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Democrats don't even want to talk about Tax Bill

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11 minutes ago, sactowndog said:

Capital Gains rates are not the same as standard income tax rates.

The post I responded too said CGs were taxed as income.  I said they always have been.  I don't think he was talking about rates.  Perhaps I misunderstood what he meant.  He can clarify that.

 

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8 minutes ago, pokebball said:

China CGs aren't getting preferred rates to any other CGs.  That's what Blues is saying.

Of course not.   The capital gains are treated equally.   But income from long term capital gains is taxed at a preferred rate to wages.   Including taxable gains from investments in China.    So again tell me why we should be providing a preferred tax rate to someone investing in China or Germany for that matter?

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3 minutes ago, sactowndog said:

Of course not.   The capital gains are treated equally.   But income from long term capital gains is taxed at a preferred rate to wages.   Including taxable gains from investments in China.    So again tell me why we should be providing a preferred tax rate to someone investing in China or Germany for that matter?

I responded to your question above.  I didn't have a strong feeling either way, remember?

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On 12/6/2017 at 9:33 AM, pokebball said:

Obviously it is currently defined as CG and taxed at those rates.  I assume you're asking whether US tax code should be incentivizing capital investment in a foreign company?  If not, perhaps you can clarify why your asking.

I don't know that I have a strong opinion one way or the other.  The individual taxpayer's income is getting taxed and capital gain income to me is capital gain income to me.  Should we start identifying capital gains from domestic companies vs foreign companies vs international companies, If so, US taxes gets more complicated.  Is it worth it?

For example, take an international company with headquarters in the US, that has operations in dozens or more other countries.  You invest in their stock and annually have capital gains to put on your tax return.  How do you identify CGs from China, from India, from Brazil, from Germany, etc.?

Additionally, the US participates in trade agreements with each country which may be different from one country to the next.  Do we tax CGs from a Canadian country different than we do from a Chinese company?  That complicates our trade agreement negotiation processes.  Is it worth it.

Is the growth of Bitcoin and Blockchain a factor in considering this question?

These are just a few of the immediate thoughts I have.  I'm sure there are hundreds of others.

Whatcha think?

Sactown, here you go.  I'm responding to my answer to your question to move it to the bottom of this string.

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1 minute ago, pokebball said:

I responded to your question above.  I didn't have a strong feeling either way, remember?

Yes but what is the rational that justifies it.   At one time the rational was that money would generate jobs.    Given the huge trade deficit that isn't likely to happen.  So what is the rational now other than pandering to those with money to invest.

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5 minutes ago, sactowndog said:

Yes but what is the rational that justifies it.   At one time the rational was that money would generate jobs.    Given the huge trade deficit that isn't likely to happen.  So what is the rational now other than pandering to those with money to invest.

I think it remains business investment and job creation, as it was back in the 1920s when it began.  Certainly, by allowing CG rates to apply globally benefits global expansion and job creation.

Our tax code actually taxes all foreign income, as it comes back into the states, at the same rates it does income earned here, even wages.

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1 minute ago, pokebball said:

Sactown, here you go.  I'm responding to my answer to your question to move it to the bottom of this string.

Sorry poke.   I missed your lengthy response.   I apologize.    

I would offer up it would be very complicated.   In short ,capital gains are a highly inefficient way to reward and encourage investment in the US given the global economy and the paradigm shift that people no longer invest where they live.    The underlying reasons for a preferred long term rate no longer apply.

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54 minutes ago, sactowndog said:

sure it does Wages are not taxed at the same rate as long term capital gains.

Wages do not create jobs.  

Capital is the driver of the economy.  Wage earners are one of the stakeholders who benefit by the encouragement of capital investment in our economy.

Capital should not be taxed at all in any way.  There would be no wage earners, no government, no services, no businesses without capital.

Capital pays the freight for the whole economy.  Why would you discourage its use in the economy?

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11 minutes ago, bluerules009 said:

Wages do not create jobs.  

Capital is the driver of the economy.  Wage earners are one of the stakeholders who benefit by the encouragement of capital investment in our economy.

Capital should not be taxed at all in any way.  There would be no wage earners, no government, no services, no businesses without capital.

Capital pays the freight for the whole economy.  Why would you discourage its use in the economy?

Actually I partly agree with you by advocating the elimination of the Corporate Income tax.   But it does me no damm good if the jobs are in China. 

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1 hour ago, sactowndog said:

Actually I partly agree with you by advocating the elimination of the Corporate Income tax.   But it does me no damm good if the jobs are in China. 

Sure it does you good.

You get to buy goods at the lowest prices possible.  

Our businesses get to produce components for products built in the united states at low cost.  Allowing for lower price american products.

Our country gets tax dollars from investments in other countries.  Lowering your tax burden.

 

Lowering the corporate income tax doesn't have the direct impact on economic activity that lowering taxes on capital would.  Not every capital gain is on stocks.  Most of my capital gains and most capital gains taxes paid in the country are paid on property sales.

Your neighbor building rentals or your other neighbor building a commercial building.  Capital gains taxes hurt the small investor the most.  You want to lower costs for mom and pop businesses and low income housing then reduce capital gains taxes.  

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4 hours ago, bluerules009 said:

Sure it does you good.

You get to buy goods at the lowest prices possible.  

Our businesses get to produce components for products built in the united states at low cost.  Allowing for lower price american products.

Our country gets tax dollars from investments in other countries.  Lowering your tax burden.

 

Lowering the corporate income tax doesn't have the direct impact on economic activity that lowering taxes on capital would.  Not every capital gain is on stocks.  Most of my capital gains and most capital gains taxes paid in the country are paid on property sales.

Your neighbor building rentals or your other neighbor building a commercial building.  Capital gains taxes hurt the small investor the most.  You want to lower costs for mom and pop businesses and low income housing then reduce capital gains taxes.  

1) I’m not of the belief that chasing the lowest cost producer in the world benefits the US by outsourcing all jobs that can be digitized.   

2) Capital gains taxes apply where you live not where you invest.   If you want to attract foreign investment lower the business income tax.  

3)  the carried interest exemption is used in real estate but if you change the corporate income tax they would restructure their transactions and you eliminate a major source of swamp crap ( which the current tax bill didn’t touch further demonstrating it’s just a giveaway). 

4) My neighbor doing rentals live in the house and gain a capital gain exemption.  That can easily be preserved.   

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5 hours ago, bluerules009 said:

Wages do not create jobs.  

Capital is the driver of the economy.  Wage earners are one of the stakeholders who benefit by the encouragement of capital investment in our economy.

Capital should not be taxed at all in any way.  There would be no wage earners, no government, no services, no businesses without capital.

Capital pays the freight for the whole economy.  Why would you discourage its use in the economy?

Lastly the whole premise that people can’t build a business by the sweat of their brow is false.   A country that provides them an equal opportunity to be successful as the trust fund baby is a country I want to live in.   

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1 hour ago, sactowndog said:

1) I’m not of the belief that chasing the lowest cost producer in the world benefits the US by outsourcing all jobs that can be digitized.      Then you don't believe in free trade and capitalism.  Which we already knew.

2) Capital gains taxes apply where you live not where you invest.  Wrong many countries including China have capital gains taxes.  If you make a profit on the sale of an asset in china you will pay capital gains in the U.S. and China.   The U.S. will let your write off the taxes paid in China though.   If you want to attract foreign investment lower the business income tax.   

3)  the carried interest exemption is used in real estate but if you change the corporate income tax they would restructure their transactions and you eliminate a major source of swamp crap ( which the current tax bill didn’t touch further demonstrating it’s just a giveaway). 

4) My neighbor doing rentals live in the house and gain a capital gain exemption.  That can easily be preserved.   Only if you are willing to live their 2 years.  Which isn't something that you can realistically do in an apartment building.

 

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