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Guest Cowboy Junky

A good article about the demise of Conference Memphis Basketball...

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It is interesting to think of what could have happened if CUSA had made a play to replace the Big East instead of the Big East raiding CUSA. Basically it would have been the same product, just different name, since most of the success in the Big East recently has come from former CUSA teams.

But that expansion scenario is complete crap. 18 team conference?! It would be like the MWC and the WAC simply merged. I seriously just got a chill. It is a terrifying thought.

I also loved the idea of CUSA adding Fresno State and Boise State. Why would they want to join a comference that stretches from coast to coast? If they did that they would be even more eager for an invitation from the MWC.

2008-Present - Kicker Conditioning Coach, Team Apology

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Guest Cowboy Junky

It is interesting to think of what could have happened if CUSA had made a play to replace the Big East instead of the Big East raiding CUSA. Basically it would have been the same product, just different name, since most of the success in the Big East recently has come from former CUSA teams.

But that expansion scenario is complete crap. 18 team conference?! It would be like the MWC and the WAC simply merged. I seriously just got a chill. It is a terrifying thought.

I also loved the idea of CUSA adding Fresno State and Boise State. Why would they want to join a comference that stretches from coast to coast? If they did that they would be even more eager for an invitation from the MWC.

You can tell they're getting deperate for new ideas to improve the league when expansion scenarios like that come out: 18 teams stretching from South Florida to Idaho. Brilliant!

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Syracuse, UConn, WVU, and Rutgers wanted nothing to do with the rest of C-USA. They still only begrudgingly like Louisville, Cincy, and USF. Louisville always thought it was too good for C-USA, and is already starting to whine about the Big East's setup. Cincy and USF kinda went along for the ride. Louisville won't be happy until it's in the SEC, which will never happen.

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Guest Cowboy Junky

CUSA definitely needs to do something. Them and the Wac are facing 1a purgatory if both the Big East and the MWC go to twelve.

If the Big East were to add Memphis, Southern Miss, ECU, and UCF and the MWC with Boise, Fresno, and Utep....

CUSA leftovers:

UAB

Tulane

SMU

Rice

Tulsa

Houston

La. Tech(likely invite from the Wac)

-------

Utep would join the MWC

Marshall would jump ship back to the MAC.

They would probably add Troy and a couple of Louisiana dead president schools from the Sun Belt. Whatever they did, it wouldn't be enough. CUSA would be a one bid league with few bowl games and zero football success. Their t.v. deal would be dead. Bowl arrangement gone. Revenues would vanish.

Even if CUSA just lost Memphis their revenues, bowls, and t.v. deal would be over.

The new Wac would look something like this

Nevada

SJSU

Idaho

Hawaii

USU

NMSU

----------

They would likely try to add the Montana schools or some crap California schools to fill the void. Either way, say goodbye to the Wac.

If the Big East splits off the MWC should seriously consider going to twelve. We wouldn't have to worry about leagues below us because all of them would be the equivalent of the Sun Belt. Our only competition would be the conferences above us.

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IMO, C-USA will be a fine conference...its just going to take some time for the league to really get settled in and used to everything...

geographically, they're set up pretty nice, with the option of recruiting from Texas to Florida

Central Florida has really made great strides in football as well...there's still alot of room for growth in the conference

And of course, Memphis in the finals is great for C-USA bball

LSU alum/FSU fan
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Big IFs. The big east splitting isn't a foregone conclusion. The present bball money is huge with 16 members and splitting will lessen the cash payout to the individual members. The only reason to split would be if they didn't consistantly get 8 teams into the NCAA tourney, which they did this year again.

Also remember that Syracuse, UConn, and Rutgers have longtime relationships and rivalries with Georgetown, Villanova, etc. They don't want to lose them. It's Louisville, Cincy, and USF that could care less and they're not the ring-leaders of that conference.

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CUSA definitely needs to do something. Them and the Wac are facing 1a purgatory if both the Big East and the MWC go to twelve.

If the Big East were to add Memphis, Southern Miss, ECU, and UCF and the MWC with Boise, Fresno, and Utep....

CUSA leftovers:

UAB

Tulane

SMU

Rice

Tulsa

Houston

La. Tech(likely invite from the Wac)

-------

Utep would join the MWC

Marshall would jump ship back to the MAC.

They would probably add Troy and a couple of Louisiana dead president schools from the Sun Belt. Whatever they did, it wouldn't be enough. CUSA would be a one bid league with few bowl games and zero football success. Their t.v. deal would be dead. Bowl arrangement gone. Revenues would vanish.

Even if CUSA just lost Memphis their revenues, bowls, and t.v. deal would be over.

The new Wac would look something like this

Nevada

SJSU

Idaho

Hawaii

USU

NMSU

----------

They would likely try to add the Montana schools or some crap California schools to fill the void. Either way, say goodbye to the Wac.

If the Big East splits off the MWC should seriously consider going to twelve. We wouldn't have to worry about leagues below us because all of them would be the equivalent of the Sun Belt. Our only competition would be the conferences above us.

Why would the Big East go after Southern Miss? or expand to 12?

IF the Big East split and expanded, I think only Memphis and UCF would be targets, and both those schools would have a hard time garnering a consensus Big East vote....the schools & programs in the Big East want to be a northeast league...

Furthermore, whats the incentive for UTEP coming back to the Mountain West? They were a doormat for years, and separated from other Texas schools....now they're associated with SMU, Houston, Rice, they've got inroads to populated areas in Texas, and travel costs are easy...UTEP would decline anything short of a BCS bid

C-USA doesn't need to do anything, they've got the schools and the format...all they need to do is GET BETTER

LSU alum/FSU fan
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Guest Cowboy Junky

Big IFs. The big east splitting isn't a foregone conclusion. The present bball money is huge with 16 members and splitting will lessen the cash payout to the individual members. The only reason to split would be if they didn't consistantly get 8 teams into the NCAA tourney, which they did this year again.

Also remember that Syracuse, UConn, and Rutgers have longtime relationships and rivalries with Georgetown, Villanova, etc. They don't want to lose them. It's Louisville, Cincy, and USF that could care less and they're not the ring-leaders of that conference.

It's definitely all about the money. I think they would make more money split, even with the new league having to leave their basketball credits with the old league. They need to improve the scheduling and bowl issues. Those things aren't going to be solved with the 16 team league. There are too many different interests in that big of a league to make all of them happen. Someone is going to get screwed. I think the football teams have been screwed enough to realize that sacrificing the basketball revenue for six years is worth the price of having a league that meets their interests.

I think once they start to explore t.v. options on their own, they are going to realize that the football schools add the majority of value to their t.v. contract. They'll probably get about the same money they're getting now, but they won't have to share it with basketball schools. Financially, it should make up for the lost basketball revenue.

In addition, the basketball only schools will fade away without the football schools pulling them along. They might still have a nice little league similar to the A 10, but they won't be as successful as they were in the Big East. Without that BCS money the league will slow down as their basketball credits shrink. When that happens it will benefit the Big East football league, because they compete for the same recruits, dollars, and market share. Eventually the football schools will win that battle and will be better off for it.

I doubt if they would go to twelve right off the bat. My guess, they will split in 2010 and add Memphis only. The second most likely scenario to me is to see them split in 2010 and add Memphis and UCF.

Either way, CUSA is in a bad spot. They're at the mercy of both the Big East and the MWC. Either league could take a team or two from CUSA and there's nothing they can do about it.

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It's definitely all about the money. I think they would make more money split, even with the new league having to leave their basketball credits with the old league. They need to improve the scheduling and bowl issues. Those things aren't going to be solved with the 16 team league. There are too many different interests in that big of a league to make all of them happen. Someone is going to get screwed. I think the football teams have been screwed enough to realize that sacrificing the basketball revenue for six years is worth the price of having a league that meets their interests.

I think once they start to explore t.v. options on their own, they are going to realize that the football schools add the majority of value to their t.v. contract. They'll probably get about the same money they're getting now, but they won't have to share it with basketball schools. Financially, it should make up for the lost basketball revenue.

In addition, the basketball only schools will fade away without the football schools pulling them along. They might still have a nice little league similar to the A 10, but they won't be as successful as they were in the Big East. Without that BCS money the league will slow down as their basketball credits shrink. When that happens it will benefit the Big East football league, because they compete for the same recruits, dollars, and market share. Eventually the football schools will win that battle and will be better off for it.

I doubt if they would go to twelve right off the bat. My guess, they will split in 2010 and add Memphis only. The second most likely scenario to me is to see them split in 2010 and add Memphis and UCF.

Either way, CUSA is in a bad spot. They're at the mercy of both the Big East and the MWC. Either league could take a team or two from CUSA and there's nothing they can do about it.

How exactly is the football aspect going to make more $$$ and get more bowls by splitting?

How exactly is C-USA threatened by the Mountain West? They're certainly threatened by the Big East, because everyone wants a lucrative BCS berth, but how so with the Mountain West?

$$$ is a big part of the picture, but its not everything

LSU alum/FSU fan
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Guest Cowboy Junky

How exactly is the football aspect going to make more $$$ and get more bowls by splitting?

How exactly is C-USA threatened by the Mountain West? They're certainly threatened by the Big East, because everyone wants a lucrative BCS berth, but how so with the Mountain West?

$$$ is a big part of the picture, but its not everything

They get more bowls because Memphis brings the Liberty bowl. They're already going to improve their bowl situation and it will further improve it if they add a couple more teams, because they will have more bowl eligible teams at the end of the year.

The value in the t.v. contract is with teams like WVU, Rutgers, Pitt, Louisville. It's not with teams like Villanova, St. Johns, or Marquette. Once they get into t.v. negotiations on behalf of the football league they're going to realize that the same kind of money will be given to the eight football teams without having to split it with the basketball schools. Their per team payout will go up, although the value of the contract will be about the same. It's similar to the formation of the MWC when we dumped the Wac-offs behind and took the entire t.v. deal with us. The same thing will happen for the Big East football schools when they leave behind the basketball schools.

CUSA is threatened by the MWC, because at soon as the MWC invites a CUSA west school that school would join us. It doesn't matter if it's Rice, Houston, Tulsa or Utep. If and when we decide to add another Texas school, CUSA is going to lose a member of it's league.

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In addition, the basketball only schools will fade away without the football schools pulling them along. They might still have a nice little league similar to the A 10, but they won't be as successful as they were in the Big East. Without that BCS money the league will slow down as their basketball credits shrink. When that happens it will benefit the Big East football league, because they compete for the same recruits, dollars, and market share. Eventually the football schools will win that battle and will be better off for it.

I doubt if they would go to twelve right off the bat. My guess, they will split in 2010 and add Memphis only. The second most likely scenario to me is to see them split in 2010 and add Memphis and UCF.

Either way, CUSA is in a bad spot. They're at the mercy of both the Big East and the MWC. Either league could take a team or two from CUSA and there's nothing they can do about it.

To my knowledge, the football schools are the only ones who get football revenues. Georgetown is not getting money from the BCS coffers. I'd say that this conference would still get at a minimum three-four bids a year:

Georgetown

Marquette

Notre Dame

Villanova

Providence

Seton Hall

Depaul

St. John's

For a lot of folks, the only schools that really seem to not be progressing at this time is Seton Hall and Providence. Those are the two schools that just don't seem to be putting in the effort right now.

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Guest Cowboy Junky

To my knowledge, the football schools are the only ones who get football revenues. Georgetown is not getting money from the BCS coffers. I'd say that this conference would still get at a minimum three-four bids a year:

Georgetown

Marquette

Notre Dame

Villanova

Providence

Seton Hall

Depaul

St. John's

For a lot of folks, the only schools that really seem to not be progressing at this time is Seton Hall and Providence. Those are the two schools that just don't seem to be putting in the effort right now.

They don't get football revenue, but they are dependant on their relationship with the football schools to generate more bids, more money for the t.v. contract, and more national prestige. There's a reason why every BCS league in the country places 5 teams minimum in the NCAA tourney every year. The BCS money helps them to pay for basketball.

Do you think the above league will have the same clout as the Big East? They would be similar to the A-10, and way below the new Big East. Eventually, when the credits dry up they would probably end up a three bid league, while the Big East would become a 5-6 bid league. The Big East would take the majority of the basketball earners with them.

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They don't get football revenue, but they are dependant on their relationship with the football schools to generate more bids, more money for the t.v. contract, and more national prestige. There's a reason why every BCS league in the country places 5 teams minimum in the NCAA tourney every year. The BCS money helps them to pay for basketball.

Do you think the above league will have the same clout as the Big East? They would be similar to the A-10, and way below the new Big East. Eventually, when the credits dry up they would probably end up a three bid league, while the Big East would become a 5-6 bid league. The Big East would take the majority of the basketball earners with them.

I think they'd be ahead of the A-10, maybe even siphon off a couple of the A-10's best teams (Xavier & Dayton) who are more midwest based. These schools have a lot of cash and that won't necessarily dry up. I think ESPN would still give them a fair amount of telecasts to live off of. I think the difference between these schools and the schools that are attempting to survive in C-USA is that some of these schools had resources that were far lesser than the resources that Memphis had. Remember that half of those non-football Big East teams play in NBA facilities (G'Town, Marquette, 'Nova and St. John's), and two more play in large professional arenas (Depaul -Allstate Arena, Seton Hall - Prudential Center). The smallest home court would be Notre Dame's Joyce Center at 11,000 seats.

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Guest Cowboy Junky

I think they'd be ahead of the A-10, maybe even siphon off a couple of the A-10's best teams (Xavier & Dayton) who are more midwest based. These schools have a lot of cash and that won't necessarily dry up. I think ESPN would still give them a fair amount of telecasts to live off of. I think the difference between these schools and the schools that are attempting to survive in C-USA is that some of these schools had resources that were far lesser than the resources that Memphis had. Remember that half of those non-football Big East teams play in NBA facilities (G'Town, Marquette, 'Nova and St. John's), and two more play in large professional arenas (Depaul -Allstate Arena, Seton Hall - Prudential Center). The smallest home court would be Notre Dame's Joyce Center at 11,000 seats.

I could see that. If they pick off two of the best A-10 teams they would be a 4-5 bid league.

They definitely won't starve on their own, but they'll be a lot weaker without the football schools.

The wildcard is Notre Dame. I would think that the Big East football schools would dump Notre Dame and it's free-loading attitude. They would be a better fit in the basketball league.

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I think the Big East split is inevitable. Conferences are moving away from having basketball only schools. This article talked about back when CUSA had basketball only schools, but when the Big East raided a few of them, CUSA didn't replace them with basketball only schools, but basketball and football schools. The remaining basketball schools jumped ship for a basketball only conference. The Big East is the only of the big 6 that has basketball only schools, and the Sun Belt is the only other FBS conference that has basketball only schools, and their basically a half-way-house.

The Big East is competing with the other BCS conferences for supremacy, and having basketball only schools comes across as busch league. If they could find the right football schools they would drop the basketball only schools to form their own conference. I think you're right that they would raid the A 10 and become the premier basketball only conference. The one thing that the Big East does not want to do is give ground in basketball and so it wouldn't surprise me to see them add schools that have solid basketball programs even if they only have mediocre football programs. They would also probably promote basketball only schools that are willing to up their football program, like UConn did. Sometime in the future the Big East will morph into a 12 school football and basketball conference similar to the ACC, SEC, and Big 12. That would leave only the Big Ten (11) who is waiting for Notre Dame to finally accept their offer, and that would only leave the Pac 10, who would wait until they are the lone non-12 school BCS league before making a grab for BYU and Utah, UNR and UNLV, or some other west coast pair.

Is it football season yet?

2008-Present - Kicker Conditioning Coach, Team Apology

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Big IFs. The big east splitting isn't a foregone conclusion. The present bball money is huge with 16 members and splitting will lessen the cash payout to the individual members. The only reason to split would be if they didn't consistantly get 8 teams into the NCAA tourney, which they did this year again.

Also remember that Syracuse, UConn, and Rutgers have longtime relationships and rivalries with Georgetown, Villanova, etc. They don't want to lose them. It's Louisville, Cincy, and USF that could care less and they're not the ring-leaders of that conference.

Very well said. Money speaks volumes about college athletics today, and the money says the split isn't happening anytime soon. JMO

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Why would the Big East go after Southern Miss? or expand to 12?

IF the Big East split and expanded, I think only Memphis and UCF would be targets, and both those schools would have a hard time garnering a consensus Big East vote....the schools & programs in the Big East want to be a northeast league...

Furthermore, whats the incentive for UTEP coming back to the Mountain West? They were a doormat for years, and separated from other Texas schools....now they're associated with SMU, Houston, Rice, they've got inroads to populated areas in Texas, and travel costs are easy...UTEP would decline anything short of a BCS bid

C-USA doesn't need to do anything, they've got the schools and the format...all they need to do is GET BETTER

If a BE split did unfold, I believe they will target one program and one program only: Memphis (good market, great basketball, decent football, Liberty Bowl)

I'm all for UCF as option 2, but USF would be adamantly opposed to their inclusion.

So. Miss has virtually no chance.

East Carolina would also have a pretty decent shot. If the league doesn't split and it appears the 16 will stay together for a long term, I expect ECU

to be approached about a FB only membership (with promises of a full invite if a split occurs)

However, should the need arise first for a fulltime member (Notre Dame, Syracuse, or Rutgers join the Big 10), I expect Memphis to get the first call

Again, JMO

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I think the Big East split is inevitable. Conferences are moving away from having basketball only schools. This article talked about back when CUSA had basketball only schools, but when the Big East raided a few of them, CUSA didn't replace them with basketball only schools, but basketball and football schools. The remaining basketball schools jumped ship for a basketball only conference. The Big East is the only of the big 6 that has basketball only schools, and the Sun Belt is the only other FBS conference that has basketball only schools, and their basically a half-way-house.

The Big East is competing with the other BCS conferences for supremacy, and having basketball only schools comes across as busch league. If they could find the right football schools they would drop the basketball only schools to form their own conference. I think you're right that they would raid the A 10 and become the premier basketball only conference. The one thing that the Big East does not want to do is give ground in basketball and so it wouldn't surprise me to see them add schools that have solid basketball programs even if they only have mediocre football programs. They would also probably promote basketball only schools that are willing to up their football program, like UConn did. Sometime in the future the Big East will morph into a 12 school football and basketball conference similar to the ACC, SEC, and Big 12. That would leave only the Big Ten (11) who is waiting for Notre Dame to finally accept their offer, and that would only leave the Pac 10, who would wait until they are the lone non-12 school BCS league before making a grab for BYU and Utah, UNR and UNLV, or some other west coast pair.

Is it football season yet?

IMO, unless the BCS makes it a requirement for BCS conferences to have 12 teams, I dont see the FB members moving past 10.

I imagine Memphis would get the 1st call, with either ECU or UCF grabbing a possible 10th spot.

:)

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IMO, unless the BCS makes it a requirement for BCS conferences to have 12 teams, I dont see the FB members moving past 10.

I imagine Memphis would get the 1st call, with either ECU or UCF grabbing a possible 10th spot.

:)

Furthermore, I don't see the PAC-10 expanding. Ever.

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