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I am Ram

Oopsie daisy! The Keystone is leaky-leaky

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11 minutes ago, SDSUfan said:

Cleaning surface contamination is pretty easy. Besides, crude oil is unsightly but relatively benign.

A lot of it simply evaporates. What's left is tar, more or less

That's what I heard too, but I wasn't confident volunteering that information.

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18 hours ago, NWRebel said:

I wouldn't worry about the pipeline destroying good land.  The land will be worthless once the Ogallala aquifer is tapped out.  

Portions of the Ogalla are tapped out or will be soon particularly in the Southern and central Plains.  Much of the Ogalla in Nebraska and south central South Dakota recharges still and is many many years if ever away from being depleted.  There's no doubt the aquifer has been managed poorly in the past and still is today.  That said the current pipeline lays over the Ogalla only in Nebraska and is east of the aquifer in KS, OK and TX.   Dryland farming, while less profitable is still very viable in central and especially eastern portions of the states where the pipeline runs.  The Ogalla drying up will not destroy the land or make it worthless in these areas.  The folks in western NE, KS, OK, TX and eastern CO are the ones that are and will really suffer land value losses as the aquifer is depleted in those areas but they are a long way away from the current XL pipeline path.

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14 hours ago, pokebball said:

How strong is the technology used in these clean ups?  How will this land be post clean up compared to how it was?

 

11 hours ago, SDSUfan said:

Cleaning surface contamination is pretty easy. Besides, crude oil is unsightly but relatively benign.

A lot of it simply evaporates. What's left is tar, more or less

 

Yeah cleaning up oil is pretty easy although it is expensive.   There will be no long term damage to something like this.   They will be forced to take the soil and burn it probably which is real expensive.  Even in water like the disaster in the gulf a few years ago the long term damage is non-existent.

What you morons don't know is oil used to be on the surface all over the place in this country.  There is probably oil deposits in small non-commercial amounts in Nebraska now.   There are thousands of oil seeps all over the ocean floor all the time.  Oil and water are pretty easy to separate because they tend not to mix.  '

Every one of those Nebraska farmers has an equipment yard with more oil, herbicide and pesticide contamination than ever leaked from that pipeline and because they are farmers they are exempt from all laws.   Every town in Nebraska probably has buried oil tanks that are leaking.

The whole thing is stupid.  Especially farmers complaining about pollution that is like Boise Fan complaining about taxes.

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How much land will 200,000 gallons impact? A long as it doesn't reach a water supply, I think any impact is rather insignificant.

Obviously, the problem is we can never know where a leak will occur, in many cases, the affected land can be cleared and restored will little or no long term damage. However, once it reaches water, all bets are off.

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13 hours ago, renoskier said:

How much land will 200,000 gallons impact? A long as it doesn't reach a water supply, I think any impact is rather insignificant.

Obviously, the problem is we can never know where a leak will occur, in many cases, the affected land can be cleared and restored will little or no long term damage. However, once it reaches water, all bets are off.

Not really, you may not know this quite obvious fact but water and oil do not mix well.   

Almost every reservoir in the country is contaminated with oil, if from nothing more than motor boats.  Most of it evaporates and the rest ends up on the shore or bottom as tar.

 

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On 11/17/2017 at 11:15 PM, bluerules009 said:

Yeah cleaning up oil is pretty easy although it is expensive.   There will be no long term damage to something like this.   They will be forced to take the soil and burn it probably which is real expensive.  Even in water like the disaster in the gulf a few years ago the long term damage is non-existent.

I'm not so sure about that. This is from two years ago:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bp-spill-anniversary/five-years-after-bp-oil-spill-some-gulf-oystermen-are-losing-hope-idUSKBN0NA0YE20150419

There is a theory that the spill has had a major negative impact on the microorganisms that filter feeders like oysters depend on. I just started reading about the topic, so I don't really know a lot about it. But I'll share what I find. It's important to understand the big picture of these disasters because the BP spill was probably not the last we have seen. The Gulf of Mexico is pretty +++++ed up as it is. 

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On 11/17/2017 at 11:44 AM, SDSUfan said:

Cleaning surface contamination is pretty easy. Besides, crude oil is unsightly but relatively benign.

A lot of it simply evaporates. What's left is tar, more or less

The pipeline piece that spilled is beneath the surface, though. What we are seeing on those pictures is probably just the proverbial tip of the iceberg. 200,000 gallons of oil have to go somewhere. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/17/us/keystone-pipeline-transcanada-leak.html

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43 minutes ago, I am Ram said:

I'm not so sure about that. This is from two years ago:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bp-spill-anniversary/five-years-after-bp-oil-spill-some-gulf-oystermen-are-losing-hope-idUSKBN0NA0YE20150419

There is a theory that the spill has had a major negative impact on the microorganisms that filter feeders like oysters depend on. I just started reading about the topic, so I don't really know a lot about it. But I'll share what I find. It's important to understand the big picture of these disasters because the BP spill was probably not the last we have seen. The Gulf of Mexico is pretty +++++ed up as it is. 

Oil constantly seeps into the ocean from the bottom all over the world naturally.

The gulf suffers more from farming and the associated chemicals that come down the mississippi river every year.

Even at this time there is very little visible damage to the gulf from that bp spill.   This is from a spill that did not really get cleaned up because we can't clean it.  This was from a spill that went on for many days because unlike the pipeline through Nebraska it was very hard to get too.   

Even comparing a transfer line spill to the BP spill is ridiculous because a transfer line spill almost always shuts off automatically and at the very least can be shut off when discovered easily at several different places.  It isn't under a whole bunch of water making it inaccessible.   Anyone with two feet and a key for access can shut down the pipeline.

 

https://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/2010/0802/Gulf-oil-spill-Not-as-bad-as-we-first-thought

"There's going to be a big damage-assessment study of this spill over the next 10 years," says LSU's Overton. "But if my assessment is close to right, it means our environment will come back fairly quickly and people's lifestyles will not be wiped out, that they'll be able to make a living off the northern Gulf and enjoy the recreational benefits of this body of water. We'll have to see."

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/clarifying-myths-and-misconceptions-about-gulf-oil-spill-180951136/

But the Gulf as an ecosystem was far from pristine before the spill. Some 41 percent of the continental U.S.— mainly fertilized farmland—drains down the Mississippi River into the Gulf of Mexico. This carries 1.7 million tons of nutrients (pdf) into the Gulf each year, causing massive growth of phytoplankton and plankton that consume all the oxygen out of the water. The massive growth forms a “dead zone” of low-oxygen water with little life near the bottom, averaging around 6,000 square miles in the Gulf. In the waters above the bottom, dead zones can cause reproductive problems in fish or, more frequently, just kill larvae and eggs outright. There are also other sources of pollution, such as oil leaks from vessels and toxins in runoff from land.
Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/clarifying-myths-and-misconceptions-about-gulf-oil-spill-180951136/#ZKhl15uPjU2g4X67.99
Give the gift of Smithsonian magazine for only $12! http://bit.ly/1cGUiGv
Follow us: @SmithsonianMag on Twitter

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2 hours ago, edluvar said:

How much does the keystone xl pipeline pay the us taxpayer?   Will gas prices drop at all?   Will they make enough to clean up all their messes?

Do you drive a car?  Turn on the lights?  Wear plastic clothing products? Live in a house? Eat plants or animals?

If you do any of the above, this is just another example of your hypocrisy.

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7 minutes ago, bluerules009 said:

Do you drive a car?  Turn on the lights?  Wear plastic clothing products? Live in a house? Eat plants or animals?

If you do any of the above, this is just another example of your hypocrisy.

So how much am I getting from the pipeline blue?  $ talks man.  

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5 minutes ago, edluvar said:

So how much am I getting from the pipeline blue?  $ talks man.  

Why should you get anything?  Other than the opportunity to purchase what you are already using.  What you would have no idea how to survive if it wasn't there for you to purchase.

What did you produce? 

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6 hours ago, bluerules009 said:

Why should you get anything?  Other than the opportunity to purchase what you are already using.  What you would have no idea how to survive if it wasn't there for you to purchase.

What did you produce? 

Oh gotcha.  So the price of gas will go down because of this pipeline.   How much?

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Really no excuse to have a big leak like that on a new pipeline.  They need to be fined and provide a real explanation and take measures to prevent happening somewhere else, if that requires different connectors or sensors etc.  Everytime there's a leak, the gov't gets X amount of oil as a fine.  

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10 hours ago, bluerules009 said:

Oil constantly seeps into the ocean from the bottom all over the world naturally.

The gulf suffers more from farming and the associated chemicals that come down the mississippi river every year.

Even at this time there is very little visible damage to the gulf from that bp spill.   This is from a spill that did not really get cleaned up because we can't clean it.  This was from a spill that went on for many days because unlike the pipeline through Nebraska it was very hard to get too.   

Even comparing a transfer line spill to the BP spill is ridiculous because a transfer line spill almost always shuts off automatically and at the very least can be shut off when discovered easily at several different places.  It isn't under a whole bunch of water making it inaccessible.   Anyone with two feet and a key for access can shut down the pipeline.

 

https://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/2010/0802/Gulf-oil-spill-Not-as-bad-as-we-first-thought

"There's going to be a big damage-assessment study of this spill over the next 10 years," says LSU's Overton. "But if my assessment is close to right, it means our environment will come back fairly quickly and people's lifestyles will not be wiped out, that they'll be able to make a living off the northern Gulf and enjoy the recreational benefits of this body of water. We'll have to see."

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/clarifying-myths-and-misconceptions-about-gulf-oil-spill-180951136/

But the Gulf as an ecosystem was far from pristine before the spill. Some 41 percent of the continental U.S.— mainly fertilized farmland—drains down the Mississippi River into the Gulf of Mexico. This carries 1.7 million tons of nutrients (pdf) into the Gulf each year, causing massive growth of phytoplankton and plankton that consume all the oxygen out of the water. The massive growth forms a “dead zone” of low-oxygen water with little life near the bottom, averaging around 6,000 square miles in the Gulf. In the waters above the bottom, dead zones can cause reproductive problems in fish or, more frequently, just kill larvae and eggs outright. There are also other sources of pollution, such as oil leaks from vessels and toxins in runoff from land.
Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/clarifying-myths-and-misconceptions-about-gulf-oil-spill-180951136/#ZKhl15uPjU2g4X67.99
Give the gift of Smithsonian magazine for only $12! http://bit.ly/1cGUiGv
Follow us: @SmithsonianMag on Twitter

Yes, farming and industrial runoff are indeed a much bigger problem. Very few people are aware how much crap we are still pumping into the oceans, intentionally and unintentionally. Thanks for those links!

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1 hour ago, edluvar said:

Oh gotcha.  So the price of gas will go down because of this pipeline.   How much?

Is your beef with the pipeline or with the shit coming out of the ground?

If it's the former, do you think there's a safer mode of transportation?

If it's the latter, be content that your obstruction efforts are making it somewhat less viable to extract the resource.

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