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Yoda

So what does it all mean???

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First off, congrats (damn you) on your recent success with the mtn. All references to the molehill can now be retired.

Random thoughts as follows:

1. Dish will follow toot-sweet. No way they risk their subscriber base in your footprint.

2. This deal is going to really hurt the WAC's recruiting efforts in the west. The MWC can offer every western recruit's family the opportunity to watch every game the kid plays in his college carreer. That's not just football or basketball, but with most other sports as well.

3. The WAC is now better positioned than we have ever been to negotiate a better television deal. There are clearly two players out there now -- ABC/ESPN and CBS/CSN (or whatever it is -- I guess I'd better plan on learning it.) It is not that the WAC is that hot a property, although it does have some teams that are attractive. But ESPN won't want to see CBS/CSN get an image as new, fresher, the coming thing and CBS/CSN will do all it can to foster that image. So I can see both networks fighting over every property. I wouldn't even be surprised to see the WAC try and put together their own version of the mtn. -- although we would probably have to tie up our teams on a long term basis for it to have much of a chance of success.

4. This has been the number one item on the MWC agenda and now that it is more or less handled, I think expansion will once again move to the forefront. The uncertainty over television distribution was a hinderance to expansion -- now it is a plus that could drive up the entry fee for whatever schools are eventually invited in. The MWC is on a roll -- I can see them expanding this year or next at the latest. Take the WAC's top teams, drop the rest of the conference to a Sun Belt level (killing their television plans) and make a push for autobid status. Or take some from the WAC and others from CUSA. Hard to say.

Who will they take? I don't know. But if they want into the BCS, then they had better take the three strongest programs out there (and they are not all necessarily in the WAC).

Yoda out...

____________________________________________...

After deleting some of my posts and closing the offending SteveAztec thread, a couple of elites have been able to open it long enough to respond to me anyway.  And since I can’t respond on a closed thread, here is my response…

Other than the initial inquiry, this has never been about letting Steve post again; I doubt that he even wants to post here.  My complaint is about his treatment on this board and the failure of admins to control attacks on him – and worse, to sometimes participate in those attacks.

Steve was first banned on the SDSU board.  When he was banned, it was a sufficiently controversial that they started what became an 8 page thread on the topic to justify the decision (https://aztecmesa.proboards.com/thread/9747/steve-aztec-longer-member-board).  It is clear that Steve had support in the community and there was some criticism for the Board Administrators for having failed to “expel the dozens of people who've been taunting him.”  (And take a look at the thread that I bumped; initially it was supporters happy about Steve getting a radio show.  Then the haters arrived.)

I can’t say if Steve took it too far in response, but I will say that he denies most of various accusations and adds important missing context to others.  But I wasn’t a party to any of the events and can’t say who is in the right and who is in the wrong.  And I have to admit that if half of what has been said about him is true, depending on context, I might well have banned him too.  Or more likely I might have banned those who were taunting him.  (Steve had lost a brother-in-law to suicide and there have been a number of memes of people blowing their brains out, as well as posts blaming Steve or his sister for the suicide – and admins apparently let it go.)

I am in no position to evaluate the truth or falsity of the laundry list of claims made on this board about how Steve responded to all this.  My complaint, however, is about his treatment on this board.  I may be wrong, but his banning on this board at least appears to have been less about what he did on this board and more a carryover from the SDSU banning.  The same taunting continued – more suicide memes – apparently ignored by the admins. Utenation supposedly posted the first and it is explained away because he didn’t know about the suicide.  But was the post taken down?  Was an apology issued?   Indeed, for years, admins on this board have allowed Steve to be vilified based on little more than anecdotal hearsay.  This is a privately owned board, but it is not a private board – anyone can join.  And more than that, It’s not an anonymous board; people know who Steve.  You have a duty to protect your posters from libelous statements and unproven allegations -- especially when, having been banned themselves, they have no ability to defend themselves.

Even Retrofade (who says he’s not a mod but can post to closed threads) put up a “blowing his brains out” meme several years ago.  He knew that Steve lost his brother-in-law to suicide, and he now says that “Steve is a mentally disturbed individual”, which is libelous by the way, but excuses his meme as nothing more than being in “poor taste”.  Apparently it is okay with the board's current admins to taunt a "mentally disturbed person" because the post has never been taken down.  The poster has never been admonished.  And there has been no apology, unless you consider "he deserved it" to be an apology.

In my view, you owe Steve an apology for the treatment that you have tolerated and, in some cases, engaged in.  A former Aztec board went out of business when sued (not by Steve).  It won’t be the last one.  You need to fix this.  You need to administer your board and prevent libelous and incendiary attacks -- hearsay-- on posters. 

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First off, congrats (damn you) on your recent success with the mtn. All references to the molehill can now be retired.

Random thoughts as follows:

1. Dish will follow toot-sweet. No way they risk their subscriber base in your footprint.

2. This deal is going to really hurt the WAC's recruiting efforts in the west. The MWC can offer every western recruit's family the opportunity to watch every game the kid plays in his college carreer. That's not just football or basketball, but with most other sports as well.

3. The WAC is now better positioned than we have ever been to negotiate a better television deal. There are clearly two players out there now -- ABC/ESPN and CBS/CSN (or whatever it is -- I guess I'd better plan on learning it.) It is not that the WAC is that hot a property, although it does have some teams that are attractive. But ESPN won't want to see CBS/CSN get an image as new, fresher, the coming thing and CBS/CSN will do all it can to foster that image. So I can see both networks fighting over every property. I wouldn't even be surprised to see the WAC try and put together their own version of the mtn. -- although we would probably have to tie up our teams on a long term basis for it to have much of a chance of success.

4. This has been the number one item on the MWC agenda and now that it is more or less handled, I think expansion will once again move to the forefront. The uncertainty over television distribution was a hinderance to expansion -- now it is a plus that could drive up the entry fee for whatever schools are eventually invited in. The MWC is on a roll -- I can see them expanding this year or next at the latest. Take the WAC's top teams, drop the rest of the conference to a Sun Belt level (killing their television plans) and make a push for autobid status. Or take some from the WAC and others from CUSA. Hard to say.

Who will they take? I don't know. But if they want into the BCS, then they had better take the three strongest programs out there (and they are not all necessarily in the WAC).

Yoda out...

talk.gif

You are forgiven Yoda...enjoy the Mtn! popcorn2.gif

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First off, congrats (damn you) on your recent success with the mtn. All references to the molehill can now be retired.

Random thoughts as follows:

1. Dish will follow toot-sweet. No way they risk their subscriber base in your footprint.

2. This deal is going to really hurt the WAC's recruiting efforts in the west. The MWC can offer every western recruit's family the opportunity to watch every game the kid plays in his college carreer. That's not just football or basketball, but with most other sports as well.

3. The WAC is now better positioned than we have ever been to negotiate a better television deal. There are clearly two players out there now -- ABC/ESPN and CBS/CSN (or whatever it is -- I guess I'd better plan on learning it.) It is not that the WAC is that hot a property, although it does have some teams that are attractive. But ESPN won't want to see CBS/CSN get an image as new, fresher, the coming thing and CBS/CSN will do all it can to foster that image. So I can see both networks fighting over every property. I wouldn't even be surprised to see the WAC try and put together their own version of the mtn. -- although we would probably have to tie up our teams on a long term basis for it to have much of a chance of success.

4. This has been the number one item on the MWC agenda and now that it is more or less handled, I think expansion will once again move to the forefront. The uncertainty over television distribution was a hinderance to expansion -- now it is a plus that could drive up the entry fee for whatever schools are eventually invited in. The MWC is on a roll -- I can see them expanding this year or next at the latest. Take the WAC's top teams, drop the rest of the conference to a Sun Belt level (killing their television plans) and make a push for autobid status. Or take some from the WAC and others from CUSA. Hard to say.

Who will they take? I don't know. But if they want into the BCS, then they had better take the three strongest programs out there (and they are not all necessarily in the WAC).

Yoda out...

Yoda, you made/make two, not one, mistake.

First, this MTN/Satellite/CBS deal now opens up opportunities for everyone including the WAC. My theory that it isn't so much as WAC vs MWC (that BCS forces us to play) but the WAC and MWC vesus the PAC. For CUSA, the battle is Big 12 for CUSA/West and BE, ACC, and SEC for CUSA/East.

The second mistake you are now making is the mistake you have been making for years.....anything that happens out there, you make the assumption that this means a MWC invite to Fresno is enhanced and/or made imminent. Why, with MTN on satelliite, does that make Fresno more attractive to MWC? Why share the MTN/Satellite with Fresno....when MWC doesn't need Fresno....MWC has got everything it wants for the time being/make/, it appears to me.

Rather, your focus and that of Fresno should be to make the WAC as good as can be. The CBS/Satellite/MTN deal opens up more opportunites for WAC....as it does for CUSA and all the NonBCS conferences.

Don't get me wrong, I think MWC should have Freso if MWC wants to step it up to BCS. But my guess is MWC is going to wait and be extremely patient in deciding how this BCS thing is going to go.....before making any expansion decisions. In the meantime, the Satellite deal gives MWC all the time in the world to make any future decision.

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Here's what is means for the MWC and CBS. A little dated (4 Dyas ago) but interesting.

http://www.kfbcradio.com/sportszone_page.php

Click on the link for the Tom Pernetti Interview CBS-College Sports VP.

Interesting that CBS-College SPorts will be the alternate network for March Madness Games. And their desire to expand MWC coverage on the "New Network" including MWC games on the main CBS network, but not this fall.

Also on this link is an interview with Craig Thompson and the increased MTN coverage on Direct-TV. (Two Days ago)

Negotiations with DISH start on Monday! Could the rumored exclusive deal with Direct-TV be just that a rumor?

As per CThompson there are 400,000 Dish subscribers in the MWC footprint.

Early round MWC Tourn games on CBS-CS.

Games times and revenue terms remain the same. There may be some time changes to capture even more revenue.

Intetresting that DirecTV owns 50% of the Big10 network, which explains why that deal went so quick, not that the MWC is even close to the draw as the BIG10. But it does make it interesting to see how other conferences will deal with the isue of starting their own Network.

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Yoda, you made/make two, not one, mistake.

First, this MTN/Satellite/CBS deal now opens up opportunities for everyone including the WAC. My theory that it isn't so much as WAC vs MWC (that BCS forces us to play) but the WAC and MWC vesus the PAC. For CUSA, the battle is Big 12 for CUSA/West and BE, ACC, and SEC for CUSA/East.

The second mistake you are now making is the mistake you have been making for years.....anything that happens out there, you make the assumption that this means a MWC invite to Fresno is enhanced and/or made imminent. Why, with MTN on satelliite, does that make Fresno more attractive to MWC?

Grass, I make many mistakes -- the ones that I make here are the least important of them but, still, I'm thankful that you are always willing to point them out and set me straight.

One thing you've never understood, however, is that I have never been a fan of Fresno moving to the MWC. I've always maintained that the only circumstance under which I wanted to go to the MWC was one in which the MWC was expanding to 12 schools -- I did not want to be left behind again, while three other WAC schools jumped ship. Other than that, I have always said that the WAC was a better place to be.

The news this week, however, may cause me to change my mind about that and become an all out supporter of moving to the MWC. I don't like the hit that we will take to recruiting, mostly. An awful lot will depend on how the WAC responds to this new reality -- and I'm not certain that they can make a viable response at all. A new and vastly improved television contract is one thing -- and I think we can get that. But a response to the threat of the mtn. is quite another thing. I don't think we can put together a WAC-TV -- about the best that we could hope for would be a WAC-Big West-Big Sky network -- that would at least have a significant enough footprint in the west that there would be some interest in picking it up.

We'll see -- but the ball is clearly in the WAC's court and the options are limited.

Yoda out...

____________________________________________...

After deleting some of my posts and closing the offending SteveAztec thread, a couple of elites have been able to open it long enough to respond to me anyway.  And since I can’t respond on a closed thread, here is my response…

Other than the initial inquiry, this has never been about letting Steve post again; I doubt that he even wants to post here.  My complaint is about his treatment on this board and the failure of admins to control attacks on him – and worse, to sometimes participate in those attacks.

Steve was first banned on the SDSU board.  When he was banned, it was a sufficiently controversial that they started what became an 8 page thread on the topic to justify the decision (https://aztecmesa.proboards.com/thread/9747/steve-aztec-longer-member-board).  It is clear that Steve had support in the community and there was some criticism for the Board Administrators for having failed to “expel the dozens of people who've been taunting him.”  (And take a look at the thread that I bumped; initially it was supporters happy about Steve getting a radio show.  Then the haters arrived.)

I can’t say if Steve took it too far in response, but I will say that he denies most of various accusations and adds important missing context to others.  But I wasn’t a party to any of the events and can’t say who is in the right and who is in the wrong.  And I have to admit that if half of what has been said about him is true, depending on context, I might well have banned him too.  Or more likely I might have banned those who were taunting him.  (Steve had lost a brother-in-law to suicide and there have been a number of memes of people blowing their brains out, as well as posts blaming Steve or his sister for the suicide – and admins apparently let it go.)

I am in no position to evaluate the truth or falsity of the laundry list of claims made on this board about how Steve responded to all this.  My complaint, however, is about his treatment on this board.  I may be wrong, but his banning on this board at least appears to have been less about what he did on this board and more a carryover from the SDSU banning.  The same taunting continued – more suicide memes – apparently ignored by the admins. Utenation supposedly posted the first and it is explained away because he didn’t know about the suicide.  But was the post taken down?  Was an apology issued?   Indeed, for years, admins on this board have allowed Steve to be vilified based on little more than anecdotal hearsay.  This is a privately owned board, but it is not a private board – anyone can join.  And more than that, It’s not an anonymous board; people know who Steve.  You have a duty to protect your posters from libelous statements and unproven allegations -- especially when, having been banned themselves, they have no ability to defend themselves.

Even Retrofade (who says he’s not a mod but can post to closed threads) put up a “blowing his brains out” meme several years ago.  He knew that Steve lost his brother-in-law to suicide, and he now says that “Steve is a mentally disturbed individual”, which is libelous by the way, but excuses his meme as nothing more than being in “poor taste”.  Apparently it is okay with the board's current admins to taunt a "mentally disturbed person" because the post has never been taken down.  The poster has never been admonished.  And there has been no apology, unless you consider "he deserved it" to be an apology.

In my view, you owe Steve an apology for the treatment that you have tolerated and, in some cases, engaged in.  A former Aztec board went out of business when sued (not by Steve).  It won’t be the last one.  You need to fix this.  You need to administer your board and prevent libelous and incendiary attacks -- hearsay-- on posters. 

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First off, congrats (damn you) on your recent success with the mtn. All references to the molehill can now be retired.

Random thoughts as follows:

1. Dish will follow toot-sweet. No way they risk their subscriber base in your footprint.

2. This deal is going to really hurt the WAC's recruiting efforts in the west. The MWC can offer every western recruit's family the opportunity to watch every game the kid plays in his college carreer. That's not just football or basketball, but with most other sports as well.

3. The WAC is now better positioned than we have ever been to negotiate a better television deal. There are clearly two players out there now -- ABC/ESPN and CBS/CSN (or whatever it is -- I guess I'd better plan on learning it.) It is not that the WAC is that hot a property, although it does have some teams that are attractive. But ESPN won't want to see CBS/CSN get an image as new, fresher, the coming thing and CBS/CSN will do all it can to foster that image. So I can see both networks fighting over every property. I wouldn't even be surprised to see the WAC try and put together their own version of the mtn. -- although we would probably have to tie up our teams on a long term basis for it to have much of a chance of success.

4. This has been the number one item on the MWC agenda and now that it is more or less handled, I think expansion will once again move to the forefront. The uncertainty over television distribution was a hinderance to expansion -- now it is a plus that could drive up the entry fee for whatever schools are eventually invited in. The MWC is on a roll -- I can see them expanding this year or next at the latest. Take the WAC's top teams, drop the rest of the conference to a Sun Belt level (killing their television plans) and make a push for autobid status. Or take some from the WAC and others from CUSA. Hard to say.

Who will they take? I don't know. But if they want into the BCS, then they had better take the three strongest programs out there (and they are not all necessarily in the WAC).

Yoda out...

It could be a good thing for the wac, based on the fact that there are now more big-time players in the college broadcast game.

I do not agree that the MWC will expand in the near future, Thompson and pres's has said no to expansion plans right now.

The thing is, The MWC doesn't need to expand, Winning will take care of everything and I doubt that the presidents want to kill the wac completely.

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Hey Yoda, have you read or heard anything legit about the TV deal being the main thing blocking expansion? Or are these your own thoughts? MWC presidents haven't said anything like this and are happy with current memebership not pending MWC business.

I really think you need to be clear on who is saying what.. I think most of your theories are just spazzy, pinned up frustration ideas that lack merit..

As far as the WAC's TV deal or potential deal, it's already clear the WAC does not bring many chips to the table.. The deal they signed with ESPN might seal their fate for future contracts..

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The news this week, however, may cause me to change my mind about that and become an all out supporter of moving to the MC. I don't like the hit that we will take to recruiting, mostly. An awful lot will depend on how the WAC responds to this new reality -- and I'm not certain that they can make a viable response at all. A new and vastly improved television contract is one thing -- and I think we can get that. But a response to the threat of the MN. is quite another thing. I don't think we can put together a WAC-TV -- about the best that we could hope for would be a WAC-Big West-Big Sky network -- that would at least have a significant enough footprint in the west that there would be some interest in picking it up.

See Yoda, here's a perfect example of one of your fear laced insurance industry tactics..

For years now, we've heard from WAC fans(mainly you) that our recruiting numbers would suffer after leaving ESPN and lack of distribution with the CSTV plan... The fact is, the conference did well overall and our top teams actually improved.. This comes down to solid systems and hard work.. Not once did you hear a MWC coach leak frustration about potential recruits not being able to see MWC teams.

So we must be fair when the table is turned.

I don't think WAC schools will have to change tactics or plan the emergency MTN is now full access meeting you are suggesting. Once again, many of your theories lack facts and evidence..

There is no doubt having better distribution will help our conference in many ways but your coaches should be fired if they can't get solid recruits that are right for their programs..

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Hey Yoda, have you read or heard anything legit about the TV deal being the main thing blocking expasnion? Or are these your own thoughts? MWC presidents haven't said anything like this and are happy with current memebership not pending MWC business.

I really think you need to be clear on who is saying what.. I think most of your theories are just spazzy, pinned up frustration ideas that lack merit..

As far as the WAC's TV deal or potential deal, it's already clear the WAC does not bring many chips to the table.. The deal they signed with ESPN might seal their fate for future contracts..

I actually have to agree with Yoda on this point. Awhile back I remember hearing that the MWC was interested in adding a 10th team so as to have travel partners with basketball. but then the whole TV mess became more and more aparent and things shifted towards a desperate need to fix the problems. Now that things are looking up and better then expected for having our TV deal for a such a short time, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a look back at adding an additional 10th team.

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I actually have to agree with Yoda on this point. Awhile back I remember hearing that the MWC was interested in adding a 10th team so as to have travel partners with basketball. but then the whole TV mess became more and more aparent and things shifted towards a desperate need to fix the problems. Now that things are looking up and better then expected for having our TV deal for a such a short time, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a look back at adding an additional 10th team.

Since TCU was added, I haven't heard a thing... I'm not opposed to smart expansion but I simply haven't heard MWC presidents suggest this or even promote the idea of waiting until we have a TV deal in place and up and running..

Anyone with a link from MWC leadership suggesting expansion after TCU? I'm not doubting what you heard nonbcs, just haven't seen anything..

Thompson was all about doing whatever possible to make us a BCS conference after Utah's run but I really think the conference decided that was just another moving target and mum's the word today.

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I will say, I enjoy Yoda's consistency.. :D

He has the WAC board up in arms about the doom that is about to hit them from the full access mtn deal.. Much the same way he tried to have us up in arms about leaving ESPN.

Watching guys like Ianforheisman claim the DTV deal is not good and is going to be very limited is quite amusing... I guess he doesn't realize that even he can get the Mtn in his trailer park in Lucky Peak Idaho(at least according to the terms shown so far on a national plan).

Yoda is very consistent.. I will give him that..

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I will say, I enjoy Yoda's consistency.. :D

He has the WAC board up in arms about the doom that is about to hit them from the full access mtn deal.. Much the same way he tried to have us up in arms about leaving ESPN.

Watching guys like Ianforheisman claim the DTV deal is not good and is going to be very limited is quite amusing... I guess he doesn't realize that even he can get the Mtn in his trailer park in Lucky Peak Idaho(at least according to the terms shown so far on a national plan).

Yoda is very consistent.. I will give him that..

What I find funnier than anything else is how this ian guy used to claim that the MWC contract was terrible because we didn't have any satellite distribution and no one can see our games. Now we have that distribution and somehow the argument is now spun that satelitte distribution is not the answer???

I went to the WAC board for the first time yesterday and was stunned to read that they are now saying that satelitte sucks and Comcast is the best...yes Comcast. If it was me and I had been making stupid claims for years I would just shut up right now...at the most I'd post a quick "congratulations" email but most likely I would just watch what few games I can of my team and say nothing.

nmstorm-siglitt-1.png
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Guest Cowboy Junky

It means fire up your engines Fresno, Boise, Utep, SMU, Hawaii, Houston, Rice, and Nevada. This is the opportunity and the time to build facilities quickly. We're down to three empty chairs. If you can work out an airport deal to make it affordable to fly to the middle of the Pacific ocean: get on it. If you can influence the Sun Bowl: start making tamales. If your AD clashes with the MWC top brass: get rid of him.

The seperation between the MWC and the other non bcs is about to get bigger.

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Yoda, you bring up some good points. I too have been trying to figure out what this all means in the grand scheme. I will break it down into what it means for the MWC and what it means for the rest of the conferences.

First, what this means for the MWC is obvious. Everyone who wants to watch their teams now have a chance too. As for what it means about the future, I believe that the MWC will table any expansion proposals until/unless the school(s) requesting entry and/or the BcS come to the conference w/ an over the top offer that works out to the benefit of the MWC. For example, if UTEP wanted in and gauranteed the Sun Bowl would follow, I would think that the MWC would have to listen. If the BcS came to the MWC and said "if you add Fresno, Boise, and Nevada" along w/ a conference championship game, you get an autobid. Unless one of those types of scenarios happen, I think the MWC stays put. With the DirecTV deal done, there is absolutely no incentive to add any more mouths to feed unless that mouth can provide a return to the conference.

Personally, I would like to see Boise be added and cap the league at 10, I am not in favor of having a 12 team league and a championship football game. I think in many ways, that would dilute the league, just my opinion, however. From the MWC standpoing, adding Boise doesn't bring any benefit right now. There still won't be an auto-bid and it would effectively reduce each school's share of the TV revenue that they have worked so hard to secure.

As for what it means to the rest of the college sporting world, this is a happy day for them as well. It shows that there is an alternative to ESPN. The downside, as you have seen, is the uncertainlty/waiting game of actually getting a deal done. Ultimately, I would suspect that every conference will have their own deditcated network. At the end of the day, the members of each conference trying to secure a similar deal need to be steadfast in their membership in order to secure those deals. Conferences in constant flux are going to have a much harder time getting these deals done because they will have to be continuously amended as membership changes.

All in all, I am overly elated w/ this deal. Now, the MWC needs to go out and capitalize through recruiting and winning on the field. Everything else will take care of itself.

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