), etc.

However the idea of a society trying to get into thought control causes me a lot more qualms... I even get nervous about "hate crimes" legislation. Society certainly has the right (even responsibility) to sanction persecution of any group but, the stereotypical PC liberal telling a religious right winger what to think is as foreign to my beliefs as some right winger trying to tell me or my family what is moral and what I should (have to) believe.

Then we have the free speech issue, is speech an action or thought? In some rare cases (yelling “fire” in a crowded movie theater) speech is a dangerous action and can/should be sanctioned. However when in doubt I think most of favor letting “the fools” rant, as long as we get to tell them how foolish they are just as loudly.

[catholicmat]

I think Slinky wrote it the best. I pretty much feel the same way.

I might be miss-reading this, but am I the only one that thought Tim might of been baited into saying what he said? When the radio announcer seemed to attack Tim, by saying he was beeing a "bigot?" Maybe I am wrong.

[Trueblue1]

its a touchy subject I mean I know I dont aprove but yah know what its like I go out of my way to not walk by them or be in the same room or something yah know

[utenation]

Millions of Christians who follow the Bible -- and Muslims who follow the Koran and Jews who follow the Torah, as well as many nonreligious Americans -- believe homosexuality is wrong.

There was a time when it was socially accepted that a black person couldn't fly an airplane as good as white pilots. Then came the Tuskegee Airman with one of the best kill ratios and bomber survivor rates for all of the Allied Forces..The US Government issued them the most modern airplane of the time, the P51 Mustang.. Not bad for dumb black guys...

General Patton once said on record black soldiers can't think as fast as white soldiers and wouldn't make good soldiers. Then when his forces were depleted, he called on the all black 761st Armored Divison left behind in the war at Fort Hood Texas. He heard their training was impeccable and all other reserves were already being used. Up 'til now most black soliders were thought to be good cooks or serve in labor intensive military jobs.. These tankers were thought to be the worst of the division until they started fighting.. After seeing what they could do, Patton moved them to the front lines in his section of the Battle of the Bulge... Many white, trapped US soldiers in Bastogne were shocked to see a black man rise from the innards of those tanks and ask them how they were doing..

The 761st was later given the Distingushed Presidential Unit Citation(one of the highest honors in the US service). President Clinton also gave the some of these soliders the Medal of Honor.. Interesting that people only saw a tank performing the duty
and not the man's color of their skin inside it.. Looks like Patton was wrong too..

Now, one of our modern stereotpyes is gay bashing.. Being "homophobic" is always trying to be justified and many people try to attach religion to it...

If you take off the homo and just leave phobic, it boils down to fear.. People are always going to fear what they don't understand... I would be willing to bet, many homophobics have done little to no research and have never approached the topic with an open mind or even sat down with a gay person looking at them in a basic human light...

If you feel it's right or wrong makes no difference. The problem is, these people just like blacks, are treated as less, not different.

[easybronc]

So where can I get a Tim Hardaway jersey?

[TheyRunninAgain]

I disagree with Hardaway's views, and afafan's views, in their entirity. What's happening to Hardaway, though, is the polar opposite of tolerance. As much as I disagree with him, he speaks for a hell of alot of athletes. I'm glad he said what he said and got the discussion out in the open. Shame on Stern for picking and choosing his tolerance according to political winds.

[Mr T]

There was a time when it was socially accepted that a black person couldn't fly an airplane as good as white pilots. Then came the Tuskegee Airman with one of the best kill ratios and bomber survivor rates for all of the Allied Forces..The US Government issued them the most modern airplane of the time, the P51 Mustang.. Not bad for dumb black guys...

General Patton once said on record black soldiers can't think as fast as white soldiers and wouldn't make good soldiers. Then when his forces were depleted, he called on the all black 761st Armored Divison left behind in the war at Fort Hood Texas. He heard their training was impeccable and all other reserves were already being used. Up 'til now most black soliders were thought to be good cooks or serve in labor intensive military jobs.. These tankers were thought to be the worst of the division until they started fighting.. After seeing what they could do, Patton moved them to the front lines in his section of the Battle of the Bulge... Many white, trapped US soldiers in Bastogne were shocked to see a black man rise from the innards of those tanks and ask them how they were doing..

The 761st was later given the Distingushed Presidential Unit Sitation(one of the highest honors in the US service). President Clinton also gave the some of these soliders the Medal of Honor.. Interesting that people only saw a tank performing the duty
and not the man's color of their skin inside it.. Looks like Patton was wrong too..

Now, one of our modern stereotpyes is gay bashing.. Being "homophobic" is always trying to be justified and many people try to attach religion to it...

If you take off the homo and just leave phobic, it boils down to fear.. People are always going to fear what they don't understand... I would be willing to bet, many homophobics have done little to no research and have never approached the topic with an open mind or even sat down with a gay person looking at them in a basic human light...

If you feel it's right or wrong makes no difference. The problem is, these people just like blacks, are treated as less, not different.

I'm still trying to find the similarity in what Tim Hardaway had to say and all this WWII stuff, could you help a brother out?

If you are trying to say that Gays are treated like Blacks, well you would be WRONG.

I suppose that Mr. Hardaway being black should dispel all similarities, right there. He was saying that he DOES not wish to be put in a situation where he feels like he is being forced to compromise his desires to not have a gay person checking him out in the locker room. Right wrong or indifferent that is what he is saying, I for one am glad that he at least got it out in the open for discussion.

[utenation]

I'm still trying to find the similarity in what Tim Hardaway had to say and all this WWII stuff, could you help a brother out?

If you are trying to say that Gays are treated like Blacks, well you would be WRONG.

I suppose that Mr. Hardaway being black should dispel all similarities, right there. He was saying that he DOES not wish to be put in a situation where he feels like he is being forced to compromise his desires to not have a gay person checking him out in the locker room. Right wrong or indifferent that is what he is saying, I for one am glad that he at least got it out in the open for discussion.

Perception is key and how you tackle phobias.. Don't take my words out of context.. If you don't understand the message, leave it at that.

[Mars]

There are 2 types of tolerance. One involves loving people no matter what they do, and treating them with kindness and respect, and that is missing from Hardaway's comments. The other is believing people should be able to do whatever they want with no consequences, and that type of immoral tolerance is far too abundant in modern American society. It is the 2nd type of tolerance that the world could do with a whole lot less of.

[il_slinky]

I might be miss-reading this, but am I the only one that thought Tim might of been baited into saying what he said? When the radio announcer seemed to attack Tim, by saying he was beeing a "bigot?" Maybe I am wrong.

I agree with this. Lebatard at the very end of the interview asked Timmy how he felt about Ameachi. He said, he didn't want a gay teammate, he didn't want to shower with one, and if he had one he wouldn't want to have anything to do with that person. I think those views are fine, maybe a little bit intolerant but Tim is entitled to feel that way. It definitely wouldn't be something that would get someone fired. However, then Lebatard stated that he was being a bigot. As soon as that came out Tim used the over the top language.

I just think that we need to stop asking every professional athlete what they think about having a gay athlete on their team. It doesn't need to be hashed out over and over. Ameachi was a mediocre basketball player who has now placed himself in the limelight because of something that has nothing to do with basketball. I wish Ameachi well, but I don't want to hear about his sexual orientation anymore.

[PHILLY_1982]

WOW! Intersesting topic.

As regards to Timmy's comments, he isn't alone in professional sports. I don't agree with his views, but just just as il slinky stated, I won't go out of my way make it hard for the gay in question on a team.

Coming from ABQ, there is a very diverse population that is very pro gay. So I guess locally it is socially acceptable. But In conservative areas of the U.S. it would be taboo to come out of the closet. Heck there are parts of the "Deep South" that still have racial tensions between whites and blacks.

Don't be fooled, guys. THis retired player isn't the only one, and Tim's comments is reason why no one has come out.

[suralexander]

There was a time when it was socially accepted that a black person couldn't fly an airplane as good as white pilots. Then came the Tuskegee Airman with one of the best kill ratios and bomber survivor rates for all of the Allied Forces..The US Government issued them the most modern airplane of the time, the P51 Mustang.. Not bad for dumb black guys...

General Patton once said on record black soldiers can't think as fast as white soldiers and wouldn't make good soldiers. Then when his forces were depleted, he called on the all black 761st Armored Divison left behind in the war at Fort Hood Texas. He heard their training was impeccable and all other reserves were already being used. Up 'til now most black soliders were thought to be good cooks or serve in labor intensive military jobs.. These tankers were thought to be the worst of the division until they started fighting.. After seeing what they could do, Patton moved them to the front lines in his section of the Battle of the Bulge... Many white, trapped US soldiers in Bastogne were shocked to see a black man rise from the innards of those tanks and ask them how they were doing..

The 761st was later given the Distingushed Presidential Unit Sitation(one of the highest honors in the US service). President Clinton also gave the some of these soliders the Medal of Honor.. Interesting that people only saw a tank performing the duty
and not the man's color of their skin inside it.. Looks like Patton was wrong too..

Now, one of our modern stereotpyes is gay bashing.. Being "homophobic" is always trying to be justified and many people try to attach religion to it...

If you take off the homo and just leave phobic, it boils down to fear.. People are always going to fear what they don't understand... I would be willing to bet, many homophobics have done little to no research and have never approached the topic with an open mind or even sat down with a gay person looking at them in a basic human light...

If you feel it's right or wrong makes no difference. The problem is, these people just like blacks, are treated as less, not different.

Well said with one difference being that being black is not an action. I think it is more than okay to judge someones actions it just may keep you alive in some circumstances. The color of someones skin is a non issue in terms of what kind of person he is. His actions will define him. And to be honest homo-sexuals are just gay. Really, they are just a bunch of flaming fairies. Seriously they beat to a different drum.

[utenation]

I wish Ameachi well, but I don't want to hear about his sexual orientation anymore.

I couldn't agree more.. What a lame attmept to sell books.

[utenation]

Well said with one difference being that being black is not an action.

If you ask any gay person, it's not really a choice. It's something that comes as natural as liking women.. The term "come out" means denying what you've wanted to be for some time. The real you.

I used to think this way... "Why do they choose to be like that as a man?" In many gay people, there is specific mannerisms that are often associated with gay... Clothes, body language and voice tone... Almost feminine, right? How much of that is choice versus a genetic difference?