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RiverCityBronco

The Rise and Fall of BYU athletics

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6 hours ago, StanfordAggie said:

Trolling aside, is it true that Niumatalolo wanted the BYU job but they picked Sitaki instead? I was under the impression that Niumatalolo turned BYU down so they went to Sitaki as Plan B. If they turned picked an unproven coordinator over an experienced (and fairly successful) head coach, then I have to laugh even harder at their current situation.

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20 hours ago, MWC Tex said:

Much ado about nothing.

 

BYU made its decision and will either continue in Indy or drop football.   While being an AAC football affiliate may be intriguing for BYU, they still won't join a G5 conference.   

For better success, they need to separate the church from BYU but I doubt that is going to happen.

BYU is nothing without the church.  Being the Mormon Notre Dame has allowed them to be fairly selective, about equal to the middle level UC campuses or Big Ten schools, but that's literally the extent of any prestige associated with the place.  Without the church connection driving undergrad applications, what are they?  They're absolute shit as any kind of a serious research university or liberal arts college.  Church policies have long made the place absolutely toxic to top level faculty around the country.  Nobody, other than Mormons, are busting down their doors to get their doctorates or graduate degrees there.

SteelCityBlue

November 24th, 2018 at 9:10 PM ^

I'm looking forward to a new head coach who isn't a cud-chewing autistic retard.

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8 hours ago, StanfordAggie said:

Trolling aside, is it true that Niumatalolo wanted the BYU job but they picked Sitaki instead? I was under the impression that Niumatalolo turned BYU down so they went to Sitaki as Plan B. If they turned picked an unproven coordinator over an experienced (and fairly successful) head coach, then I have to laugh even harder at their current situation.

I watched the interview where Niumatalolo said he didn't want to leave Navy for byu. That he had a good thing going at Navy, I bet you he is sure glad he made that decision.

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15 hours ago, SleepingGiantsFan said:

In its infancy USC was very much a Methodist school and it remains pretty conservative politically but it dumped the religious affiliation decades ago in the interests of intellectual freedom and, frankly, athletics. To my knowledge although Notre Dame is still affiliated with the Catholic Church, the Church doesn't run the university. Particularly as the country becomes more and more secular, that is going to be a factor holding back the university.

Notre Dame is absolutely run by the church.  The President is still, and has always been, a priest.  In fact, one of the knocks against Notre Dame vis-a-vis the best Jesuit Catholic universities (Georgetown & BC) is that church doctrine has frequently impinged on academic freedom.

SteelCityBlue

November 24th, 2018 at 9:10 PM ^

I'm looking forward to a new head coach who isn't a cud-chewing autistic retard.

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Nothing in the piece we haven't discussed to death in this forum.

BYU made a poor decision based in greed and jealously. They need to be in a conference.  The MWC isn't what most of us would desire in terms of revenue and exposure. The way forward is to get better collectively. 

“Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.”

-Richard Feynman

"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators."

-P.J. O’Rourke

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4 hours ago, Victor Maitlin said:

BYU is nothing without the church.  Being the Mormon Notre Dame has allowed them to be fairly selective, about equal to the middle level UC campuses or Big Ten schools, but that's literally the extent of any prestige associated with the place.  Without the church connection driving undergrad applications, what are they?  They're absolute shit as any kind of a serious research university or liberal arts college.  Church policies have long made the place absolutely toxic to top level faculty around the country.  Nobody, other than Mormons, are busting down their doors to get their doctorates or graduate degrees there.

I've been saying the same thing to the zoobies for a long time, but they assume that I'm just a bitter anti-BYU troll. (I am definitely an anti-BYU troll, but that doesn't mean that I'm wrong about this stuff.) That said, I don't think BYU's academic freedom issues, as problematic as they may be, have much to do with BYU's inability to attract top-level faculty. BYU basically only hires Mormon faculty, and most of them would tow the party line pretty well regardless. And a biology professor probably doesn't care that she or he isn't allowed to discuss feminism or moral relativism in the classroom. BYU's biggest problem, in my opinion, is that they try to run the university on the cheap (both for athletics and academics). They pay their faculty very low salaries compared to peer institutions, so faculty usually don't accept jobs at BYU if they get a job offer elsewhere. Thus the quality of their faculty suffers. It's really that simple. They also actively discourage their faculty from applying for research grants and require their faculty to have heavy teaching loads. That's not entirely a bad thing. Undergraduate teaching gets the shaft at too many universities because they are so dependent on federal research grants to keep the lights on. But in my opinion BYU goes too far in the other direction. They are perfectly happy to hire a 50-year-old professor who hasn't written a paper or attended a conference in a decade if this professor can teach 5-6 classes per semester. You don't want a professor that will blow off their teaching responsibilities to spend more time in the lab, but you also don't want all your faculty to be reading from 30-year-old yellow lecture notes describing methods that were obsolete 10-15 years ago because they are oblivious to recent advances in the field. And I saw a lot of that at BYU.

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4 hours ago, NorCalCoug said:

What does KN have to do with anything?

But no, he wasn't offered the job.  I question how much mutual interest was there on either side tbh.

That was my impression as well. The article makes it sound like KN wanted the job but BYU chose Sitaki and Detmer because they didn't want BYU running the triple option. I was under the impression that KN made his lack of interest known to BYU, so they turned to Sitaki instead.

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14 hours ago, StanfordAggie said:

I love the way the zoobies have such a high opinion of themselves and constantly make themselves out to be a victim. "Everyone knows that we are P5-worthy. The only reason we didn't get invited is because the mean P5 conferences hate Mormons." Please. BYU's big problem isn't Mormonism but rather the fact that they just don't bring that much to the table. Why exactly is BYU P5-worthy? The idea that they have a "national following" is a myth. I enjoy pointing out that their bowl games have consistently drawn lower ratings than USU's bowl games over the psat 7-8 years. Their teams have generally been solid but not spectacular. If winning games made a school P5-worthy, Boise State has a much better claim than BYU. But BSU will probably never be invited to a P5 league as a result of their small home TV market and weak academics. Likewise BYU doesn't move the TV dial much, and their academics are very weak. The idea that anti-Mormon bigotry was the reason that the PAC-12 chose Utah over BYU was especially laughable. Athletically Utah had multiple major bowl wins, Sweet Sixteen appearances, and #1 draft picks. Plus the fact that Utah beats BYU every time they play. But athletics aside, Utah is a legitimate research university and BYU is a Bible college. Academics matter a lot to the PAC-12 presidents. The PAC-12 rejected Oklahoma largely because they were worried that the two Oklahoma schools would dilute the PAC-12's academic brand. And while the Oklahoma schools are second-tier research universities, they are at least research universities. But somehow if a conference that rejects Oklahoma also rejects BYU, it must be because they don't like Mormons. It couldn't possibly be that BYU's mediocre athletics aren't exciting enough to justify diluting the conference's academics. The schadenfreude I got from reading that article was really delicious.

Some call it bigotry, many would call it critical thinking...

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On 11/22/2017 at 9:50 AM, edluvar said:

Why not schedule them?   They are a de facto member of the conference without getting any of the monetary or bowl opportunities from the mwc.   

 

'Cause they took their ball & went home.  BLACKBALL!!!

 

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9 hours ago, NorCalCoug said:

Idiot

deny it all you want but utah with its medical school and large selection of phd offerings is most certainly a better fit academically in the pac then byu is.  It is not even close.  blaming everything on religious bias gets old and worn out.

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5 hours ago, StanfordAggie said:

That was my impression as well. The article makes it sound like KN wanted the job but BYU chose Sitaki and Detmer because they didn't want BYU running the triple option. I was under the impression that KN made his lack of interest known to BYU, so they turned to Sitaki instead.

The impression I got was that KN was unwilling to consider moving for the money BYU was willing to pay, and they preferred Sitake on the cheap to ponying up for KN . If they had gone at him hard and offered a salary commensurate with his experience and success,  I think he would have seriously considered it.

I'm a desperate man
Send lawyers, guns, and money
The shit has hit the fan

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3 hours ago, Billings said:

deny it all you want but utah with its medical school and large selection of phd offerings is most certainly a better fit academically in the pac then byu is.  It is not even close.  blaming everything on religious bias gets old and worn out.

Deny what?  If you think I read the Idiot's posts then you're sadly mistaken.  I have no clue what he wrote.

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6 hours ago, StanfordAggie said:

I've been saying the same thing to the zoobies for a long time, but they assume that I'm just a bitter anti-BYU troll. (I am definitely an anti-BYU troll, but that doesn't mean that I'm wrong about this stuff.) That said, I don't think BYU's academic freedom issues, as problematic as they may be, have much to do with BYU's inability to attract top-level faculty. BYU basically only hires Mormon faculty, and most of them would tow the party line pretty well regardless. And a biology professor probably doesn't care that she or he isn't allowed to discuss feminism or moral relativism in the classroom. BYU's biggest problem, in my opinion, is that they try to run the university on the cheap (both for athletics and academics). They pay their faculty very low salaries compared to peer institutions, so faculty usually don't accept jobs at BYU if they get a job offer elsewhere. Thus the quality of their faculty suffers. It's really that simple. They also actively discourage their faculty from applying for research grants and require their faculty to have heavy teaching loads. That's not entirely a bad thing. Undergraduate teaching gets the shaft at too many universities because they are so dependent on federal research grants to keep the lights on. But in my opinion BYU goes too far in the other direction. They are perfectly happy to hire a 50-year-old professor who hasn't written a paper or attended a conference in a decade if this professor can teach 5-6 classes per semester. You don't want a professor that will blow off their teaching responsibilities to spend more time in the lab, but you also don't want all your faculty to be reading from 30-year-old yellow lecture notes describing methods that were obsolete 10-15 years ago because they are oblivious to recent advances in the field. And I saw a lot of that at BYU.

 

6 hours ago, StanfordAggie said:

That was my impression as well. The article makes it sound like KN wanted the job but BYU chose Sitaki and Detmer because they didn't want BYU running the triple option. I was under the impression that KN made his lack of interest known to BYU, so they turned to Sitaki instead.

Idiot

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4 hours ago, GoState99755 said:

 

'Cause they took their ball & went home.  BLACKBALL!!!

 

Good for them.  The MWC doesn't give them anything other than games.  No bowl money or opportunities, no home for their b ball team here without football.   Let them bring fans and spend money.  

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25 minutes ago, edluvar said:

Good for them.  The MWC doesn't give them anything other than games.  No bowl money or opportunities, no home for their b ball team here without football.   Let them bring fans and spend money.  

 

Okay...if a conf school wants to be weak (¿WTF CSU-San Diego?), be weak in Sept.  ¿Why bend-over backwards in Oct & Nov messing-up our conf skeds?

CSU-Fresno -vs- El Juco (2x - back-to-back) is directly related to MWC schools playing YBU in Oct -&- Nov.

 

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