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Is It Time To Resume the Korean War?

Is It Time to Resume the Korean War?  

26 members have voted

  1. 1. Is it time to resume the Korean War?

    • Yes, diplomacy hasn't worked
      2
    • Not yet, there's still a chance diplomacy will work
      5
    • No, avoid war at all cost
      19


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3 hours ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

It's not fair to say we've gotten nowhere with coercive diplomacy. Cuba doesn't have an arsenal of Soviet nukes in part because they were blockaded. Iran was heavily sanctioned and does not currently have nuclear weapons despite wanting them for decades. Libya too was brought to the negotiating table through diplomacy, and it abandoned its nuclear program. Blockades and sanctions haven't won us friendship, that's true. But they've done a pretty good job so far at maintaining the highest commandment in the game of international relations, though shalt not enrich uranium. It's just that North Korea seems intent on transgressing the rule and breaking the current rules of the game for good.

I don't mean to pooh pooh free trade. I love free trade. I left the Republican Party in part for its turn away from free trade. It's just hard not to be pessimistic about the situation, and an appeal to mutual trade seems Munich optimistic. North Korea seems intent on calling every bluff. Once they do that and get away with it, the rest of the world will take notice and do the same. Maybe a world order not based on American Hegemony will be fine. But I doubt it.

It is pretty fair to say we have gotten nowhere with coercive diplomacy.  Our situation with Cuba almost destroyed the world and they are still under the same government they were 50 years ago.  North Korea has been a total disaster, they not only have nukes they are in a position where we can't touch them.   Iran was able to negotiate a deal with us that allows them nuclear weapons in a decade and the government of religion will not be replaced.   Then we get to our difficulties in Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Syria, etc....   Coercive diplomacy has been a disaster.

 

It is also pretty fair to say when we have traded like for instance with China and with all our other allies.  We moderate their governments and tie them to us with their own self interest.  

 

Trade is the only safe action we can take towards North Korea that has any chance at success.

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17 hours ago, bluerules009 said:

No good options on this one.

Exactly. The North has more artillery along the DMZ than we can take out. Those guns are in well hidden and hardened positions. The artillery is more of a threat than fat boy's missiles. The second we do anything North Korea will unleash the biggest fire mission the World has ever seen. Every inch of Seoul has been pre-registered. This will not turn out well for anyone.

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50 minutes ago, Joe from WY said:

Honestly trade is the most effective way to effect change some place. Take Iran, for example. If instead of trying to isolate them further and slap sanctions back on, that's not going to help us. It's going to arguably harm us, as Boeing and other aerospace firms are going to lose out on large lucrative deals signed with the Iranian government when the sanctions were lifted after the deal was made. Not to mention that sanctions give a rallying point to whatever despot is in charge to blame all the problems on. (Ex: "Things would be great if those god damn yankee dogs didn't slap us with sanctions!") 

But if we didn't +++++ around with that, and instead flooded them with things like blue jeans and internet poker, they'd love us. And flooded with enough American garbage and it might start a revolution. 

I think trade is the perfect strategy for Iran and is "meh" for NK. Their internal markets are so unfree it doesn't really matter whether we freely trade with the authorities there

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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17 minutes ago, happycamper said:

I think trade is the perfect strategy for Iran and is "meh" for NK. Their internal markets are so unfree it doesn't really matter whether we freely trade with the authorities there

I don't think there is a perfect strategy for either one.   One might have pointed to China's internal markets in 1972 and said the same thing.

Trade doesn't immediately kill a million south koreans and might overt a future problem with North Korea.

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North Korea is a Japan/South Korea/China/Asia problem.  We should be encouraging them to come up with the strategy to deal with North Korea and play a supporting role backed up by our military.  They need to be responsible for doing all the "saber rattling" and diplomacy with NK...not us.

Park a couple of nuclear subs off the NK coast and that maintains the balance of power and discourage proliferation.  Why does the USA always think it needs to be right in the middle of shit around the world and be the point person on everything?  I don't see France, Australia, or China thinking they have be nosy and all up in every conflict throughout the world.  The UN and the Asians need to be in charge of the strategy and we should be just there to be a credible deterrent.  We will have a lot smaller target on our backs if we stop interfering with other countries so much. 

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The Chinese are our real enemies we should never forget that. A heavily a nuclear armed japan is the answer then you would see China take some action. Japan could make 150 or more nuclear short range missiles in a year if they wanted to. Neville Chamberlain crap will not work I would remove our forces from South Korea tell kImmy boy there were out, but if you attack we will unleash the Kraken "Polaris missiles." AS for Iran israel has no choice they will have to obliterated them if they get the nuke.

"Everything that does not destroy you makes you stronger except Aztec Football "

Freddy Nietzsche

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2 hours ago, steveem said:

The Chinese are our real enemies we should never forget that. A heavily a nuclear armed japan is the answer then you would see China take some action. Japan could make 150 or more nuclear short range missiles in a year if they wanted to. Neville Chamberlain crap will not work I would remove our forces from South Korea tell kImmy boy there were out, but if you attack we will unleash the Kraken "Polaris missiles." AS for Iran israel has no choice they will have to obliterated them if they get the nuke.

Japan will never make nukes.

"BYU is like a 4-year-long church dance with 20,000 chaperones all waiting for you to forget to shave one morning so they can throw you out." -GeoAg

l.jpg

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Japan will never make nukes. that would have been my opinion yes but now they are seriously discussing it.

"Everything that does not destroy you makes you stronger except Aztec Football "

Freddy Nietzsche

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14 minutes ago, bluerules009 said:

I expect Japan has access to nukes right now.

I guess I should clarify.  Japan will never openly construct nuclear weapons as they would have a civil revolt if they did so.

"BYU is like a 4-year-long church dance with 20,000 chaperones all waiting for you to forget to shave one morning so they can throw you out." -GeoAg

l.jpg

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18 hours ago, Akkula said:

North Korea is a Japan/South Korea/China/Asia problem.  We should be encouraging them to come up with the strategy to deal with North Korea and play a supporting role backed up by our military.  They need to be responsible for doing all the "saber rattling" and diplomacy with NK...not us.

Park a couple of nuclear subs off the NK coast and that maintains the balance of power and discourage proliferation.  Why does the USA always think it needs to be right in the middle of shit around the world and be the point person on everything?  I don't see France, Australia, or China thinking they have be nosy and all up in every conflict throughout the world.  The UN and the Asians need to be in charge of the strategy and we should be just there to be a credible deterrent.  We will have a lot smaller target on our backs if we stop interfering with other countries so much. 

oh, so you want to give Japan and SK nukes and let them deal with it?  You want to increase nuclear proliferation apparently.  Should we put nukes on Guam too? 
I recall the US has a treaty with Japan and S.Korea.  Should we tear that up too?   And don't answer with Trump said blah blah blah.   

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31 minutes ago, pokerider said:

oh, so you want to give Japan and SK nukes and let them deal with it?  You want to increase nuclear proliferation apparently.  Should we put nukes on Guam too? 
I recall the US has a treaty with Japan and S.Korea.  Should we tear that up too?   And don't answer with Trump said blah blah blah.   

I wouldn't mind putting nukes on Guam. It's a critical junction in the Pacific; you could put them on Anderson AFB or that Naval Base at the south end of the island whose name escapes me at the moment, or in the valley there by Mt. Lam Lam. 

At the very least, it might deter even the Chinese from some sort of rash move (which I don't think they'd ever do, but still...). 

I'd even re-arm the Japanese. What's the worst that could happen? They won't attack us again; we're too good of trade partners, but they should be able to defend themselves. Why not? 

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3 hours ago, bluerules009 said:

I expect Japan has access to nukes right now.

well they have a ton of fissionable material and the technology I am sure is way beyond the simple tech needed for a bomb

"Everything that does not destroy you makes you stronger except Aztec Football "

Freddy Nietzsche

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On 10/17/2017 at 2:59 PM, pokerider said:

oh, so you want to give Japan and SK nukes and let them deal with it?  You want to increase nuclear proliferation apparently.  Should we put nukes on Guam too? 
I recall the US has a treaty with Japan and S.Korea.  Should we tear that up too?   And don't answer with Trump said blah blah blah.   

What part of "Park a couple of nuclear subs off the NK coast and that maintains the balance of power and discourage proliferation." Did you two not understand?!?"

Did you even read or did you just decide to criticize what you had imagined you wanted me to say?

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3 hours ago, Akkula said:

What part of "Park a couple of nuclear subs off the NK coast and that maintains the balance of power and discourage proliferation." Did you two not understand?!?"

Did you even read or did you just decide to criticize what you had imagined you wanted me to say?

@mugtang

For some reason MWCboard thought that Akkula was quoting me instead of pokerider in the little notifications thingy. fwi

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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