Wyovanian Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Worst incident in the history of the mountain. Twelve Sherpa guides confirmed dead, four still missing after an avalanche in the lower Khumbu Ice Fall as the climbing season gets into full swing. These are incredibly brave, hard-working men who scrape out a living helping comparably wealthy people reach the summit. Thoughts and prayers to the families, survivors, and the people who bore witness to this event... Aash Bahadur Gurung- MISSING Ang Kaji Sherpa Ang Tshiri Sherpa Ankaji Sherpa- MISSING Asman Tonang Chhiring Ongchu Sherpa Dorji Sherpa Dorji Khatri Sherpa Lakpa Tenjing Sherpa Nima Sherpa Pasang Karma Sherpa Pem Tenji Sherpa- MISSING Phur Temba Sherpa Phurba Ongyal Sherpa Tenzing Chottar Sherpa- MISSING Then Dorjee Sherpa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Coast Aztec Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I read about that. Messing with nature is a risk, but that is plain shiddy to hear about. That's a ton of sherpas too. Navigating some daredevils had better pay well. Prayers sent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawlorfaithful Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 That really sucks. Reading about Everest, the Khumbu Icefall always seemed the most dangerous part of the journey; even more so than the death zone higher up. We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Bauer Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I would be afraid to ever attempt something like that. After reading "Into Thin Air" and reading about how people felt and how they go nuts at that altitude, the whole thing just sounds insane to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old_SD_Dude Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I think it's an industry that needs to be shut down. People in good physical condition and with disposable income want to climb Everest. People die getting them up there. Sometimes the wealthy climbers or the guides die. Give it a rest. Hike in the Sierras or Rockies. Thay Haif Said: Quhat Say Thay? Lat Thame Say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOUNMLOBOS Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 The icefall itself really is more dangerous, just because you don't know when that sh!i is gonna move. The problem with being in the death zone though, is that you're usually there with a bunch of people, which slows you down. The Sherpas aren't getting paid all that much, according to this article: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/19/world/asia/fatal-avalanche-on-mount-everest.html. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawlorfaithful Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 The icefall itself really is more dangerous, just because you don't know when that sh!i is gonna move. The problem with being in the death zone though, is that you're usually there with a bunch of people, which slows you down. The Sherpas aren't getting paid all that much, according to this article: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/19/world/asia/fatal-avalanche-on-mount-everest.html. Yeah. The danger of the Icefall will always be a temptation of luck and fate. Sometimes there is nothing to be done. But you're spot on about the dangers of the death zone. Too many people are allowed to attempt Everest. We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCDigger Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I think it's an industry that needs to be shut down. People in good physical condition and with disposable income want to climb Everest. People die getting them up there. Sometimes the wealthy climbers or the guides die. Give it a rest. Hike in the Sierras or Rockies. SMH.........fuggin' libs. Takeaway the freedom to walk up a mountain? Because some people die? They went there to challenge death and take the risk. Leave it to the entitled to not understand why man climbs mountains. FYI, people don't fly into Everest and put a pack on and start climbing. They spend weeks and even months in training at the base, they know the risk, they see the bodies along the trail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old_SD_Dude Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 SMH.........fuggin' libs. Takeaway the freedom to walk up a mountain? Because some people die? They went there to challenge death and take the risk. Leave it to the entitled to not understand why man climbs mountains. FYI, people don't fly into Everest and put a pack on and start climbing. They spend weeks and even months in training at the base, they know the risk, they see the bodies along the trail. Read Krakauer's book if you haven't. Climbers pay money, but not all of them are prepared. People die as a result. I've climbed plenty of mountains. Thay Haif Said: Quhat Say Thay? Lat Thame Say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOUNMLOBOS Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 The biggest issue I have with Everest right now is that the majority of the clients are not prepared mentally for the climb. Sure, they have to be physically fit enough. For the most part they don't have the climbing experience and the experience with oxygen deprivation that you face that high up to be able to make the decisions in a rational manner. It has gotten clients, team personnel and Sherpas killed in the past, and it will surely happen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCDigger Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Read Krakauer's book if you haven't. Climbers pay money, but not all of them are prepared. People die as a result.I've climbed plenty of mountains. Yeah ....well you should stop, because your mountian climbing is dangerous and kills people. More regulation! Someone died. So did you tip your sherpa or do you look at them as being evil murderers? Kinda like how you look at licensed gun dealers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Bauer Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 The biggest issue I have with Everest right now is that the majority of the clients are not prepared mentally for the climb. Sure, they have to be physically fit enough. For the most part they don't have the climbing experience and the experience with oxygen deprivation that you face that high up to be able to make the decisions in a rational manner. It has gotten clients, team personnel and Sherpas killed in the past, and it will surely happen again. I think a lot of them are not prepared physically either. When a sherpa is dragging your ass up the hill because you're too tired and groggy to do it yourself, then you need to go back down and bust your ass the next year or two to get in to good enough shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old_SD_Dude Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I think a lot of them are not prepared physically either. When a sherpa is dragging your ass up the hill because you're too tired and groggy to do it yourself, then you need to go back down and bust your ass the next year or two to get in to good enough shape.Problem is, they paid their $100K this year and expect to have their ass dragged up as opposed to having to prepare (and pay) for another year. Thay Haif Said: Quhat Say Thay? Lat Thame Say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Bauer Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Problem is, they paid their $100K this year and expect to have their ass dragged up as opposed to having to prepare (and pay) for another year. It's amazing, there's guys who are in the top 1% of fitness in the world, and they go up there and have heart attacks because it's so strenuous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOUNMLOBOS Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 It's amazing, there's guys who are in the top 1% of fitness in the world, and they go up there and have heart attacks because it's so strenuous. Again, its all about preparation. I've read many books written about climbing Everest and other 8,000 meter peaks. In those anyway, it seemed like you earned your stripes climbing things in the Andes, Mexico, Alaska and even lower Himalayan peaks before trying one of the big ones. But many of them were written years ago. Things have changed a lot in terms of climbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renoskier Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 It's amazing, there's guys who are in the top 1% of fitness in the world, and they go up there and have heart attacks because it's so strenuous. I disagree with a few of the posts that express a belief that a lot of the current climbers aren't properly prepared. I would say that almost all of them are very well prepared and know exactly what they are getting into. Many of those who have died on Everest have been world class mountaineers. It's just a very dangerous place regardless of fitness level. In 1985, a good friend's bother died on Everest; he was 23, incredibly fit and an experienced climber. He had no plans on making a summit attempt but was making the trek to Camp 2 at just over 21,000 ft. He became ill with, I believe, Pulmonary edema and died before they could get him to a lower elevation. Here's a good article about the 2013 climbing season: http://www.alanarnette.com/blog/2013/06/03/everest-2013-season-recap/ Here's part of it: Everest 2013 was a good year for most climbers but a difficult one for the professionals. Overall it could be termed a normal year with little drama with one large exception. As of February 2014, the final 2013 numbers on the Himalayan Database showed that 658 climbers made the summit. There were 539 from the south and 119 from the north side. 9 did not use supplemental oxygen and there were 8 confirmed deaths. This brings the total summits to be around 6,871 by 4,042 different climbers, meaning that 2,739 climbers, mostly Sherpa, have multiple summits. The south side (Nepal) remains more popular with 4,416 summits while the north (Tibet) has 2,455 summits. Overall 248 people (161 westerners and 87 Sherpas) have died on Everest from 1921 to 2013, 140 on the Nepal side and 108 from Tibet. Since 1990, the deaths as a percentage of summits have dropped to 3.6% due to better gear, weather forecasting and more people climbing with commercial operations. Annapurna is the deadliest 8000 meter mountain with a summit to death ratio of 2:1 deaths for every summit (109:55). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Bauer Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I disagree with a few of the posts that express a belief that a lot of the current climbers aren't properly prepared. I would say that almost all of them are very well prepared and know exactly what they are getting into. Many of those who have died on Everest have been world class mountaineers. It's just a very dangerous place regardless of fitness level. In 1985, a good friend's bother died on Everest; he was 23, incredibly fit and an experienced climber. He had no plans on making a summit attempt but was making the trek to Camp 2 at just over 21,000 ft. He became ill with, I believe, Pulmonary edema and died before they could get him to a lower elevation. Here's a good article about the 2013 climbing season: http://www.alanarnette.com/blog/2013/06/03/everest-2013-season-recap/ Here's part of it: Everest 2013 was a good year for most climbers but a difficult one for the professionals. Overall it could be termed a normal year with little drama with one large exception. As of February 2014, the final 2013 numbers on the Himalayan Database showed that 658 climbers made the summit. There were 539 from the south and 119 from the north side. 9 did not use supplemental oxygen and there were 8 confirmed deaths. This brings the total summits to be around 6,871 by 4,042 different climbers, meaning that 2,739 climbers, mostly Sherpa, have multiple summits. The south side (Nepal) remains more popular with 4,416 summits while the north (Tibet) has 2,455 summits. Overall 248 people (161 westerners and 87 Sherpas) have died on Everest from 1921 to 2013, 140 on the Nepal side and 108 from Tibet. Since 1990, the deaths as a percentage of summits have dropped to 3.6% due to better gear, weather forecasting and more people climbing with commercial operations. Annapurna is the deadliest 8000 meter mountain with a summit to death ratio of 2:1 deaths for every summit (109:55). I'm not purporting to be an expert on this stuff. Pulmonary or cerebral edema can happen to anyone regardless of fitness level. When I was reading the Krakauer book, it just seemed like some of the teams had climbers that needed a lot of personal attention or weren't in the necessary condition to be up there but had paid a bunch of cash so they were giving it a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renoskier Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I'm not purporting to be an expert on this stuff. Pulmonary or cerebral edema can happen to anyone regardless of fitness level. When I was reading the Krakauer book, it just seemed like some of the teams had climbers that needed a lot of personal attention or weren't in the necessary condition to be up there but had paid a bunch of cash so they were giving it a go. I haven't read the book but concede that there may be some truth to your statement. At the same time, it's interesting that the "death rate" has been declining. edit: I think it says something about the activity when they keep track of death rates/summit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HR_Poke Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I disagree with a few of the posts that express a belief that a lot of the current climbers aren't properly prepared. I would say that almost all of them are very well prepared and know exactly what they are getting into. Many of those who have died on Everest have been world class mountaineers. It's just a very dangerous place regardless of fitness level. In 1985, a good friend's bother died on Everest; he was 23, incredibly fit and an experienced climber. He had no plans on making a summit attempt but was making the trek to Camp 2 at just over 21,000 ft. He became ill with, I believe, Pulmonary edema and died before they could get him to a lower elevation. Here's a good article about the 2013 climbing season: http://www.alanarnette.com/blog/2013/06/03/everest-2013-season-recap/ Here's part of it: Everest 2013 was a good year for most climbers but a difficult one for the professionals. Overall it could be termed a normal year with little drama with one large exception. As of February 2014, the final 2013 numbers on the Himalayan Database showed that 658 climbers made the summit. There were 539 from the south and 119 from the north side. 9 did not use supplemental oxygen and there were 8 confirmed deaths. This brings the total summits to be around 6,871 by 4,042 different climbers, meaning that 2,739 climbers, mostly Sherpa, have multiple summits. The south side (Nepal) remains more popular with 4,416 summits while the north (Tibet) has 2,455 summits. Overall 248 people (161 westerners and 87 Sherpas) have died on Everest from 1921 to 2013, 140 on the Nepal side and 108 from Tibet. Since 1990, the deaths as a percentage of summits have dropped to 3.6% due to better gear, weather forecasting and more people climbing with commercial operations. Annapurna is the deadliest 8000 meter mountain with a summit to death ratio of 2:1 deaths for every summit (109:55). I agree most of the people climbing are highly experienced but still die. Heck look at the Sherpa's. They have climbed that particular mountain more than anyone and they still die due to the dangerous nature of the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smltwnrckr Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Let them climb. If they die, so be it. I never for the life understood why anyone would want to climb Everest now, considering how many people have done it. But I've never understood mountain climbing in general. Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...