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big 12 expansion

and Banowsky their new comish

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#1 sfcal

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 03:46 AM

http://blog.newsok.c...more-expansion/

Wouldn't it be ironic if Britton Banowsky(son of an Oklahoma president) becomes the Big 12 commissioner, invites Louisville sparking another wave of realignment and Craig Thompson(alum of Minnesota) rumored to be the next Minnesota AD, does so? then we would be looking for a new commish, while losing out on Temple going to the Big East to replace Louisville and make up a 2012 schedule. and minus Temple we need yet another school in the C-USA East division. it seems the big 12 presidents are waiting for a new commissioner before expanding to 11/12 and inviting Louisville and/or anyone else. so then does that mean would Chuck Neinas be our new commissioner? lol

#2 RebelRobert

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 04:02 AM

MWC Presidents and Athletic Directors need to take a realistic look at the landscape and make smart moves based on strategy instead of reacting out of fear.

We do NOT want to align with CDOA leftovers. Southern Miss, Rice, Tulane, ECU, Marshall, UAB and Tulsa offer us NOTHING!

The smart and only move for the MWC is to back out of this ridiculous merger idea IMMEDIATELY and instead invite UTEP and SJSU to the MWC to create a stable 10 team conference.

MWC-10
UNLV
Nevada
Hawaii
Fresno
SJSU
New Mexico
UTEP
Air Force
Colorado St.
Wyoming

This way you leave the door open for Boise/SDSU to rejoin in a couple of years when they realize what a disasterous mess they got themselves into.

MWC-12 by 2015

West
UNLV
Nevada
SDSU
Fresno
SJSU
Hawaii

Mountain
Air Force
Boise
Colorado St.
Wyoming
New Mexico
UTEP

Use your brain MWC Presidents. Why destroy our conference to join with CDOA Leftovers that add nothing? They are not our RIVALS. TV does NOT want to show them. They do not HELP US at ALL. Nobody is interested in playing them or WATCHING those lousy CDOA teams, not even their own fans!

Please stop acting out of FEAR. Do not kill our Conference to join with LOSERS.

Save the MWC. Live by the TV contract that you SIGNED and AGREED to. Be Professional.

Invite SJSU and UTEP and lets keep the MWC rocking. SDSU and Boise will be back in three years or less. Mark my words!

#3 Joe from WY

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 04:09 AM

Robert, you're on the $$$ with your post/idea.

#4 BSUFiend

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 04:47 AM

Never ever thought I would agree with Rebel Robert, but this time he's right. The MW should not create that monstrosity of a conference. The MW schools are in a much stronger position.
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#5 lobo-tomy

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 04:53 AM

Not sure what is wrong with you guys, Rebel Robert is always right, this time included. :)
Out of my mind for the Lobos!!

#6 Warbow

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:21 AM

Same TV contract = Fail.

Disclaimer: Any views or opinions presented by this poster (Warbow) are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Univesity of Hawaii or it's loyal fans. All quotes and opinions from Warbow are valid for 30 days following the date of post transmission and are subject to change at any time. All information published herein by Warbow is gathered from his own opinions or sources which are thought to be reliable, but the reader should not assume that the information is official or fact.


#7 #1Stunner

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:56 AM


This way you leave the door open for Boise/SDSU to rejoin in a couple of years when they realize what a disasterous mess they got themselves into.

MWC-12

West
UNLV
Nevada
SDSU
Fresno
SJSU
Hawaii
Utah State


Mountain
Air Force
Boise
Colorado St.
Wyoming
New Mexico
UTEP
Louisiana Tech or New Mexico State or UTSA

Invite SJSU and UTEP and lets keep the MWC rocking. SDSU and Boise will be back in three years or less. Mark my words!


I like your plan, but I think the MWC should add 12 teams right off the bat, because as a mid-level conference it cannot afford to pass up the revenue of a Conference Championship game in football. 12 teams is also better for playing 8 conference games---allows more BCS school out of conference games, and keeps Air Force happy.

Then, when/if the new Big East goes bust, the conference expands to 14, and easily absorbs Boise and SDSU.

14 works because the conference is regional (i.e., it won't be WAC 2.0).

#8 CaffeinatedCoog

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 07:28 AM

My understanding is that the West division of the new conference will essentially be the current MW with UTEP and maybe one or two more additions from the west (I think Utah St was mentioned). There would be minimal or no crossover games and divisional play for non-revenue sports. Seems you essentially keep your conrerence and get a better TV contract in the Alliance deal. Functionally, theres really little difference from the current set up.

#9 av-rated

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 07:38 AM

My understanding is that the West division of the new conference will essentially be the current MW with UTEP and maybe one or two more additions from the west (I think Utah St was mentioned). There would be minimal or no crossover games and divisional play for non-revenue sports. Seems you essentially keep your conrerence and get a better TV contract in the Alliance deal. Functionally, theres really little difference from the current set up.


This. It may seem funky when talking about the numbers of teams as a whole, but the western component really is just a marginally expanded MWC and far more regionalized than the Western BE. If the net $$ gain is better, it's sort of stupid not to do it. If the sh.it hits the fan down the road, something (or two) can/will emerge out west. I don't think the risk is that great in the merger for the non-moving MWC teams.

#10 TheSwex

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 07:55 AM

Wow. Robert actually included Wyoming in his plans. There might be a massive blizzard coming in soon.

#11 CaffeinatedCoog

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:08 AM

One more thing. The ECU chancellor mentioned that one of the complicating factors that they want to get right is the "assighnment of rights". Thats what the Big-12 did with thier tier-one Tv rights. The assighnment of rights is where the teams each sign over thier TV rights to the confernece. This makes member schools essentially useless to another conference since they no longer own thier TV rights for a given period of time and connot produce TV income for any other conference. If the Alliance does that, you can pretty much rest easy that you will no longer see teams poached from the Allaince. This could be huge for the new conference going forward. How strong would both the MW and CUSA be today had not some of thier best teams been poached over the last few waves of realighnment?

#12 DrBulldog

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 09:12 AM

One more thing. The ECU chancellor mentioned that one of the complicating factors that they want to get right is the "assighnment of rights". Thats what the Big-12 did with thier tier-one Tv rights. The assighnment of rights is where the teams each sign over thier TV rights to the confernece. This makes member schools essentially useless to another conference since they no longer own thier TV rights for a given period of time and connot produce TV income for any other conference. If the Alliance does that, you can pretty much rest easy that you will no longer see teams poached from the Allaince. This could be huge for the new conference going forward. How strong would both the MW and CUSA be today had not some of thier best teams been poached over the last few waves of realighnment?

That kind of contract better have some real dollars attached to it.......

#13 sfcal

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 10:17 AM

Coog makes a very good point, but nobody thought Utah would get in the Pac, TCU the Longhorn 12, Boise the Big East, etc
I imagine they schools would only do it know if they had reliable predictions of their revenue gain or else they're leaving money on the table for a bad contract, like MWC did in the past...but this realignment isn't over, and if Louisville goes to the Big XII, followed by Cincinnati, the whole domino effect begins again. if Temple had to sign over all their tv rights knowing their the next best candidate in line to replace a full sports member of the Big East, then they'll bide their time..I'm sure East Carolina hasn't changed their own opinions about a berth in the Big East if need be for the Big East to keep adding more schools to get to 12...the likelihood of that happening is less than just a swap Temple for Louisville but who knows..

the Big East could look like this by 2015 when Navy joins:
Boise (football only)
Houston
Memphis
San Diego St (football only)
SMU
BYU (football only still a possibility if they get every demand they want, which they didnt when the big east offered. Mendenhall and Holmoe like AQ if it still exists, title game, boise rivalry, being in a conference with all their needs met)

East CarolinaVillanova
Central Florida
South Florida
Navy (football only)
Temple
UMass (football only, they need football in markets like boston)
or the wildcard Villanova, which could replace East Carolina or UMass and become an instant full sports member.
I think they bring better basketball and market than ECU, so they have advantage there who knows, this league would have boise, houston, memphis, san diego, dallas, salt lake city, orlando, tampa, baltimore, philly and boston markets...not too bad?

the catholic 8(including villanova) + houston, smu, memphis, c florida, s florida, temple means they still outnumber the expansion schools 8-6 keeping control of their league

#14 HawaiiMongoose

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 11:30 AM

Same TV contract = Fail.


Exactly right. I saw in one of the articles about the merger that CBS does in fact have the right to extend the current MWC contract through 2020. That's a pitiful $12 million per year, for 100% of the conference's tier 1, tier 2, and tier 3 broadcast rights, for another EIGHT years. Not only will BSU and SDSU not come back, but every school in the MWC will be seeking Big East membership or whatever alternative is available to get out. The MWC cannot remain stable with the current TV deal and needs to go through with the merger to kill it.

#15 BCS member

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 01:41 PM

MWC Presidents and Athletic Directors need to take a realistic look at the landscape and make smart moves based on strategy instead of reacting out of fear.

We do NOT want to align with CDOA leftovers. Southern Miss, Rice, Tulane, ECU, Marshall, UAB and Tulsa offer us NOTHING!

The smart and only move for the MWC is to back out of this ridiculous merger idea IMMEDIATELY and instead invite UTEP and SJSU to the MWC to create a stable 10 team conference.

MWC-10
UNLV
Nevada
Hawaii
Fresno
SJSU
New Mexico
UTEP
Air Force
Colorado St.
Wyoming

This way you leave the door open for Boise/SDSU to rejoin in a couple of years when they realize what a disasterous mess they got themselves into.

MWC-12 by 2015

West
UNLV
Nevada
SDSU
Fresno
SJSU
Hawaii

Mountain
Air Force
Boise
Colorado St.
Wyoming
New Mexico
UTEP

Use your brain MWC Presidents. Why destroy our conference to join with CDOA Leftovers that add nothing? They are not our RIVALS. TV does NOT want to show them. They do not HELP US at ALL. Nobody is interested in playing them or WATCHING those lousy CDOA teams, not even their own fans!

Please stop acting out of FEAR. Do not kill our Conference to join with LOSERS.

Save the MWC. Live by the TV contract that you SIGNED and AGREED to. Be Professional.

Invite SJSU and UTEP and lets keep the MWC rocking. SDSU and Boise will be back in three years or less. Mark my words!

This is absolutely the smartest post I've ever read on this message board. I think it is dead on accurate.

#16 westfan

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 07:18 PM

Exactly right. I saw in one of the articles about the merger that CBS does in fact have the right to extend the current MWC contract through 2020. That's a pitiful $12 million per year, for 100% of the conference's tier 1, tier 2, and tier 3 broadcast rights, for another EIGHT years. Not only will BSU and SDSU not come back, but every school in the MWC will be seeking Big East membership or whatever alternative is available to get out. The MWC cannot remain stable with the current TV deal and needs to go through with the merger to kill it.


I'm no contract law guy, but I don't understand why the presidents don't have Thompson (maybe they already have) contact CBSSports and NBCSports to see if they are willing to modify the existing contracts and add more revenue. The networks have to know they will be put in a potential bidding position against each other if the MWC disolves into a new conference. Thompson could talk to them about different scenarios, adding UTEP, Tulsa, USU, SJSU a championship game ect. The worse that will happen is the NBC and CBS networks say we have no interest and the CUSA/ MWC merger continues.It's possible the networks see more advertising value in the bay area and Salt Lake markets even if it means adding SJSU and USU.

#17 CPslograd

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 07:32 PM

Exactly right. I saw in one of the articles about the merger that CBS does in fact have the right to extend the current MWC contract through 2020. That's a pitiful $12 million per year, for 100% of the conference's tier 1, tier 2, and tier 3 broadcast rights, for another EIGHT years. Not only will BSU and SDSU not come back, but every school in the MWC will be seeking Big East membership or whatever alternative is available to get out. The MWC cannot remain stable with the current TV deal and needs to go through with the merger to kill it.


If it is true that the current contract can be extended through 2020, then there is no choice but the merger. I don't like it, but that is the reality.

Maybe you haven't been keeping up on current events but we just got our azzes kicked.


#18 No_dogs_down

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:07 PM

This is absolutely the smartest post I've ever read on this message board. I think it is dead on accurate.

Not if we have to live with the current tV contract until 2020...

#19 Boise fan

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:38 PM

I never understand why people encourage RR...

This is the guy who stated that BSU FB belonged in the Big Sky. That we should never have been part of the MWC. The same guy who wanted AF to fly away and never come back. The same guy who until now has never included Wyoming in his hallucinations plans.

Seriously guys, listening to RR is hazardous to your health! It can cause irreparable brain damage! It can cause serious damage to your message board reputations! Just say no to RR!

:P
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BCS is to Football what Fox News is to Journalism

#20 SleepingGiantsFan

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:42 PM

Robert, you're on the $$$ with your post/idea.

Yes, he is. Robert doesn't have the best rep here because some of his stuff is so out there but why any MWC fan would support the TurdBlossom thing is beyond me.

Oh and BTW. Is it any wonder Banowski's name is being mentioned more and more as the next B12 commissioner? That guy deserves major props for having taken the leftovers of a conference which was inferior to the MWC before they ever left and somehow convinced the MWC to merge with them. It's damned astounding is what it is.
Boom goes the dynamite.

#21 RebelRobert

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 10:30 PM

The Presidents should inact a new Conference Bylaw that we are not allowed to sign a TV contract that is over five years. What looks good today, likely won't look as good tomorrow. No more long term TV contracts. They cause long term problems.

Anyone else find it interesting that Craig Thompson and his butt buddy Britton Banowsky are likely both going to be offered some sort of BCS jobs in the next month or two? I find it interesting.

The last two times major changes to the BCS system occurred 1998 and 2012 it just so happened that our conferences were in turmoil and we were in the middle of forming some sort of new alliances with eachother. Makes it easier for the big boys to leave us out of the talks because they just say that we aren't a conference and have to prove ourselves before we are included. Makes me think this might be a part of their plans. Conspiracy theories, I know, I know. Just seems awfully strange to me that both Conference commissioners are offered BCS jobs after coming up with the most ridiculous alliance idea ever PRESENTED.

The smart move and the right move for the MWC is to forget about the CDOA merger. We should instead live up to the TV contract that we signed and agreed to. We should invite UTEP and SJSU to be a strong MWC-10. We should act like leaders. We should have morals and show our student athletes that you don't RUN AWAY from contracts that you sign or try to find the easy way out. You don't make ridiculous mergers with people who have nothing in common with you just for MONEY. You don't sell your soul and turn on your friends. You don't like a rat and abandon a ship that isn't SINKING. You don't try and find loopholes to sneak out of contracts that you signed.

The MWC is in good shape. We just need to add programs, not kill off our great conference. We do NOT need to join forces with CDOA. Everyone I have talked to thinks this is a desperation move brought on by FEAR. We all know it won't last three years. It is a horrible attempt to be deceitful and try to get out of a contract that we SIGNED. It is flat out WRONG. I do not support it and anyone who does is a skunk. The right thing RIGHT NOW is to add SJSU and UTEP. Act like professionals and suffer through the contract that we signed. When it is over, you make sure you don't make the same mistakes in the future. You don't kill a perfectly good conference and join up with eight losers from CDOA that we have nothing in common with just so that you can be deceitful and act like a snake!

Somebody has to stand up and say that this is WRONG. It is unethical and I don't want these people around our young Student Athletes if this is the way they behave!

#22 #1Stunner

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 02:29 AM

The Presidents should inact a new Conference Bylaw that we are not allowed to sign a TV contract that is over five years. What looks good today, likely won't look as good tomorrow. No more long term TV contracts. They cause long term problems.

Anyone else find it interesting that Craig Thompson and his butt buddy Britton Banowsky are likely both going to be offered some sort of BCS jobs in the next month or two? I find it interesting.

The last two times major changes to the BCS system occurred 1998 and 2012 it just so happened that our conferences were in turmoil and we were in the middle of forming some sort of new alliances with eachother. Makes it easier for the big boys to leave us out of the talks because they just say that we aren't a conference and have to prove ourselves before we are included. Makes me think this might be a part of their plans. Conspiracy theories, I know, I know. Just seems awfully strange to me that both Conference commissioners are offered BCS jobs after coming up with the most ridiculous alliance idea ever PRESENTED.

The smart move and the right move for the MWC is to forget about the CDOA merger. We should instead live up to the TV contract that we signed and agreed to. We should invite UTEP and SJSU to be a strong MWC-10. We should act like leaders. We should have morals and show our student athletes that you don't RUN AWAY from contracts that you sign or try to find the easy way out. You don't make ridiculous mergers with people who have nothing in common with you just for MONEY. You don't sell your soul and turn on your friends. You don't like a rat and abandon a ship that isn't SINKING. You don't try and find loopholes to sneak out of contracts that you signed.

The MWC is in good shape. We just need to add programs, not kill off our great conference. We do NOT need to join forces with CDOA. Everyone I have talked to thinks this is a desperation move brought on by FEAR. We all know it won't last three years. It is a horrible attempt to be deceitful and try to get out of a contract that we SIGNED. It is flat out WRONG. I do not support it and anyone who does is a skunk. The right thing RIGHT NOW is to add SJSU and UTEP. Act like professionals and suffer through the contract that we signed. When it is over, you make sure you don't make the same mistakes in the future. You don't kill a perfectly good conference and join up with eight losers from CDOA that we have nothing in common with just so that you can be deceitful and act like a snake!

Somebody has to stand up and say that this is WRONG. It is unethical and I don't want these people around our young Student Athletes if this is the way they behave!


While your general thoughts are spot on (i.e. avoid the CUSA merger), you have to remember that the TV partners have not acted in good faith. They (comcast) have found loopholes, and not delivered on promises with the TV contract. They have not tried to expand the reach of the MTN channel. They have not allowed rebroadcasts of games. They have not allowed the schools to broadcast games they have elected not to show. Now the schools are left to suffer because of it.

The TV partners (comcast) have used the MTN to drive cable TV subscriptions. The MTN could be available nationwide, in full HD, tomorrow if Comcast wanted by offering though streaming devices like Roku, Google TV, Apple TV, etc. This (streaming) was promised but not delivered.

Also, many of the new additions (Fresno, Hawaii, Nevada, etc) didn't sign that contract. The contract should be renegotiated at least. The schools have lost money and fans (exposure) because of it.

#23 Joe from WY

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 07:51 AM

The Presidents should inact a new Conference Bylaw that we are not allowed to sign a TV contract that is over five years. What looks good today, likely won't look as good tomorrow. No more long term TV contracts. They cause long term problems.

Anyone else find it interesting that Craig Thompson and his butt buddy Britton Banowsky are likely both going to be offered some sort of BCS jobs in the next month or two? I find it interesting.

The last two times major changes to the BCS system occurred 1998 and 2012 it just so happened that our conferences were in turmoil and we were in the middle of forming some sort of new alliances with eachother. Makes it easier for the big boys to leave us out of the talks because they just say that we aren't a conference and have to prove ourselves before we are included. Makes me think this might be a part of their plans. Conspiracy theories, I know, I know. Just seems awfully strange to me that both Conference commissioners are offered BCS jobs after coming up with the most ridiculous alliance idea ever PRESENTED.

The smart move and the right move for the MWC is to forget about the CDOA merger. We should instead live up to the TV contract that we signed and agreed to. We should invite UTEP and SJSU to be a strong MWC-10. We should act like leaders. We should have morals and show our student athletes that you don't RUN AWAY from contracts that you sign or try to find the easy way out. You don't make ridiculous mergers with people who have nothing in common with you just for MONEY. You don't sell your soul and turn on your friends. You don't like a rat and abandon a ship that isn't SINKING. You don't try and find loopholes to sneak out of contracts that you signed.

The MWC is in good shape. We just need to add programs, not kill off our great conference. We do NOT need to join forces with CDOA. Everyone I have talked to thinks this is a desperation move brought on by FEAR. We all know it won't last three years. It is a horrible attempt to be deceitful and try to get out of a contract that we SIGNED. It is flat out WRONG. I do not support it and anyone who does is a skunk. The right thing RIGHT NOW is to add SJSU and UTEP. Act like professionals and suffer through the contract that we signed. When it is over, you make sure you don't make the same mistakes in the future. You don't kill a perfectly good conference and join up with eight losers from CDOA that we have nothing in common with just so that you can be deceitful and act like a snake!

Somebody has to stand up and say that this is WRONG. It is unethical and I don't want these people around our young Student Athletes if this is the way they behave!

Robert's launching bombs tonight. Good stuff, Rob.

#24 CaffeinatedCoog

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 08:41 AM

Essentially, the entire Mountain West collapse can be layed at the feet of the currnet TV deal and Thompson. My understanding is this deal was never even seen by the schools prior to being agreed to. The commisioners office sent out a memorandum of understanding to the schools that layed out the contract details and gave the commisioner the power to accept the contract. Unfortunately, the memorandum was faulty and incorrect in a number of issues. These inaccuracies directly led to the departure of BYU. The poor contract in general, has been cited by every school as the reason for leaving. If Rebel Robert wants to keep it, then let UNLV and whatever Sunbelt/WAC schools who are willing to play for nothing form a conference with them.

The CUSA/MW merger allows the MW to essentially operate as it always has--but with a larger contract. Additionally, the assighnment of rights gives the new conference freedom from future raids. That allows the new association a more secure enviroment in which to grow and mature over time into a solid BCS quality league. The only glaring mistake I see them making at this point is putting Thompson in charge. Given that the entire destruction of the conference can laid at his feet, I cant for the life of me see why he would be placed back in charge. Its like giving the Captain of the Exxon Valdez the keys to a shiney new tanker.

#25 Billings

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 08:48 AM

Essentially, the entire Mountain West collapse can be layed at the feet of the currnet TV deal and Thompson. My understanding is this deal was never even seen by the schools prior to being agreed to. The commisioners office sent out a memorandum of understanding to the schools that layed out the contract details and gave the commisioner the power to accept the contract. Unfortunately, the memorandum was faulty and incorrect in a number of issues. These inaccuracies directly led to the departure of BYU. The poor contract in general, has been cited by every school as the reason for leaving. If Rebel Robert wants to keep it, then let UNLV and whatever Sunbelt/WAC schools who are willing to play for nothing form a conference with them.

The CUSA/MW merger allows the MW to essentially operate as it always has--but with a larger contract. Additionally, the assighnment of rights gives the new conference freedom from future raids. That allows the new association a more secure enviroment in which to grow and mature over time into a solid BCS quality league. The only glaring mistake I see them making at this point is putting Thompson in charge. Given that the entire destruction of the conference can laid at his feet, I cant for the life of me see why he would be placed back in charge. Its like giving the Captain of the Exxon Valdez the keys to a shiney new tanker.



NAH. UTAH left for PAC money, TCU was leaving for money. etc. Teams left for more TV money and the AQ brand. No matter what TV contract we had it would not matched the top 5 conferences or BYU indy ESPN deal. People can blame the TV contract all they want, and maybe it played a role here, but to say it is the main reason why the conference fell apart is just BS.

NO TV Contract was keeping Utah
No TV contract was keeping TCU
Once UTAH left no TV contract was keeping BYU
Boise has been having wet dreams about AQ stats forever and took teh shot, although a long one, that they keep it or something like it.

Maybe SDSU would have stayed but I have my doubts