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Question for Fresno fans

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nonbcs, you ever hear of the saying "Figures Lie and Liars Figure?" You keep rehashing this Boise, Wyo, and Fresno argument and you skew it in a way that suits your argument (in your opinion). You choose to limit your comparison to Wyo only the last two years vs BSU, while I chose a larger sampling, which included all of the MWC vs. BSU in comparison to Fresno vs. BSU. Again Fresno was 1-4 vs. BSU since 03' while the Entire MWC is 0-7 vs. BSU in that same time frame. Fact is people can skew the figures however they want to suit their argument or point of view, and you know that (I would think). Move on. And since you are so enamored with Wyo's and Fresno's schedules, how about a bet as to which school has the best record this upcoming season? I know Wyo has Tennessee scheduled in OOC, where as Fresno has Rutgers, Wisconsin, UCLA in OOC. Close enough. Whaddya say?

That's like saying Wyo only lost 1 game OOC but the ENTIRE WAC lost 20 OOC games! The WAC must really suck!

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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nonbcs, you ever hear of the saying "Figures Lie and Liars Figure?" You keep rehashing this Boise, Wyo, and Fresno argument and you skew it in a way that suits your argument (in your opinion). You choose to limit your comparison to Wyo only the last two years vs BSU, while I chose a larger sampling, which included all of the MWC vs. BSU in comparison to Fresno vs. BSU. Again Fresno was 1-4 vs. BSU since 03' while the Entire MWC is 0-7 vs. BSU in that same time frame. Fact is people can skew the figures however they want to suit their argument or point of view, and you know that (I would think). Move on. And since you are so enamored with Wyo's and Fresno's schedules, how about a bet as to which school has the best record this upcoming season? I know Wyo has Tennessee scheduled in OOC, where as Fresno has Rutgers, Wisconsin, UCLA in OOC. Close enough. Whaddya say?

again you still give me nothing to disprove my point. you talk around the question because you don't have an answer. i see your main point and I have already dispatched it. but let me ask you this. What relevance does your win in 2005 have in compareing MWC teams? What remote comparison can you give to suggest that no MWC team would have beaten BSU in 2005? I have given at least some comparison with at least some minor equal footing in my point. you give records and that is fine and dandy except that the relevance is missing. Good for Fresno to beat BSU on their weakest year since their rise. good for Fresno you finally got a win but you can't say that a MWC team wouldn't have beaten them in 2005, heck you can't even remotely put forth an argument that Wyoming wouldn't have beaten them in 2005. Their isn't even a minor comparison to prove your point. I said 2005 and 2006 because they are at least relevant years when both teams played BSU. Heck you can even use 2002 and 2003 if you would like that but that only makes Fresno look worst.

You are right people can skew the figures and your post is a great example in your using a irrelevant season. the difference is at least the numbers i show have relevance though minor they are, while your point doesn't have one leg to stand on. If I skewed the figures then by all means unskew them or skew them in your favor. i would find it quite entertaining to see if you could actually do it. My guess is that you can't or else you and your fellow Fresno fans already would have.

the bet is intriguing. What do you propose? Are you suggesting that you'll finish with a better record OOc then Wyoming? Or are you suggesting that Wyo will lose to Tennessee and you'll beat once of your OOC teams? by the way Tennessee is easily the best team amongst both yours and Wyo's OOC though your OOC is way better then their overall. wisconsin maybe ranked but they are a Big ten team that would be lucky to finish in the top 5 or 6 in the SEC the differecne between the two conferences is quite large.

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Please if they can't win a WAc championship then they would be lucky to finish in the top 4 of the MWC.

Funny thing is most MWC teams would be BSU's and Fresno State's bit-h if we were in the MWC.

If you think you are "elite" now then just wait until two newcomers knock you around.

As far as Wyoming, ask any college fan if he keeps up with them? Then ask them what they think of Fresno State? More people like Fresno State than the pansy from Brokeback Mountain.

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Funny thing is most MWC teams would be BSU's and Fresno State's bit-h if we were in the MWC.

If you think you are "elite" now then just wait until two newcomers knock you around.

As far as Wyoming, ask any college fan if he keeps up with them? Then ask them what they think of Fresno State? More people like Fresno State than the pansy from Brokeback Mountain.

That was the funniest +++++ I have read in a while. It looks to me like you have your head so far up Ianfordoucheoftheyear's +++ that you are starting to sound like him. I'm done, and I suggest to everyone else...DON'T feed the trolls!

"They're a bunch of jealous little dicks who use the anonymity of the internet to insult people who're doing what they wish they were doing." ~ Holden McNeil

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Funny thing is most MWC teams would be BSU's and Fresno State's bit-h if we were in the MWC.

If you think you are "elite" now then just wait until two newcomers knock you around.

As far as Wyoming, ask any college fan if he keeps up with them? Then ask them what they think of Fresno State? More people like Fresno State than the pansy from Brokeback Mountain.

Doggiestyle, I think you are on the receiving end.

Is this string about (1) recognition, (2) which team is "liked more", or (3) how the two teams have competed head-to-head and common opponants? I thought it was (3). Yet all your response seems to give is your opinion about (1) and (2). Possibly because you know you don't have any advantage regarding (3)? Must be.

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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Yet, you still can't change the fact that Wyoming has beat more BCS teams than Fresno has since in the last three seasons and has beat a better BCS team.

That Giant Killer label wore off about three years ago. Now you're just a team that fills up on Idaho, SJSU, NMSU, USU, La. Tech, and Nevada and plays .250 ball against teams in the top 80. Congrats on winning games that 90 percent of division 1 would win 90 percent of the time.

Get back to us when you beat someone impressive. It hasn't happened since Brittney Spears was hot.

Face it Goats............... The Dogs would kick the $@#% out of any one of ya this season.............. :lol:

Dirt Sorcerer

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Guest ragtimeJOE

What would really be funny is if BYU and fsu get a matchup in the newly formed Rocky Mountain Bowl in conjuction with a TCU/Utah vs bsu NM Bowl matchup. :lol: Where would all of the chest beaters be then??

Just kidding of course. I just don't feel like a pissing match with wac-offs today....maybe tomorrow.

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LMAO! "BYU fans to an extent....."????? Fresno St can't hold BYU's jock in the accomplishment department this decade even. Seriously dude, it's not even close despite the worst stretch of BYU football in 30+ years. Fresno St hasn't accomplished JACK SQUAT since the turn of the century.

Conference Championships? Zero, in the pathetic watered down WAC no less.

Top 25 Rankings? One.

Moral Victories? Hmmmmm, I guess you got us there.

Sorry, but "to an extent" is a homerism at it's best.

This is a bit of an over-statement isn't it? Last time I checked, only ONE school has done something significant from the MWC, and that's Utah. Both BYU and Fresno State are in the EXACT same boat. Both programs are considered strong within their respected conferences, but have yet to break the BCS, which we both know is the ultimate goal for any mid-major.

In this last decade, Utah has done more for the MWC than any other program. The same could be said for Boise and the WAC (while I'd hate to admit it).

Conference Championships: 1. But does anyone really care who the WAC and MWC champion is? Really? You're fooling yourself if you think this matters. What did winning your conference get you last year, a bowl game against a 4th place PAC-10 school? Yea, I bet the college football world was just all over this game.

The only thing that matters is an undefeated season, and/or a ranking in the Top 12 to break the BCS. If you can win the conference on the way, more power to you. But realistically, if BYU runs the table and breaks the BCS next season, they'll get votes based on their undefeated season, not winning the MWC.

Winning your conference does not guarantee a BCS bowl bid, especially if it's a non-BCS conference.

Top 25 Rankings: Multiple. Let me get this right, you're one of those guys that says the only rankings that matter are season ending rankings right? Okay dude. So every other program that has had a ranking throughout the season is meaningless right? Our ranking of #8 in '01 is meaningless right? It's ridiculous to ONLY include season ending rankings. It's easy to say that Fresno State has only had ONE Top 25 ranking, when you're referring to final rankings. But look at the over-all big picture, and Fresno State has had multiple rankings. Like it or not season rankings are there, and to completely disregard them is ridiculous.

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Top 25 Rankings: Multiple. Let me get this right, you're one of those guys that says the only rankings that matter are season ending rankings right? Okay dude. So every other program that has had a ranking throughout the season is meaningless right? Our ranking of #8 in '01 is meaningless right? It's ridiculous to ONLY include season ending rankings. It's easy to say that Fresno State has only had ONE Top 25 ranking, when you're referring to final rankings. But look at the over-all big picture, and Fresno State has had multiple rankings. Like it or not season rankings are there, and to completely disregard them is ridiculous.

Z I actually agree with the first half of your post but seriously. Everyone except some Fresno and BSU fans ONLY care about real rankings. the final rankings are all that matter and if you think otherwise you are kidding yourself. do you honestly think that 4-7 Kansas St team was a worthy 13th ranked team?

And yes your #8 ranking is meaningless NO ONE and I mean NO ONE even remembers that you were ranked that year, all they do is go back and look at the final rankings and your not on that list.

It is ridiculous to count worthless rankings Fresno had a top ten ranking then went onto to prove they were not a top 25 team, so who cares if the voters thought at one point you were a rank worthy team later they found that Fresno had no business being ranked.

Only fans who are in desperate need to feel validated actually count crap rankings to make themsleves feel better. that isn't looking at the big picture it is trying to make your team look better then they really are. Sort of like WAC coaches giving Fresno a vote to have them appear in the rankings list while the computer unbiased polls either had you barely a top 50 team or not at all in the top 50. Like it or not after ESPN drops that year from their rankings archives no one will ever be able to even see current season rankings. Hhhhmmm I wonder if UCLa fans actually think their 11th at one time ranked UCLA team was a true top 15 team? i can tell you they don't and they don't dwell on season rankings because in the end ONLY final rankings determine who true top 25 teams really are. the only fans who hold onto seasonal rankings are those whose teams can't finish in the top 25 final poll. and guess what there is a reason for that they AREN"T TOP 25 CALIBER TEAMS.

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This is a bit of an over-statement isn't it? Last time I checked, only ONE school has done something significant from the MWC, and that's Utah. Both BYU and Fresno State are in the EXACT same boat. Both programs are considered strong within their respected conferences, but have yet to break the BCS, which we both know is the ultimate goal for any mid-major.

In this last decade, Utah has done more for the MWC than any other program. The same could be said for Boise and the WAC (while I'd hate to admit it).

Conference Championships: 1. But does anyone really care who the WAC and MWC champion is? Really? You're fooling yourself if you think this matters. What did winning your conference get you last year, a bowl game against a 4th place PAC-10 school? Yea, I bet the college football world was just all over this game.

The only thing that matters is an undefeated season, and/or a ranking in the Top 12 to break the BCS. If you can win the conference on the way, more power to you. But realistically, if BYU runs the table and breaks the BCS next season, they'll get votes based on their undefeated season, not winning the MWC.

Winning your conference does not guarantee a BCS bowl bid, especially if it's a non-BCS conference.

Top 25 Rankings: Multiple. Let me get this right, you're one of those guys that says the only rankings that matter are season ending rankings right? Okay dude. So every other program that has had a ranking throughout the season is meaningless right? Our ranking of #8 in '01 is meaningless right? It's ridiculous to ONLY include season ending rankings. It's easy to say that Fresno State has only had ONE Top 25 ranking, when you're referring to final rankings. But look at the over-all big picture, and Fresno State has had multiple rankings. Like it or not season rankings are there, and to completely disregard them is ridiculous.

Win the WAC first this century then come talk smack. Yes, BYU has accomplished far more than Fresno since the turn of the century and even has hardware and multiple Top 25 FINAL RANKINGS (yes, that's all that matters unless you're a Fresno or WAC fan) to show for it. Fresno St? Not so much but congrats.......

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This is a bit of an over-statement isn't it? Last time I checked, only ONE school has done something significant from the MWC, and that's Utah. Both BYU and Fresno State are in the EXACT same boat. Both programs are considered strong within their respected conferences, but have yet to break the BCS, which we both know is the ultimate goal for any mid-major.

In this last decade, Utah has done more for the MWC than any other program. The same could be said for Boise and the WAC (while I'd hate to admit it).

Conference Championships: 1. But does anyone really care who the WAC and MWC champion is? Really? You're fooling yourself if you think this matters. What did winning your conference get you last year, a bowl game against a 4th place PAC-10 school? Yea, I bet the college football world was just all over this game.

The only thing that matters is an undefeated season, and/or a ranking in the Top 12 to break the BCS. If you can win the conference on the way, more power to you. But realistically, if BYU runs the table and breaks the BCS next season, they'll get votes based on their undefeated season, not winning the MWC.

Winning your conference does not guarantee a BCS bowl bid, especially if it's a non-BCS conference.

Top 25 Rankings: Multiple. Let me get this right, you're one of those guys that says the only rankings that matter are season ending rankings right? Okay dude. So every other program that has had a ranking throughout the season is meaningless right? Our ranking of #8 in '01 is meaningless right? It's ridiculous to ONLY include season ending rankings. It's easy to say that Fresno State has only had ONE Top 25 ranking, when you're referring to final rankings. But look at the over-all big picture, and Fresno State has had multiple rankings. Like it or not season rankings are there, and to completely disregard them is ridiculous.

ZK686, I like you more than most WAC fans. Maybe it is because I'd rather see your avatar than one of a dog taking a piss. I don't know, it is hard to pin it down.

I agree that mid-season rankings can be important too. That is what is going to be the head line the next day. I think it also shows people that your coach can get a team prepped for playing the big game. Now some teams are over hyped and prove to be complete junk, but a teams rank when you play them, as well as their rank at the end of the season can be important.

I disagree about conference championships. I see your point that most people don't care who won the MWC or the WAC, just like I can't tell you for sure who won the Sun Belt, MAC or CUSA last year. But winning a non-AQ conference is like getting your high school diploma; having one doesn't get you anything, but you had better have it if you want to make it to the next level. If Fresno State's only loss is to Rutgers this year, they may get an invite to the BCS, depending on how the chips fall, but if their only loss is to Boise State and they place second in the conference, you can probably kiss that invite good bye.

But I wanted to get back to a question posted on one of the first pages. Why doesn't Fresno State get more home games versus BCS teams? I don't buy the argument that teams are scared to play in Fresno and so they refuse to schedule it. UCLA played a home and home with Utah, and lost on the road, and they have the road half of a home and home with BYU this year and will likely lose (I say this because they lost a lot of people, and they beat BYU at home, lost in a neutral site, and would presumably lose on the road), but I haven't heard anything about Fresno's game with UCLA being the first half of a home and home. USC did a home and home with BYU, but not Fresno State. Texas A&M did a home and home with Utah, and got trounsed in SLC, but didn't do a home and home with Fresno State. Washington has a home and home with BYU starting this year, but UW didn't come to Fresno.

I don't claim to know all the details of Fresno State scheduling, but UCLA, USC, Texas A&M and Washington all agreed to home and homes with BYU and/or Utah, and all but USC has lost on the road thus far, and yet Fresno only gets road games with these guys. Why?

Someone suggested a low buy out but they also said that was fixed now. It was also implied that Fresno State prefers to schedule on the road so that if they do run the table they will have a stronger strength of schedule, but would Fresno State really turn down visits from USC, UCLA, Washington and Texas A&M just to have a better SOS? I doubt it.

Why not make these boys come to Fresno, pack the house, rake in the bucks, and rack up some more wins?

2008-Present - Kicker Conditioning Coach, Team Apology

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Win the WAC first this century then come talk smack. Yes, BYU has accomplished far more than Fresno since the turn of the century and even has hardware and multiple Top 25 FINAL RANKINGS (yes, that's all that matters unless you're a Fresno or WAC fan) to show for it. Fresno St? Not so much but congrats.......

Your kidding yourself if you think BYU has really done more than Fresno since the creation of the MWC.

The fact is both schools are viewed as strong non-BCS programs, in mid-major conferences.

No one really cares about all of your mulitiple rankings. It comes down to which school has done more within the BCS realm. Why do you think Fresno State has grown so much as a mid-major? It's a direct result of our OOC BCS games.

But when it's all said and done, neither of us have broken the BCS. Therefore, everything else is meaningless. People don't care that BYU beat a crappy UCLA team in a meaningless bowl game, or even that the Dogs pounded GT, yet again, in the H-Bowl. But they do care that Hawaii broke the BCS. And even though they loss, the Warriors are still more of a household name now a days than BYU or Fresno State.

We can argue all day who's done what and how eachother's program out-shines the other. But the fact is, when it really comes down too it, only THREE non-BCS schools have bragging rights. And neither Fresno nor BYU is one of them.

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Fresno State fans talking trash? Cute. Didn't they do the same thing before last men's basketball season?

Same old song and dance, same old mediocre FSU squads being owned by Boise State, let alone any MWC team that they schedule a bodygame game against. I can't wait until they win another conference championship 20 years from now to see how much they run their mouths then...

#20 BYU 14, #3 Oklahoma 13

#18 BYU 26, #21 Utah 23

#14 BYU 44, #16 Oregon State 20

#10 BYU 82, Utah 69

#14 BYU 71, Utah 51

#16 BYU 99, Florida 92

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Your kidding yourself if you think BYU has really done more than Fresno since the creation of the MWC.

And you're kidding yourself if you think Fresno St has accomplished as much as BYU during the same span.

The fact is both schools are viewed as strong non-BCS programs, in mid-major conferences.

True. But one has actually won their mid-major conference championships on multiple occasions. One hasn't. If you think finishing 2nd - 4th place in the WAC on a continual basis helps Fresno St then there's no hope for you.

No one really cares about all of your mulitiple rankings. It comes down to which school has done more within the BCS realm. Why do you think Fresno State has grown so much as a mid-major? It's a direct result of our OOC BCS games.

No one cares about the multiple rankings? Get a grip on reality. BYU has even done more within the realm of the BCS system. How many times has Fresno St appeared in the final BCS rankings? Hmmmmmm, zero. BYU has done it multiple times. I guess none of that matters though...... :wacko:

But when it's all said and done, neither of us have broken the BCS. Therefore, everything else is meaningless. People don't care that BYU beat a crappy UCLA team in a meaningless bowl game, or even that the Dogs pounded GT, yet again, in the H-Bowl. But they do care that Hawaii broke the BCS. And even though they loss, the Warriors are still more of a household name now a days than BYU or Fresno State.

It must suck to feel that your program is so meaningless. I for one will take pride in what my favorite team has accomplished. Just because ZK says conference championships and Top 25 rankings are meaningless doesn't change that. Sorry you can't take pride in what Fresno St has accomplished since they haven't crashed the BCS. What a miserable fan experience.

We can argue all day who's done what and how eachother's program out-shines the other. But the fact is, when it really comes down too it, only THREE non-BCS schools have bragging rights. And neither Fresno nor BYU is one of them.

Ummmm, OK. Thanks for sharing your opinion.

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ZK686, I like you more than most WAC fans. Maybe it is because I'd rather see your avatar than one of a dog taking a piss. I don't know, it is hard to pin it down.

I agree that mid-season rankings can be important too. That is what is going to be the head line the next day. I think it also shows people that your coach can get a team prepped for playing the big game. Now some teams are over hyped and prove to be complete junk, but a teams rank when you play them, as well as their rank at the end of the season can be important.

I disagree about conference championships. I see your point that most people don't care who won the MWC or the WAC, just like I can't tell you for sure who won the Sun Belt, MAC or CUSA last year. But winning a non-AQ conference is like getting your high school diploma; having one doesn't get you anything, but you had better have it if you want to make it to the next level. If Fresno State's only loss is to Rutgers this year, they may get an invite to the BCS, depending on how the chips fall, but if their only loss is to Boise State and they place second in the conference, you can probably kiss that invite good bye.

But I wanted to get back to a question posted on one of the first pages. Why doesn't Fresno State get more home games versus BCS teams? I don't buy the argument that teams are scared to play in Fresno and so they refuse to schedule it. UCLA played a home and home with Utah, and lost on the road, and they have the road half of a home and home with BYU this year and will likely lose (I say this because they lost a lot of people, and they beat BYU at home, lost in a neutral site, and would presumably lose on the road), but I haven't heard anything about Fresno's game with UCLA being the first half of a home and home. USC did a home and home with BYU, but not Fresno State. Texas A&M did a home and home with Utah, and got trounsed in SLC, but didn't do a home and home with Fresno State. Washington has a home and home with BYU starting this year, but UW didn't come to Fresno.

I don't claim to know all the details of Fresno State scheduling, but UCLA, USC, Texas A&M and Washington all agreed to home and homes with BYU and/or Utah, and all but USC has lost on the road thus far, and yet Fresno only gets road games with these guys. Why?

Someone suggested a low buy out but they also said that was fixed now. It was also implied that Fresno State prefers to schedule on the road so that if they do run the table they will have a stronger strength of schedule, but would Fresno State really turn down visits from USC, UCLA, Washington and Texas A&M just to have a better SOS? I doubt it.

Why not make these boys come to Fresno, pack the house, rake in the bucks, and rack up some more wins?

The problem is NOW that the new BCS Bowl has been created, then winning the WAC is important because it can lead to a BCS Bowl bid. However, prior to that, it really didn't mean anything. A non-BCS program had just as much of a chance breaking the BCS with a tough enough schedule AND strong OOC wins. This is why Coach Hill always scheduled the way he did. Just look at all the times BSU won the WAC prior to the new BCS bowl, it didn't get them anything. Coach Hill said this past season that winning the WAC was now a top priority, because it can get us that much closer to a BCS bid. But let's be honest here, before that, winning the WAC, just like the MWC didn't get you anything. Utah got the BCS bid in '04 because of their ranking, not because they won the MWC. No mid-major has a gurantee BCS bowl bid if they win their conference. I don't think NOT winning the WAC has tarnished our reputation at all. When people think of Fresno State, they don't say "yea, but they can't win the WAC...". Only MWC fans say this. Most people out of the MWC world compiment our program, for what we've been able to accomplish simply by playing the type of opponents we do.

As for running the table and not winning the WAC, although it's very unlikely Fresno State would get a BCS bid if this happened, it's not mathimatically impossible. If we're undefeated by the time we meet Boise for the WAC championship, we could very well be ranked a low as #5. Would losing to Boise cause us to completely fall out of the Top 12? I don't know, but also remember we can get a bid if we're simply in the Top 16 by having a ranking higher than a BCS conference champion that has an auto-bid (say the Dogs are # 15, and the Big East Champion is #16). So will it happen? Probably not, but can it happen, yes.

As for the scheduling thing, a lot of people forget that the Dogs have had their share of some pretty good BCS games at home. List of BCS schools at home since Coach Hill has take over: California, Oregon State (2), Oregon, Kansas State, and Wisconsin. So, we've had SIX home games against BCS schools in the last 10 years.

Not a bad list. Given the size of our stadium and over-all size of our university.

We now have a guranteed home game against Rutgers in '10, and we stil haven't finalized our schedule for '09.

Who knows, maybe we'll get a deal worked out for a BCS home game in '09.

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