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Guest Cowboy Junky

Are there any rumblings in Albuquerque or San Diego about MLS expansion?

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Guest Cowboy Junky

It looks like Don Garber is in San Antonio this week to hear their pitch. If you look at the map of mls cities/expansion candidates, it's obvious there's a lack of teams in the Southwest.

 

I know the goal is to get to 24 by the end of the decade, but I would be surprised if the league doesn't continue to grow towards 28/30 teams.

 

I think the teams that get added to go to 24 are Miami, Atlanta, and San Antonio. The league is planning on switching to a european schedule and they need more teams in warm weather locations to make that possible. In addition, the league is heavily slanted towards the eastern U.S. The western conference stretches for miles and it looks like the league needs the southwest for balance.

 

For me, you add Miami, Atlanta, and San Antonio to get to 24. Then to get to 28 you add Albuquerque, Pheonix, San Diego, and Sacramento. I assume Chivas U.S. will likely be moving somewhere and San Diego/Sacramento seem like the end destination. If you're going to 30, you look at Vegas and Minneapolis.

 

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Zero movement on a Soccer stadium in San Diego.  MLS is not interested in renting NFL stadiums, so San Diego is not a likely destination for MLS.  Xolos promotion to Mexican first division, really took a lot of the wind out of the MLS to San Diego sails.  

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Guest Cowboy Junky

What sort of attendance is typical of an MLS franchise?

 

About 18,000. The current MLS expansion model requires certain things:

 

1. Soccer specific stadiums

2. Wealthy owners

3. Strong local support

 

The majority of MLS profit comes from ticket sales and attendance. That's why they're requiring the owners to have their own stadiums.

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San Diego is a big soccer town. MLS doesn't seem to take it seriously, though. I remember about 6 or 7 seven years ago, they had the MLS All-Star game at the Q. Absolutely no marketing, none. Then they were surprised when only 20K showed up. A lot of hardcore soccer fans in SD are Tijuana Xolo fans now that they're in the Mexican Primera. I think that the city would support an MLS team, but you bang into the stadium issue. As I've said before, in my ideal world SDSU would go in with an MLS franchise on a 30K stadium.

Thay Haif Said: Quhat Say Thay? Lat Thame Say

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Guest Cowboy Junky

It looks like the Southwest may be the next region looked at by MLS. The MLS expands in clumps. They added Seattle, Portland, Vancouver. Now they're going to add Orlando, Miami, and Atlanta.

 

I'm guessing at some point the southwest is going to get in the mix. How about Las Vegas, Pheonix, and San Diego or Albuquerque. I do think UNM could support a pro soccer team. Hell, all you have to do is average 15,000. UNM does that for basketball.

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I'm at a loss as to why Phoenix doesn't have MLS team.  They are a big enough city with enough soccer fans to support a franchise.  San Antonio wants to be in the MLS and they have strong support for the Scorpions here.  The new stadium was made to expand readily to at least 25K.

 

If PHX can get a nice 30k MLS stadium like the LA Galaxy, I think the MW can get a bowl game there easily without the worry of using a 70K stadium.   At least that would be a good place to start.

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If UNLV can get their on campus stadium built perhaps they would sell their old stadium to someone for an MLS club.  But, until then no one has expressed any interest that I know of in spending that kind of money to build a new soccer only stadium in Vegas. 

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San Diego is a big soccer town. MLS doesn't seem to take it seriously, though. I remember about 6 or 7 seven years ago, they had the MLS All-Star game at the Q. Absolutely no marketing, none. Then they were surprised when only 20K showed up. A lot of hardcore soccer fans in SD are Tijuana Xolo fans now that they're in the Mexican Primera. I think that the city would support an MLS team, but you bang into the stadium issue. As I've said before, in my ideal world SDSU would go in with an MLS franchise on a 30K stadium.

That idea was floated at SJSU if memory serves. Great idea IMO.

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soccer only stadiums aren't ridiculously expensive

 

i've seen a soccer game at sam boyd and the sight lines are awful, hopefully they don't go that route  

 

I've  never been to a soccer only stadium for MLS.  What makes them less expensive?

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Guest Cowboy Junky

I'd add San Antonio first. Followed by Las Vegas and St Louis.

 

I think San Antonio is a lock. They'll add Miami next, Atlanta after that, and then San Antonio. That will take the MLS to 24 teams that Garber says they want by the end of the decade. I don't think they're done there though, and I imagine the next round is going to look at the southwest. The southwest has to be considered with the large population of hispanic americans that love soccer. We want those guys in US soccer jerseys and MLS in the southwest would definitely help with that.

 

Places like Pheonix, Las Vegas, Albuquerque, San Diego, and Sacramento are going to be in play then, although I think Chivas USA will be rebranded and moved somewhere else in California.

 

That gives the southwest time to get ready though, because expansion to 24 will be by 2020. Expansion past 24 will probably take place shortly after that.

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LV is usually mentioned when MLS expansion is talked..............MLS specific stadium might be nice, but we've seen the LV area brain trust can't make a move unless the casino's sign off or if the casino's don't go ahead themselves with a project

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MLS is not moving to a Euro calendar. And if it did, it would be terrible. There's been a single report of a Fall-Spring calendar study and that's all. With the open air stadiums and the snowfall Canada/US has vs N. Europe, the move would require a 2-3 month break from Dec-Feb. Then you're going head to head with the NFL, College Football, NBA, NHL, College Basketball and more. At least during the summer, you only have baseball and some overlap with the leagues, not going toe to toe with them the whole year.

All in all the MLS is progressing. They are about to triple their TV contracts. They've add SSS and stabilized their franchises with the exception of Chivas USA. DC is finalizing their new stadium near the Nationals park. NYCFC is working towards a stadium in NYC (looking by the Yankees Stadium last I heard). San Jose is finishing up their stadium.

I think the next 3 teams will be Atlanta, Miami and Minneapolis. Atlanta and Miami are definitely in. The last spot is up in the air. I just don't see San Antonio (where I more or less live and have lived except for the 3.5 years in Austin) getting the team. The Scorpions owner does not have the pockets. There's been stagnation of grass root efforts. The Spurs supposedly aren't interested in putting the money down(Apparently, they wanted a USL team back n the day because the teams cost less). The scorpions owner would need bigger pockets to help and he hasnt ruled out selling the team. Minneapolis on the other hand has two interested parties. The Vikings and the NASL Minnesota United (backed/helped by the Twins. The United owner is supposed to be a billionaire. The Vikings team would use their stadium while th Unitd team is looking at building near the farmers market near he Twins and their stadium.

Otherwise, I don't see the large deal in moving to the Southwest. First, they need big pockets. After that, San Diego would be great but they need a stadium. Phoenix would be good, but they need the same and Albuquerque just doesn't have the market. Now the Oklahoma City Thunder show you don't need a magnificent market, but if you dont have the market, you need to have the intangibles and nothing at this point has led me to believe that they have a super wealthy owner, a new stadium and strong local support. It may all be there, but it need to be organized. The southwest just doesn't have the people outside of Phoenix and San Diego and as mentioned above, the San Diego market has the Xolos cutting into it.

I, too, see the league expanding after 24 but disagree with the western orientation of your picks. Indianapolis has 7000 deposits for season tickets for their team and they capped season ticket so there still demand out there. If they retain anywhere near that support, they have a very good shot. Sacramento is looking good so far. San Antonio has potential if they get off their butts. Detroit has had some rumblings about putting something together. Oklahoma City is coming alive, but now has infighting between the NASL and USL with both putting a team in the city. The North Carolina area has potential andrumors abound about Charlotte find putting together a strong ownership group.After that, theres good markets, but with no (pick 2 of 4) plans/owners/stadium/lower division teams(USL Pro/NASL), in San Diego, Phoenix, St. Loius, Las Vegas, New Orleans or Louisville/Memphis area.

In the end it just doesn't matter because my university will get whatever it wants and be on the inside on any incarnation of whatever conference it chooses and whatever incarnation of the NCAA or BCS that arises. Our ego only got bigger with the Pac-10, SEC and Big 10 trying to get us to join their conference.

Look, why don't you just be quiet before my university buys yours and closes it just for spite?

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Guest Cowboy Junky

MLS is not moving to a Euro calendar. And if it did, it would be terrible. There's been a single report of a Fall-Spring calendar study and that's all. With the open air stadiums and the snowfall Canada/US has vs N. Europe, the move would require a 2-3 month break from Dec-Feb. Then you're going head to head with the NFL, College Football, NBA, NHL, College Basketball and more. At least during the summer, you only have baseball and some overlap with the leagues, not going toe to toe with them the whole year.

All in all the MLS is progressing. They are about to triple their TV contracts. They've add SSS and stabilized their franchises with the exception of Chivas USA. DC is finalizing their new stadium near the Nationals park. NYCFC is working towards a stadium in NYC (looking by the Yankees Stadium last I heard). San Jose is finishing up their stadium.

I think the next 3 teams will be Atlanta, Miami and Minneapolis. Atlanta and Miami are definitely in. The last spot is up in the air. I just don't see San Antonio (where I more or less live and have lived except for the 3.5 years in Austin) getting the team. The Scorpions owner does not have the pockets. There's been stagnation of grass root efforts. The Spurs supposedly aren't interested in putting the money down(Apparently, they wanted a USL team back n the day because the teams cost less). The scorpions owner would need bigger pockets to help and he hasnt ruled out selling the team. Minneapolis on the other hand has two interested parties. The Vikings and the NASL Minnesota United (backed/helped by the Twins. The United owner is supposed to be a billionaire.

Otherwise, I don't see the large deal in moving to the Southwest. First, they need big pockets. After that, San Diego would be great but they need a stadium. Phoenix would be good, but they need the same and Albuquerque just doesn't have the market. Now the Oklahoma City Thunder show you don't need a magnificent market, but if you dont have the market, you need to have the intangibles and nothing at this point has led me to believe that they have a super wealthy owner, a new stadium and strong local support. It may all be there, but it need to be organized. The southwest just doesn't have the people outside of Phoenix and San Diego and as mentioned above, the San Diego market has the Xolos cutting into it.

I, too, see the league expanding after 24 but disagree with the western orientation of your picks. Indianapolis has 7000 deposits for season tickets for their team and they capped season ticket so there still demand out there. If they retain anywhere near that support, they have a very good shot. Sacramento is looking good so far. San Antonio has potential if they get off their butts. Detroit has had some rumblings about putting something together. Oklahoma City is coming alive, but now has infighting between the NASL and USL with both putting a team in the city. The North Carolina area has potential andrumors abound about Charlotte find putting together a strong ownership group.After that, theres good markets, but with no (pick 2 of 4) plans/owners/stadium/lower division teams(USL Pro/NASL), in San Diego, Phoenix, St. Loius, New Orleans or Louisville/Memphis area.

 

Garber already said the winter schedule is not a matter of if but when. As soon as he has enough southern teams to schedule games at during the winter, it's a go. MLS can compete with spring training baseball, hockey, and basketball. It certainly can more then it can compete with the NFL and college football. In addition, it makes it possible for MLS to partner with European soccer teams for loans, and actually be competitive in the transfer market. Until we play a winter schedule the MLS is always going to be considered a second rate league.

 

The southwest is important because of the demographics. There is a huge population of hispanic americans in the southwest and at some point the MLS is going to try and bring them into the league.

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