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MWC teams - vote if on the rise, decline..steady?

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BYU - on the rise

Utah - on the rise

TCU - steady

New Mexico - steady

Air Force - on the decline

CSU - on the rise

Wyoming - steady

UNLV - on the rise

SDSU - on the rise

The way I see it...the MWC in 2008 is increasing in strength rather than declining as a conference. This year, the MWC should be a much better football conference.

BYU and Utah both steady because they are already at the top of the league.

SDSU, UNLV, CSU -- also steady because they all suck and will continue to suck for the forseeable future

New Mexico also steady at mediocrity.

AFA and Wyoming both teams that have had a major downturn that is seemingly reversing itself

TCU -- sinking like a concrete filled lead pipe in a lake down to their historic norm of massive suckage....

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We were forced to start a freshman QB last year (due to our QB being drafted in the second round of the MLB draft), a true freshman DT, have a walk on 180 lb receiver play RB...and our star DE be a distraction. This year, we have a full stable of RBs again, get the DT back that forced us to start a true frosh, and are three deep at every D-Line position.

Every team had an advantage over the normal 4-2-5 as we had to stack the line to stop the run. That will not be the case this year.

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The MWC is 1-BYU, 2-Utah. TCU can make a strong case for 3, but so can the Lobos. Don't forget, they also finished with more wins overall, less losses than you last year. And they didn't lose Blake and Ortiz, you did.

Truth is, the Horned Frogs are closer to the Lobos currently than they are the Cougars and Utes, until proven otherwise. Don't mistake Bronco not running up the score in Provo last year for a close game. We had no problem winning in Fort Worth the year before. Remember, you're just 2 blown overtime calls from being 0-6 against the MWC's Utah schools.

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You talk a lot of crap for a fan of a team that couldn't beat Wyoming. Utah finished 3rd in the MWC last season and still beat Wyoming 50-0. They also lost to UNLV 0-27, but still finished above you in conference and with more wins overall, less losses.

The MWC is 1-BYU, 2-Utah. TCU can make a strong case for 3, but so can the Lobos. Don't forget, they also finished with more wins overall, less losses than you last year. And they didn't lose Blake and Ortiz, you did.

Truth is, the Horned Frogs are closer to the Lobos currently than they are the Cougars and Utes, until proven otherwise. Don't mistake Bronco not running up the score in Provo last year for a close game. We had no problem winning in Fort Worth the year before. Remember, you're just 2 blown overtime calls from being 0-6 against the MWC's Utah schools.

Okay, now please return to your overblown sense of importance, so the team that lost recently to SMU can tell the Lobos how they won't beat NMSU and Arizona, both teams that they beat just last season (I got your back Lobos!)...

2005-TCU won a controversial game (vs. utah).

2006- A touchdown that bounced off a tcu cornerbacks hands. The utah utes got a lucky win.

2007 - The utah player touched the onsides kick( before it traveled 10 yards) (this means the ball is live). The ball had only traveled 9 yards. TCU recovered the touched onsides kick. The ref unfairly/ illegally gave the ball to utah. TCU was screwed by the refs.

2005-TCU won a controversial game vs. byu.

Byu has been lucky in 2006, 2007, vs. utah.

Recently? LOL! TCU has not lost recently to smu. The tcu loss (at smu) was in 2005. 2008 is the year that we are now in. The loss was 3 YEARS AGO! Smu is the one who lost recently to tcu. Smu lost in 2007/ last year to tcu.

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BYU and Utah both steady because they are already at the top of the league.

SDSU, UNLV, CSU -- also steady because they all suck and will continue to suck for the forseeable future

New Mexico also steady at mediocrity.

AFA and Wyoming both teams that have had a major downturn that is seemingly reversing itself

TCU -- sinking like a concrete filled lead pipe in a lake down to their historic norm of massive suckage....

'TCU"Robert, I would like to apologize to you. I thought you were the most cluless person on this forum. I stand corrected.

Sincerely,

Big Frog II

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Ok this is interesting, I think that almost everyone has respect/faith in Troy Calhoun but, looking at AFA's graduation losses it also looks like the Falcons will take a step backwards before they can take another step forwards. At least that's how it looks to me.

Do you see AFA as one of he top 3 in the MWC next year?

This year will be a small step back - but the trend will be up. Calhoun is a great coach and looks to be an even better recruiter. A good chunk of his staff are AFA grads, and really know how to pitch the institution. He also shifted the focus from quantity of recruits to quality. Everyone is raving about the kids that arrived on base today. Just counting the Stars in the Scout Database:

2006 - 40 (Deberry's last year - only a few multi star guys - none of whom are still in the program)

2007 - 49 (Calhoun 1/2 a year)

2008 - 68 (Calhouns first full year of recuriting. Just as important - I bet a higher % of the recruits stick it out)

This tops everyone in the conference:

BYU - 63 star

CSU - 52 Stars

UNLV - 45 stars

Utah - 44 stars

UNM - 44 stars

SDSU - 43 stars

Wyo - 42 stars

TCU - 33 stars

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This year will be a small step back - but the trend will be up. Calhoun is a great coach and looks to be an even better recruiter. A good chunk of his staff are AFA grads, and really know how to pitch the institution. He also shifted the focus from quantity of recruits to quality. Everyone is raving about the kids that arrived on base today. Just counting the Stars in the Scout Database:

2006 - 40 (Deberry's last year - only a few multi star guys - none of whom are still in the program)

2007 - 49 (Calhoun 1/2 a year)

2008 - 68 (Calhouns first full year of recuriting. Just as important - I bet a higher % of the recruits stick it out)

This tops everyone in the conference:

BYU - 63 star

CSU - 52 Stars

UNLV - 45 stars

Utah - 44 stars

UNM - 44 stars

SDSU - 43 stars

Wyo - 42 stars

TCU - 33 stars

I don't doubt that maybe AFA's recruiting has picked in the short time Calhoun has been there but to suggest that it has surpassed teams in the MWC like BYU, Utah, and TCU as this post does (unless I'm understanding it incorrectly) is kinda silly. :huh:

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I don't doubt that maybe AFA's recruiting has picked in the short time Calhoun has been there but to suggest that it has surpassed teams in the MWC like BYU, Utah, and TCU as this post does (unless I'm understanding it incorrectly) is kinda silly. :huh:

Has any one divided the stars by the number of players signed? If a school doesn't have a bunch of scholarships to give a particular year, your total stars will be low. A better way to just a class is the average number of stars per player.

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Byu has been lucky in 2006, 2007, vs. utah.

first off it almost sounded like TCU Bobby was actually argueing for TCU? Has He!! froze over again?

Second since when has Utah's DB's not being able to cover BYU TE's and WR's considered lucky? Utah was lucky that Hall was injured the previous game and came into that game with an acute injury. now i disguise this from BJ's chronic injury that he sustained earlier in the year. Both are not good but can you guess which one is always more of a problem espcially when trying to play a football game?

By the way Utes did he seperate his shoulder or actually dislocate his shoulder? And wasn't it his throwing arm as well?

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Has any one divided the stars by the number of players signed? If a school doesn't have a bunch of scholarships to give a particular year, your total stars will be low. A better way to just a class is the average number of stars per player.

but then you might inject some objectivity into the stats--- you wouldn't want that, would you?

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first off it almost sounded like TCU Bobby was actually argueing for TCU? Has He!! froze over again?

Second since when has Utah's DB's not being able to cover BYU TE's and WR's considered lucky? Utah was lucky that Hall was injured the previous game and came into that game with an acute injury. now i disguise this from BJ's chronic injury that he sustained earlier in the year. Both are not good but can you guess which one is always more of a problem espcially when trying to play a football game?

By the way Utes did he seperate his shoulder or actually dislocate his shoulder? And wasn't it his throwing arm as well?

Actually never mind I was bored and looked it up. BJ had the exact same injury as Hall did. So yeah the Utes were lucky. Hall played with the same injury that kept their QB out of the game for 3-5 weeks or however long it was. imagine what a healthy Hall would have done to their secondary all day long. We all saw what a Freshman RB did to their rush defense. I have to admit I thought this hole time BJ dislocated his shoulder and I always thought what a tough sun of a gun for playing QB with a old dislocated shoulder injury. come to find out he had a 3rd degree shoulder seperation and sat out all those games? what a freakin wuss. Beck played with it, Doman played with it, and Hall played with the same injury, none of them sat out a handful of weeks. Being what was a sports trainer I am shocked at this wimpy nature. i am sorry but unless your training staff our a bunch of incompetant bafoons you can play with a 3rd degree shoulder sprain. It hurts like crazy and it will effect your performance for awhile but it won't get worst and you can play on it unless the player says he doesn't want to play. And we all knmow that after BJ the Utes had nobody, they lost to UNLV for heaven sakes. I think BJ copped out and played chicken for a few weeks that or he couldn't handle the pain I seriously lost a ton of respect for him, he'll be nothing more then an average QB with that kind of attitude no wonder we won with a injured QB. The Utes had a good team and they couldn't have asked for a better situation in playing BYU with a injured QB to his throwing arm you should be embarassed you lost that game.

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I don't doubt that maybe AFA's recruiting has picked in the short time Calhoun has been there but to suggest that it has surpassed teams in the MWC like BYU, Utah, and TCU as this post does (unless I'm understanding it incorrectly) is kinda silly. :huh:

We beat TCU and Utah last year. Is Rookie head coach Calhoun really that much better than Patterson and Wittingham? No. The talent gap between AFA and other teams in the MWC was never that big, and it just got narrower. We'll never get the super stars, but we'll man up pretty well.

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Actually never mind I was bored and looked it up. BJ had the exact same injury as Hall did. So yeah the Utes were lucky. Hall played with the same injury that kept their QB out of the game for 3-5 weeks or however long it was. imagine what a healthy Hall would have done to their secondary all day long. We all saw what a Freshman RB did to their rush defense. I have to admit I thought this hole time BJ dislocated his shoulder and I always thought what a tough sun of a gun for playing QB with a old dislocated shoulder injury. come to find out he had a 3rd degree shoulder seperation and sat out all those games? what a freakin wuss. Beck played with it, Doman played with it, and Hall played with the same injury, none of them sat out a handful of weeks. Being what was a sports trainer I am shocked at this wimpy nature. i am sorry but unless your training staff our a bunch of incompetant bafoons you can play with a 3rd degree shoulder sprain. It hurts like crazy and it will effect your performance for awhile but it won't get worst and you can play on it unless the player says he doesn't want to play. And we all knmow that after BJ the Utes had nobody, they lost to UNLV for heaven sakes. I think BJ copped out and played chicken for a few weeks that or he couldn't handle the pain I seriously lost a ton of respect for him, he'll be nothing more then an average QB with that kind of attitude no wonder we won with a injured QB. The Utes had a good team and they couldn't have asked for a better situation in playing BYU with a injured QB to his throwing arm you should be embarassed you lost that game.

:blink::unsure: Ah, OK, that makes sense...

BYU training staff sends Hall back into the game (that BYU was leading comfortably) after a series or two meanwhile the Utah training staff sits Johnson for the OSU game (BJ left a tied game) and the next 3 weeks. But you believe it was the "same" injury. Well if you are right on one point then; if the injuries were really the same at least one of the two training staffs is incompetent.

I guess Johnson had post season surgery on the same shoulder because he was a wuss, right? I mean if he was tough like Hall his shoulder would have healed by itself, don't you agree?

If the myth glorifies your guy you Zoobs really have a talent for overlooking inconvenient data.

Johnson Bio

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:blink::unsure: Ah, OK, that makes sense...

BYU training staff sends Hall back into the game (that BYU was leading comfortably) after a series or two meanwhile the Utah training staff sits Johnson for the OSU game (BJ left a tied game) and the next 3 weeks. But you believe it was the "same" injury. Well if you are right on one point then; if the injuries were really the same at least one of the two training staffs is incompetent.

I guess Johnson had post season surgery on the same shoulder because he was a wuss, right? I mean if he was tough like Hall his shoulder would have healed by itself, don't you agree?

If the myth glorifies your guy you Zoobs really have a talent for overlooking inconvenient data.

Johnson Bio

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Well considering that I was actually a sports trainer before moving into PA orthopedics when I graduate I can say there is little difference bettween a 3rd degree seperation and a third degree seperation both have complete tears of the ligaments surrounding the Acromion and clavicle and both are catagorized by complete tears not partial tears in most books that I have read, so yes there was likely little difference unless one was mis evaluated. I did not see any of their shoulders so I am purely going off of what the evaluation said. I know the Orthopod who evluates BYU's athletes and he is one of the better surgeons in the state of Utah. I don't know your medical staff so I don't know.

And most training staffs would put the player back in unless the player didn't want to go back in. Once you have a 3rd degree shoulder sprian you can not really injure it further it is already injured about as much as it can be injured my friend. Either you have an extremely over caution staff which isn't incompetant just very careful and at the collegiate level that is considered not competant or BJ didn't feel he could go back in. My bet if I was a betting man I would pick BJ not wanting to go back in.

And like I mentioned most not all 3rd degree cases are purely for cosmetic reasons for surgery and a majority of the rest are for head cases who can't adjust to the deformity. And a third degree AC sprain oesn't heal back to normal you will always have what is called a step off deformity unless you get that cosmetic flaw repaired, thus why the majority of AC sprains are considered cosmetic. Over time MOST there are always excpetions but not many that the pain goes away and you simply adjust in the end most QB's either alter their throwing mechanics usually due to the pain for the first while or they have no adjustment and can go on to play in the NFL Beck and doman both went on to the NFL with third degree sprians. I would guess that quite a few QB's have this injury since it is not uncommon espcially to QB's. I'll concede there is always a chance since BJ is injury prone and seems to take awhile to heal that his shoulder could have been an odd ball injury that fits in the not very common catagory. But having surgery doesn't always mean it is worse it could mean he is a head case and hopefully having surgery gets his head back on because the elusion that it needs to be repaired really sticks to some athletes and not just Utah players when I was at BYU we had a few of those cases as well.

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On a side note my opinion is purely comeing from information that was actually given that I found. It is not uncommon for medical and training staffs to not disclose all the information concerning an injury and he could have injured more then just his AC joint. That said if this was the case which wouldn't suprise me then it would have been worst then Hall's injury and all my ranting would have been in vain. :D But it is fun to tick off Utes. :P

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Has any one divided the stars by the number of players signed? If a school doesn't have a bunch of scholarships to give a particular year, your total stars will be low. A better way to just a class is the average number of stars per player.

I didn't look at Avg Stars but AFA is just over 2.0, which is also an improvement for us. BYU was at 2.52 and Utah 2.75. Everyone else looked close to 2. Don't forget - the rating systems are far from perfect. It doesn't hurt to bring in a bunch of kids and see what sprouts. Thats been AFA's strategy for year, bringing in 50-75 zero star/one star kids and developing 15-20 into 2 and 3 star equivilants.

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This year will be a small step back - but the trend will be up. Calhoun is a great coach and looks to be an even better recruiter. A good chunk of his staff are AFA grads, and really know how to pitch the institution. He also shifted the focus from quantity of recruits to quality. Everyone is raving about the kids that arrived on base today. Just counting the Stars in the Scout Database:

2006 - 40 (Deberry's last year - only a few multi star guys - none of whom are still in the program)

2007 - 49 (Calhoun 1/2 a year)

2008 - 68 (Calhouns first full year of recuriting. Just as important - I bet a higher % of the recruits stick it out)

This tops everyone in the conference:

BYU - 63 star

CSU - 52 Stars

UNLV - 45 stars

Utah - 44 stars

UNM - 44 stars

SDSU - 43 stars

Wyo - 42 stars

TCU - 33 stars

LOL!!! You sound a little starcrossed! UNM has never had worldbeater recruits, but Rocky gets them to play to the best of their abilities. A certain guy named Urlacher didn't get one other offer and I believe he was a one star recruit. Stars don't mean crap. What they do when they strap it up is what counts. If the stars were what counted, why bother even playing the games?

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